Duke Bushido

Really? Where you the guy that punches the cheeseburgers so they are nice and flat when I unwrap them? Yo, @Chris Goodwin: Tell them what my daughter Noisy told you about Cracker Barrel!

It depends on your SPD. Consult the chart for your Phase and ask the GM which Segment it is.

You'd have been better off without it, Sir. I am amazed at how many traffic accidents are caused locally be people desperate to get two ounced of dessicated vaguely-animal product mixed in with three ounces of MSG.... They are literally doinf thousands of dollars in gamage annually in a fight to get something that tastes foul and I suspect is actively poisonous.

And,if you can't handle Waffle House, there's Denny's: the Waffle House for people who can't fight.

I don't know anything and I can prove it!

It's even harder to use if you opted for the D20 version of SAS.

These are all good points, and in general, the points that tend to come most often with this conversation. The problem is at their core, these points are all based on arguments that are biased toward emulating D and D (either pro or con, but still bases on the idea of D and D, where fighters buy stuff and wizards learn it. Branching out a bit, we find _other_ good points that counter the arguments: That is an _excellent_ point that the D and D model fails to consider: no reason your sorcerer isn't sporting a STR 23 and a CON 18, and wields a sword like a barbarian. It's no secret that I hated D and D from the get go, and like it even less now; mostly because I found it's system to be terrible and its assumptions to be assinine. The Fantasy Trip, though, as many flaws as it had, demonstrated _easily_ that there were other ways to do fantasy. Even Traveller, the science fiction game against which all others are judged, had a more interesting way to handle "magic-like abilities:" roll some dice; maybe you got something; maybe you didn't. (A friend once claimed to have run the numbers. He said it worked out to something like 1 in 1300 player characters, but I never tried to verify that) in all other ways, you operated like any other character save one or more abilities that could only be had by random chance operating at random levels- What I am saying is this argument- eh... More precisely, this topic of discussion exists _only_ because on some subconscious level, the person asking assumes that all fantasy shares the same horribly-flawed magic v might dichotomy as Dungeons and Dragons, when the reality is that _good_ fantasy won't go anywhere near them. For example, why the assumption that magic is somehow points-expensive? It can just as easily be a skill roll (manipulate cosmos) or prayer (ransom actions of the GM) of even a two-point perk: "can perform magic" with the wizard buying his spell books or scrolls oe what have you with cash money the same as the the gladiator buys his swords or the healer buys his elixirs. It might even be something else entirely: perhaps this world has a set of know interactions between various magical elements- or magical reactions between mundane items- and the magician spends cash for his spell components and makes a knowledge skill check to see what he is able to make from components on hand. The only thing the "wizards spend points and everyone else spends cash" mindset does is prove the D and D is so pervasive that it can screw up HERO, too.

Yep. Frazetta- one of the most recognizable artistic styles of the modern age, who knew somewhat less about what a tiger looked like than he knew what women's clothes looked like.

I, too, prefer "What."

And, if tradition holds, will be discussed in 6-9 months hence. My standard answer is "it depends _entirely_ on the feel I am going for at the time."

Dude (the gender-neutral one that my generation picked up and I failed to outgrow); I _wish_ I knew how to answer this. So far, I am with Taylor: "yes." I... I dont know what to tell you. I just sort of throw some things on the table in the first couple of sessions; whatever piques the player'a curiosity, I run with. When the game bogs down or they show signs of losing interest, I make hard turn and see what happens. I start with an investigation of a robbery of a museum by costumed villains who have recently been seen scoping out an observatory, and we end up in an abandoned silver mine where an ancient Aztec God is being stylistically summoned by masked luchadores. Then dog-sized robots are terrorizing the city, ripping up sidewalks and taking up soil samples then disappearing down the storm drains which leads to very disoriented clones showing up to their doppleganger's jobs- even when their dopplegangers are there, which just kind of naturally leads to hibiscus plants spitting incendiary seed pods because the local gymnasium is a front for an area-old breeding program attempting to selectively breed immortals, but only because a mastemind villain my players killed in the '80s is involved. Of course, no one knows that until the boring stone stolen from the Neanderthal tool display at the museum is found hanging from the branches of the Christmas tree that was wreaking havoc downtown, and suddenly one of the heroes finds a flyer for an old fish cannery in a hobo camp full of zombies and remembers the old cannery is now some zany new-age cult and decides the party needs to investigate their church and learns there may be a connection to the abandoned submarine base out in the lake, and now it is time,to tie everything together, somehow, because someone has discovered the hypo recorder and is steadily screaming to his fellow players "Do _not_ put me in the comfy chair!" yeah. Not kidding. That's how it goes, almost every time. But I can't tell you how it happened, or where it came from; just that it's a lot of fun. Oh dear! I left out the bit where to clones started exploding.

I have been away for a few days- suprise company- But when this thread got rolling, there were things I wanted to say, but at this point Hugh and Simon have hit on the biggies. My own experience with it (yes; I have toyed with it) is that affects those od us who run map-heavy games the most; Mind'a Eye Theater types won't see a lot of difference between, as Hugh rightly pointed out- this, or holding and aborting. Map- heavy gamers (like myself, and I have always- and perhaps incorrectly- assumed Scott Ruggles) will see some interesting changes in tactics with regards to maneuveing and working range modifiers (as I see other folks have mentioned). Does it break the game? Guys, the official rules list what? Seven hundred options? No; it doesn't really break the game. What it _does_ do, if you aren't careful, is eliminate the penalty for Multipower, Multiform (if you use that) and Duplication. By that I mean that these power constructs all get deep discounts (some cheaper than others) because of an implied disadvantage: Bruce Banner can't lift lift a burning support beam off of himself, or bounce rocket fire off his chest. Oopsie. There is, if you simply declare "each of your phases has two half actions; use them as you will," to allow Zero-phase actions to occur 'whenever.' So now you can tofgle your form eight times in a Phase, and allocate your MP points at will. _this_ is what you nees to avoid. If you declare that allocations / toggles are Zero-phase actions and must be declare at the start of the Phase, period, then it really,doesn't make much difference in actual play (if you don't do a lot of mapping). Otherwise, as Simon pointed out, there is no real drawback or sacrifice to the most common build strategies. Yes; corner cases can be found. Corner cases can _always_ be found, and for pretty much any topic. However, I am willing to bet that _none_ of us have ever participated in any game composed entirely of corner cases, or run into a significant corner case that we couldnt adjudicate in the moment.

Well, there's nothing I can add after that. Thank you, Sir.

I miss real Alla Seltzer Plus..... 🙂 Yep; I'm sick, but it's fine: jead's clear, eyes alert. Laser focus, now let's repaint this house! (I miss the one with a ludicrous amount ephedrine in it. Being sick felt,_better_ than being not-sick!

I don't care which one we stick with; there is zero need to go through this trauma twice a year! (I am one of the luck ones that needs about 3 months to readjust my sleep cycle, meaning twice a year, for three months, sleep is not restful. Wonder why my blood pressure is so startling. Sixty three years of this bull crap!)

Did.... Did we do it? Did we save the daylight? Is the daylight okay now?

Wake up, remember how dead they are in rhis universe, schedule some therapy, and get dressed for work.

Actual,christmas dexorarions were on sale,aeound here _before October_! It should be one-hundred-percent legal to stab the CEO of any company that okays this.

If it is a rabbit you want to run, there is an article in one of the old Adventurers Clubmagazines (PDFs available in the HERO Store) listing the effects of negative characteristics.

We all get that; that was never really part of the problem. However, that is a he'll of a lot to type out with a pair of thumbs for the sixteen or eighteen references per post when there is a well-established shorthand available.

Ha! I had a cat named Rabies many years ago.

Sorry,Hugh. That was a bit misleading. What you suggest is _one_ of my problems, and I think I have directly stated that at some point in this thread. Honestly, Doc D got just about as close to nailing it as I can come to explaining it, apparently. Check out his post just above. Seriously, though, I have contributed all,I can to this thread with just repeating myself. I will keep monitoring for interesting developments, but I don't see any part of my own views that haven't already been expressed (with varying degrees of success).

Yes. Buy dice of PRE and label them. Considering that the guy who gave is this is the same,guy who crammed instant change into transform and eliminated tramsfer because it already exists in drain and aid) and worked his butt of to stick like with like and split out compound things into their components, this sticks out like a dime on a dog's nose.

I was beginning to think not picking up on that was some secret, deliberate conspiracy! Thank you, Sir! Most of sisters did, too. "Too skeezy-looking" was the most common complaint. My wife's only comment was as he got older and shaved she commented "it's about time! I thought he had a hair lip or something; that's the only possible excuse for keeping a seventies 'porn 'stache.' Her only comment on shaven Selleck was "he looks like the cat just threw up on his lap," whatever she meant by that. I will give you that; different strokes for different folks. Show me one that looks like she has enjoyed a meal every now and again or lift her body weight over her head, and I might look at her twice. Doubtful, but I might. Right. As you said: there are those that you will look at twice, or can't look away from. My method is more like any-- well, pretty much every other RPG where you can essentially declare your character is attractive or not, etc, but without a guaranteed, consistent, predictable in-game effect. It allows the characters around the character the ability to react _because they want to_ as opposed to "because you spent three points" or whatever the current version costs. Right. And because of the declared SFX, it can make the Presence Attack more or less successful, and it encourages a bit of role play as to how you are going to use your appeal in this situation, etc. Well, yes, but mostly because in my games, Presence Attacks are defended with EGO. Bingo! Thank you! I can go away now!

Likely,it,is related to my inability to fully-detail what is in my head. Agreed.. COM _is_ free (in my games), and Strikinf Appearamce shouldnt exist at all, save as a description / name for a Mind,Control build or extra dice of Presence Attack. sorry, folks- I have to quit posting three and more hours after bedtime. I mentioned MC, but kept skipping over PRE Attack. My fault. "Sriking Appearance" is as good a justification as any other for another couple of dice of Presence Attack, but we have to grow up beyond the idea that Presence is a "fear me!" based thing. Granted, most discussions of that subject demonstrate that the majority of those on this board moved beyond that years ago, making me more comfortable in the Presence Attack suggestion. Agreed. By the nature of HERO, one should not expect too much from a characteristic that the GM has declared to be free. We have no disagreemnt here. Or we can avoid that extra step by declaring unusually attractive or unnatractive features to be bonuses to particular types of Presence Attack or declaring that the power to sway men's minds uses the mechanics already in place for building the power to sway men's minds. No extra steps; uses mechanics that have been extant since 1e, and leaves free will in the citizens that should have it. Precisely. Using Presence Attack or Mind Control, how many multiples of the target number to do what Striking appearance does for whatever piddly little amount is costs? Where I to apply the "roll multiples of the target number" to some sort of "Comeliness roll," how many dice of Comeliness would I need to have to get that reliably enough to say "all the time" (given that SA provides its bonus all the time)? Right. And I don't. Without any attempt at snark or sarcasm or any form of derision, I have said so multiple times during this thread; this is not a decision I am trying to make or a situation I am trying to resolve. It is a decision I made over thirty years ago and it has gone quite swimmingly ever since. My commentary has been- or has been intended to be- the point of view of someone who agrees that Comeliness was not aomething worth buying, yet can't help but notice that Comeliness, bought or sold to extreme values, still exists in the game as SA, in spite of the claim that it is now gone. The only thing "gone" about it at this point is the granularity it once offered. I further offered that rather than cobbling together some beauty-based mechanic, it would be far more suitable to use mechanics that have always existed for this exact situation: if your appearance or manner or grace or charm are such as to elicit notice and extreme reactions, then buy some dice of PRE Attack with the build name "absolutely gorgeous / gruesome" and rock on. If your appearance is such that people will always react a certain way or do a certain thing (be friendly to me), then buy some dice of Mind Control. The problem here is that as-is, SA And just like that, I lost where that thought was going. Sorry; I work 12+ hour days with only two breaks and a lunch. I don't remember where I was headed a few hours ago when I started that. If it circles back around, I will let you know. It can even be just normal that people can't treat one person different for fear of their job, or that they tend to think of people as "people" and a person as a person, and not a fantasy object. It could be the person is mature enough to know that no matter how rich, intelligent, or gorgeous he is, someone somewhere is sick to death of his nonsense. It miggt just be normal to conduct business or interact with someone and think "wow; that person is attractive" without really going any further than that. And of course, there is the problem of no two people finding the same thing overwhelmingly attractive. I am waiting for a gas pump right now (the Valk doesn't go very far on a drink) and there are perhaps two dozen people milling about and it occurs to me that I couldn't tell you how many men or women are here or even what ethnicities are represented (except for the guys behind me I hear speaking Spanish). Pretty sure if I turned to check, they'd be Latino), let alone who is pretty (well, they are all pretty cold, but that's not where we are going here) and who isn't. Frankly, I really can't tell you if a guy is pretty or not without either a straight woman or a gay man to tell me. Why would I suddenly decide "ooh! I feel swayed by his beauty" when I am incapable of actually seeing it in another man? Perhaps it's a Disadplication, but being as how, in my own experience, it seems to be the norm for nearly all the straight men I know, I would think it more likely that a smaller subset of men has KS: what makes a man attractive or perhaps Detect: handsome. We could go on and on, but at the end of the day, is Comeliness is gone, then SA needs to go with it. If we throw out STR but keep "lifting capacity," we haven't really thrown out strength; we are just jumping straight to the mechanic, and in thr case of COM (or SA) it has always just been a duplicate of existing ways to achieve the same result.