Yamo

This is just what I'm going to do. Check my long post a way up for my first draft of such a system.

Yes, a long as the GM agrees that all the Powers are related enough by special effect to make sense in one and the player is willing to accept the drawback of an EC (vulnerability to negative Adjustment Powers).

Telepathy Power. Telepathy or Mind Link Powers. Mind Control Power. Entangle Power with the Based On Ego Combat Value Advantage. Major Transform Power defined as affecting "Target's Memories" with the Based On Ego Combat Value Advantage. Ego Attack Power with the Does BODY Advantage. Lockpicking Skill with the Ranged Advantage. Major Transform Power defined as "Inanimate Matter To Inanimate Matter With Various Changes" with the Based On Ego Combat Value Advantage and the Requires A Power: Mentalism Skill Roll Limitation. Depends. If you bought each Power invidually, you might be looking at a Superheroic character in the 350+ point range. If you didn't want to go that high, you could either add more Limitations or buy all the Powers in a Power Framework like a Multipower or an Elemental Control. In that case, you could definitely do it in the 150-200 point Heroic range. A lot also depends on how strong you want the Powers to be. 5d6 of Telepathy in HERO is a lot different than 10d6 or 20d6. The numbers I'm quoting assume a considerable amount of Power.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43787 It's a long, sad thread.

That's part of the point. As I said, I don't LIKE spells with more than -1/2 or so of Limitations. I prefer stuff from the "fire and forget" school. Gestures and Incantations are the extent of what I want to be mandatory for any spell. More than that makes magic feel too "buggy" to me. Too easy to foul up and too limited for use in combat. It's just a personal preference. This doesn't mean that I'd never use any other Limitations in building a spell that a PC might have the chance to learn in game, just that I don't want PCs to feel like they NEED to water their own spells down with -2 or more worth of Limitations until they feel like total gimps. True. Fixed.

Okay, how does this sound? 1. All magic spells must be bought as fixed slots in a Magic Multipower. The Multipower is limited to a maximum number of slots equal to the mage's "natural" (i.e. unmodified by spells, magic items, or any Power) INT and once purchased, slots may not be "forgotten" or otherwise abandoned to make room for new ones. Lost INT will not result in lost slots, however. All slots must cost END, even if only to activate (a +1/4 Advantage on Powers that naturally cost END and a -1/4 Limitation on ones that don't). All slots must take the Gestures and Incantations Limitations. No Limitations (or Adders/Advantages) on the Magic Multipower Reserve itself are permitted except those signifying specialization (see below). 2. The Magic Multipower draws END from the mage's Mana Pool, an END Reserve that recovers approximately 1/8 of its value per hour the mage sleeps. The amount of END in a mage's Mana Pool may never exceed the Active Points in his or her Magic Multipower Reserve. The Mana Pool's REC must always be as close to 1/8th of its total END as possible, although the player may elect to purchase the greater value if the two closest whole numbers are equally removed from exactly 1/8th (as in the case of 2 REC versus 3 REC on a 20 END Mana Pool). Other than the mandatory degrees of Limited Recovery and Slow Recovery (which do not reduce its cost), no other Limitations (or Adders/Advantages) on the Mana Pool are permitted. 3. Mages may specialize in particular forms of magic, at the expense of limiting their ability to master other forms. In game terms, this takes the form of a -1/4 or -1/2 Limitation on the Magic Multipower Reserve. This Limitation can be applied only to the cost of the Reserve, not to individual slots. A mage whose specialization prevents him or her from learning particular types of spells is also prevented from created any type of magic item that includes "prohibited" types of magic. Some examples of specialization Limitations: -1/4: Only Necromancy And Fire Magic, Only Elemental (Earth, Wind, Water, and Fire) Magic, No Divination Magic, No Illusion Magic -1/2: Only Necromancy, Only Fire Magic, Only Nature Magic, Only Illusion Magic 4. Spells that persist after the points allocated to them are shifted to another Multipower slot can be built with the Uncontrolled Advantage, provided they meet with GM approval. All such spells must have either a set duration or a set means of deactivation (or both, if the GM rules so). For example, a Force Field spell might deactivate automatically after five minutes while a flame-based Uncontrolled RKA spell might cease automatically after three Turns and be able to be doused prior to that with water or rolling on the ground. In the case of spells with little tactical (or "munchkin") value, such as a continual torchlight spell that a mage wishes to use to light his laboratory, the allowable duration or deactivation clause might be extremely liberal at GM's discretion (a duration measured in months or years, perhaps). 5. To build spells that will be "given" to others with the Usable By Other or Usable Simultaneously Advantages, first use the Differing Modifiers method to construct the spell as the target will use it. It should be both Uncontrolled (with a set duration and/or common means of deactivation) and 0 END. Use the cost of this spell as the base cost for the slot prior to applying any modifiers that the mage must employ when initially casting the spell. The mage is still required to pay END and abide by the required Gestures and Incantations Limitations when building the final spell. 6. All proposed new spell slots are subject to GM veto or modification without exception. In addition to the player securing GM approval, a mage character must do the following to add a new spell slot: a) Have a Magic Multipower Reserve at least equal to the new spell's Active Point cost. Have experience points sufficient to purchase the new Multipower slot. c) Have an "open" slot available (i.e. have less existing slots than his current "natural" INT). d) Spend a period of weeks equal to the Active Points of the spell divided by ten (minimum of one week) in study of an existing spell (one learned via a tome, scroll, the tutalage of another mage, etc) or a period of weeks equal to the Active Points of the spell divided by five (minimum of two weeks) in research on a new one (created from scratch by the mage). Creation of a new spell also requires access to rare components and an appropriate magic library and laboratory with costs and difficulty to acquire and maintain such determined by the GM. e) To successfully learn an existing spell, the mage must succeed in a a KS: Magic Roll with a -1 penality for each ten Active Points in the spell (minumum of -1). To successfully learn a new spell, the mage must succeed in a KS: Magic Roll with a -1 penality for each five Active Points in the spell (minimum of -2). If this roll is failed, one experience point is expended and the caster may try again to learn the spell after a rest period of one week. No other Skills (and no other uses of the same Skill by other parties) may be used as Complementary Skills for purposes of these rolls. 7. All proposed magic items are subject to GM veto or modification without exception. In addition to the player securing GM approval, a mage character must do the following to attempt to create a magic item: a) A mage may not create any magic item with a total Active Point cost greater than his or her Magic Multipower Reserve. In the case of "permanent" magic items, the mage must possess experience points sufficient to purchase the item. c) Potions, scrolls, and other "disposable" magic items with three or less Charges can be built using a Magic Multipower slot (learned as a normal spell) with the Trigger Advantage and appropriate rare and expensive Expendable Foci. d) Weapons, armor, and other "permanent" magic items or magic items with more than three Charges do not utilize a dedicated Magic Multipower slot to create, but rather are effectively purchased as individual Powers seperate from a mage's Magic Multipower. All such items must take the Independent and Focus Limitations and also require rare or expensive raw materials (which will be expended during the creation process) as determined by the GM. e) "Disposable" items require one full day to create per ten Active Points in their combined Powers (minimum of one day). "Permanent" items require one full week to create per ten active points in their combined Powers (minimum of one week). Only Powers representing "disposable" items may take this time increment as an Extra Time Limitation. f) Creation of any magic item requires a successful PS: Mage Roll with a penality of -1 per ten Active Points in the item's combined Powers for a "disposable" item (minimum of -1) or a penalty of -1 per five Active Points in the item's combined Powers for a "permanent" item (minimum of -2). A failure of this roll results in the loss of all raw materials required for creation of the item. In the case of an Independent magic item, failure of this roll also results in the loss of one experience point and imposes at least a one week rest period before enchantment can be attempted again. No other Skills (and no other uses of the same Skill by other parties) may be used as Complementary Skills for purposes of these rolls. 8. Magic-related Skills: a) The Power: Magic Skill is to be used primarily as the default Required Skill Roll for Magic Multipower spells (unless another type of roll is specified). Magical Skill Versus Skill contests between mages also use this Skill by default. It is also used to adjucate minor "cantrip" effects too trivial to merit expenditure of character points (lighting campfires, blowing colored smoke rings, making pancakes flip themselves, etc). Even characters without a Magic Multipower proper might purchase it for a little bit of extra flavor (representing something like untrained "latent" magical talent or the barest rudiments of formal magical training). The KS: Magic Skill is used primarily to adjucate success or failure with regard to attempts by mages to learn new spells. It can also be used, however, to recall bits and pieces of magical theory or lore in the matter of a standard KS. c) The PS: Mage Skill is used to determine success or failure of magic item creation. 9. All starting mage characters in my 50 + 25 campaign will be required to purchase their Powers with one of the following package deal: Apprentice Mage Package Deal Skills: KS: Magic, Total Cost: 3 points Power: Magic (INT-Based), Total Cost: 3 points PS: Mage, Total Cost: 3 points Powers: Mana Pool: Endurance Reserve (20 END, 3 REC; powers Magic Multipower) (5 Active Points), Limited Recovery (only when character is sleeping; -0), Slow Recovery (hourly; -0), Total Cost: 5 points Magic: 20-point Multipower Reserve (20 Active Points), Total Cost: 20 points Six points of spell slots for Magic Multipower Total Cost Of Package: 40 points Apprentice Specialist Mage Package Deal I Skills: KS: Magic, Total Cost: 3 points Power: Magic (INT-Based), Total Cost: 3 points PS: Mage, Total Cost: 3 points Powers: Mana Pool: Endurance Reserve (20 END, 3 REC; powers Magic Multipower) (5 Active Points), Limited Recovery (only when character is sleeping; -0), Slow Recovery (hourly; -0), Total Cost: 4 points Magic: 20-point Multipower Reserve (20 Active Points), Limited Power (Specialization Limitation Of Player's Choice; -1/4), Total Cost: 16 points Six points of spell slots for Magic Multipower Total Cost Of Package: 36 points Apprentice Specialist Mage Package Deal II Skills: KS: Magic, Total Cost: 3 points Power: Magic (INT-Based), Total Cost: 3 points PS: Mage, Total Cost: 3 points Powers: Mana Pool: Endurance Reserve (20 END, 3 REC; powers Magic Multipower) (5 Active Points), Limited Recovery (only when character is sleeping; -0), Slow Recovery (hourly; -0), Total Cost: 5 points Magic: 20-point Multipower Reserve (20 Active Points), Limited Power (Specialization Limitation Of Player's Choice; -1/2), Total Cost: 13 points Six points of spell slots for Magic Multipower Total Cost Of Package: 33 points

It looks interesting, but it's just too "house ruley" for me. I always maintain that if I need to do that much whole cloth additions and radical tweaking of a system, odds are there's already another system out there that does what I want out of the box without the inelegant kludges. I think I'm going to stick with all 100% "legal" stuff from FREd exclusively. No new Characteristics and so forth. If that's not workable, I'll just switch to another system. The problem isn't so much what I want to do as how hard it is to balance character that can do it with those that can't. Here's some example of attack spells: Starting spell: Fire Arrow: RKA 1d6+1 (20 Active Points), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Total Cost: 13 points Low/mid-power spell: Mage Bolt: RKA 1d6, AVLD (defense is Power Defense; +1 1/2) (37 Active Points), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Total Cost: 25 points Mid-power spell: Fireball: RKA 2d6, Area Of Effect (3" Radius; +1) (60 Active Points), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Total Cost: 40 points High-power spell: Lightning Storm: RKA 3d6, Indirect (always comes from the sky above; +1/2)), Area Of Effect (7" Radius, Selective Target; +1 1/4), (124 Active Points), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Power: Only Outdoors (-1/2), Total Cost: 62 points Ultra high-power spell: Hellfire Vortex: RKA 4d6, NND (defense is any form of Desolidification or being a demon or other creature of Hell; +1), Does BODY (+1), Area Of Effect (18" Radius; +1) (240 Active Points), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Total Cost: 160 points In other words, the most powerful mages in the world can take out an army as easily as an apprentice mage can take out a goblin. The problem is, it should take each of the four spellcasters that use these spells the same amount of time and effort to master each one, their abilities all being equal relative to the task in each case. In each case, it would ideally take no more than two or three game sessions. In HERO, using a "one spell = one Power" system, it might take literally years at the standard rates of experience gain for the ultra high-powered mage to learn Hellfire Vortex. In D&D, for example, it tends to take a similar amount of time for a wizard character to advance to 18th level and add Wish to his spellbook as it did for him to advance to 2nd level and add Magic Missile. Sure, he needs a lot more experience points, but he's fighting tougher monsters, so the required quantity accumulates just as fast. It balances out, more or less, because the spells are arbitrarily "costed" within the system, not accounted for with objectively-measured points. Not so in HERO. In HERO, if the Wish spell costs the wizard 200 points, it's just not fair to not also give 200 points to the fighter, even if this means making fighters in the campaign much more powerful than you intended. In D&D, the wizard can gain the Wish spell without the fighter increasing his power to the degree that he would in HERO if the point cost of the spell was awarded to both character in experience points and it's still balanced because the system is set up to make it so. In Heroic level HERO, however, the Power-heavy character will always cost exponentially more than the character that's all Characteristics, Talents, and CSLs. A 20th level D&D wizard might be a 1500 point-character easily (using the single spell = single Power system). A 20th level D&D fighter would be maybe 500 at most. Use something like a VPP, a Multipower, or an EC for the spells and you end up with a problem just as bad: Two 500-point characters, one of which is actually effectively a 1500-point one. What's the solution?

I am doing CRAZY here. I simply cannot get a Fantasy HERO game going and I'm this close to just giving up. I just can't find a satisfying way to do magic! 1. Individual spells: Too expensive. Unless I load everything down with Limitations until it's weak and buggy as hell. I don't want ANY Limitations on my magic except Gestures and Incantations. I hate mages that feel like gimps because they're loaded down with -3 (or more) worth of Limitations on every spell. Energy Blast 8d6 with a decent AoE (what I would consider a good MID-POWER spell) is still a whopping 40 points with those Limitations. Do you have any idea how long it takes a Heroic character to save up 40 points? "Sure you can have a new spell...After ten more advantures!" And if you want to blow up castles with a gesture, summon demon lords, or turn an army into toads, you're just out of luck, unless you want to play a year or so in real time just to accumulate the experience to buy a single spell. 2. Multipower: Too cheap by far. Beginning mages end up being able to buy effective spells for ridiculous costs (like one point for an Autofire RKA). 3. Elemental Control: Too expensive. It's the bit about the points in each slot having to at least equal the points in the base EC that make this unviable. Even at half price, spells with real costs over 40 or so are still too expensive to be practical in a Heroic game. 4. Variable Point Pool: Too expensive, too abusive, and too slow in play. Even if you limit it to only pre-approved spells, the "Cosmic" Advantages required to make it as useful as I'd like in combat still adds a massive +2 to the cost. How can I have a decent 100 point starting mage when basic proficiency with magic (say, a meager 20-point VPP) is going to run him 90 points? And improving it would take ages and probably just lead to the frustrated player giving up an leaving for a system where he can at gets better at magic on a regular basis. If I go with a too expensive method, mages advance ridiculously slowly and are pathetic in a fight compared to their comrades (i.e. the warrior just bought All Combat CSLs with the 40 points you wasted on a AoE energy blast that won't even knock out most targets). A too expensive method, and the opposite is true (i.e. the mage just bought four highly useful spells with the same 8 points the fighter wasted on his one puny CSL). So, anyway, I'm this close to just saying "HERO doesn't work for fantasy. Period." and going back to D&D or something. What can I do? I just want a system where mages advance in magical power at about the same rate they do in most fantasy rpgs. Is that too much to ask? HERO does everything either ridiculously fast or glacially slow and either way there's no balance whatsoever with non-Power-heavy characters. IS THERE NO WAY TO BALANCE MAGES!!?!?! :(

I voted as suggested, but I do have one little quibble with the guidelines. I can understanding wanting all the write-in votes to match in each catagory for solidarity's sake, but Star HERO was EASILY and VASTLY superior to Champions as a pure gaming suppliment. I really think Hero Games should be highlight nothing but its best if it's going to do a write-in campaign.

From the Rules FAQ: Um, okay. I don't like that ruling, but okay. So the question is this: How would I legally build an attack like the one described? I'm thinking of an attack that works kind of like a contagious disease, where anyone exposed became a "carrier" and would pass it on to anyone that that passed within a few feet ad infinitum. Is this possible, or would I need some kind of new "Extra Sticky" Advantage?

I would use a Physical Limitation. Maybe something like "All Incoming Attacks Are Based On The Attackers' OCV Or EVC, Whichever Is Greater."

They do, to an extent. You don't pay points for the windows, doors, roof, floors, ordinary furnature, insulation, heat, air conditioning, bathroom fixtures, and so on for your base. You also don't pay points for things like mundane monitors, input devices (mice, keyboards, voice recognition, etc), and such on your computers. There's a whole lot of "free" elements assumed with computers and bases.

For potions, magic scrolls, and other "one shot" items, I would use Trigger and rely on rare and expensive Expendable Foci as the balancing factor. For anything with a "permanent" enchantment, I would require Independent without exception.

Check the description for the Real Weapon Limitation on page 328 of HERO 5th. Problem solved. I do hope you don't mean stats for a god. Oy! Leave that nonsense in D&D where it belongs, I say. I would prefer that HERO not trod that path at all and leave the Munchkin Monster Manuals (aka god stat books) to WotC. If it has stats, you can kill it. The last thing I need are HERO munchkins being officially encouraged to tell me the story of the time their 4000-point dark elf barbarian beat Thor to death with his own hammer. I get enough of that from the D&Ders, thanks.

I'm trying to figure out a way to do a Power that activates every time X happens. For example: a) Every time the character takes 2d6 steps when outdoors, lightning randomly strikes somewhere within a set radius around him. Every time the character sneezes, the person closest to him turns to stone. c) Every time the character is touched, a random demon from Hell is Summoned. I thought of using Trigger, but there's two problems with that: 1. Since the effects I considered were mostly negative, it's really not likely that the character would ever choose to "set up" the Trigger for them to begin with. 2. Even when the effect isn't negative, Trigger requires an action to set up again, so if the triggering action took place more than once before the character had his next Phase, the Power wouldn't activate again after the first time, which contradicts the concept (the concept being that X always causes Y). In this case, is No Conscious Control actually what I'm looking for? Would something like "No Conscious Control (automatically activates every time character takes 2d6 steps outdoors/sneezes/is touched; -2)" be the appropriate way to do something like this? I'm thinking it might be good for a mostly negative effect, but how to do a Trigger-type effect for a beneficial effect that doesn't require active setup every time?

Of course, you need to add the following Everyman Powers: First off, nobody EVER complains when you walk into their home and start taking stuff. Don't Mind Me... Mind Control 10d6, Telepathic (+1/4), Persistant (+1/2), Area of Effect (11" Radius; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (162 Active Points), Always On (-1/2), Set Effect ("Ignore me while I rob you blind"; -1/2), Total Cost: 81 Points It's absolutely vital for proper genre emulation that the PCs be attacked every few paces by random monsters that they can can never see beforehand. Pointless Random Battles: Summon Up To 1000-Points Of Random Monsters Determined By GM, Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (500 Active Points), No Conscious Control (automatically activates every time character takes 3d6 steps; -2), Violent (-3/4), Summoned Being(s) Must Inhabit Locale (-1/2), Limited Power: Doesn't Work In Towns (-0), Total Cost: 118 Points You can always tell how bad somebody is hurt in combat (or how effectively they're healed) because huge numbers fly out of their heads broadcasting this information to the world! Number Cascade: Sight Group Images 1" Radius, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points), No Conscious Control (automatically activates whenever character's BODY/STUN increase or decrease in combat; -2), No Range (-1/2), Set Effect (only to display amount by which character's BODY/STUN increase or decrease in combat; -1), Total Cost: 3 Points Okay, so I'm not fully serious with these, but who says HERO can't go that extra mile to emulate a genre, eh?

Let's say a character buys Force Field with Area of Effect (Radius). Since the "force" is defined as "hugging" what it protects rather closely, it would presumably fill the entire area around the user, out to the edge of the AoE (unlike a Force Wall, where the space between the Wall and the user is unaffected). So what happens to other characters and objects in that area when it's activated? Are they "pushed" to the edge of the Force Field? If so, what would the effective STR of the push be? Are they trapped in place by the Force Field surrounding them (an Entangle-like effect)?

Well, it limits it in that it can't be applied to any non-bow RKA. I could see it reducing it to -1/4, but the Advantage as written is objectively inferior to one that could apply to any RKA, hence the Limitation. I think you're somewhat unclear on the function (indeed the point) of naked Advantages. It would indeed work on any bow as written (although that bow would be limited to doing 2d6 damage at most).

This is one of those cases where there's just a BIG difference between Heroic and Superheroic. Also, as a GM, I would consider all naked Advantages to be "caution sign" Powers by default. They can be fair, balanced, and fun, but, as you pointed out, the strong potential for abuse is there.

Swallow: Special effect of Grab. Eating bad guy and gaining powers: Extra Dimensional Movement UAA Only Versus Grabbed Opponents + big Cosmic VPP. Spitting bad guy against wall: Special effect of Throw following Grab. Might be fun to give Kirby 100 STR only for Grabs and Throws if you use this method.

Let's say you want to build an elf for your Fantasy HERO game that can fire arrows from a bow much faster than a normal archer. In other words, you want to be able to apply Autofire (3 Shots; +1/4) to any bow he uses. First, assume that bows in your campaign equate to 1-2d6 RKAs. Using the highest range you want to be able to apply the Advantage to, 2d6 in this case, you figure out how much the Autofire would add to the cost. RKA 2d6 is 30 Active Points normally, and with the 1/4 Advantage that increases to 37. Difference: 7 points. That's the Active Point cost of your naked Advantage. Since the naked Advantage is considered a Power unto itself, you can place further Advantages, Limitations, and such on it at this point to further refine your concept. When all is said and done, you have this: Rapid-fire archery: Autofire (3 Shots) for up to RKA 2d6 (7 Active Points), Limited Power: Bows Only (-1/2), Total Cost: 5 Points Make sense?

D'oh! I thought the rule was saying "no division at all" and thus the Taurus Summon would be 112 AP. Oops! Disregard this thread, I guess.

Okay, so according to Ultimate Vehicle, you calculate the cost of a vehicle Summon based on the total points in the vehicle, not the total points divided by five. And the +1 Amicable Advantage is mandatory. Huh? Using that method, it costs well over 100 points to summon a freakin' Ford Taurus! Does this seem a little silly to anyone else? Or does anyone seriously contend that the ability to wave your hand and make a mid-sized sedan appear is as useful as a 20+d6 Energy Blast, a 7 or 8d6 KA, a small Cosmic VPP, an "anything to anything" Transform, etc? Is this some kind of misguided attempt to prevent players from Summoning Star HERO warships, or something? Well, since even that would cost something like 1100 points with this method, they've arguably gone too far there, too! Where's the balance here exactly? It's silly! A Ford assembly line would have a higher Active Point cost than a nuclear missile launcher.

1. Never let the players know exactly what's going on or exactly what will happen next. If they think they're in control, they won't be afraid. 2. Always stack the odds against them, but allow good thinking to even them out at least a little. In horror, it's the smart, not the strong, that survive. High STR doesn't matter one whit if you're dumb enough to go investigate the mysterious noise eminating from the darkened basement alone. 3. If they slip up, KILL THEM. No matter how good the GM is at plotting, pacing, or narration, horror just doesn't work without the specter of a high body count dogging the PCs' every move. A protective GM is the equivilent of a "benevolent universe" as far as they're concerned, and that notion is just as toxic to horror gaming as it is to horror films or literature. Coddling the PCs and fudging in their favor might work in a heroic genre, but it should be very, very rare in horror.

Tomorrow morning? Cool.