The Main Man

Re: HAP: How to use them I think effort should count at least as much as ability. A poor roleplayer deserves credit for at least trying. Besides, I'm sure we all sucked at it when we first got into the hobby. Reward effort; make the quality be its own reward. Just my thoughts on the matter. That said though, it's up to the GM what constitutes effort.

I think it can be done. I think there is a baby in that bathwater. To me, from the pulp stories I have read, the racism had two sides to it. One part is the easily discarded xenophobia and white supremacy. The other part though, in which races are often given lush descriptions that emphasize their exotic differences from the Western world (sometimes even within the West) is worth keeping in my opinion if one approaches it intelligently and sensitively. I've read stories in which other races feel as different from our heroes as elves, dwarves, and orcs do from humans. On the one hand, this implied a certain level of inhumanity - especially for African blacks. On the other hand, playing explicitly different races is commonplace in Fantasy gaming. That is, players often like to play that which is different from them. We can all agree that a good Pulp campaign would at least respect different races for all being human. I think that they can be made interesting not by emphasizing their physical differences but by emphasizing their cultural differences in positive, engaging ways. That a tribe of Africans is black skinned is incidental; that they use spears for combat, revere lions for their ferocity, and find a bowl of spicy, fried grubs tasty is interesting. The important thing is to treat it all with wonder rather than fear. This brings me to something of a challenge: how far can one make templates of a culture without being overly stereotyped? Are (respectful) stereotypes okay in gaming? Fantasy HERO presents Cultural Templates, and in many ways they might cover many bases, but what about the GM who desires more difference from culture to culture? Is that kosher? That said, I think that players can be an important part of this if they play up elements of their character's culture. I think it would help highlight differences between cultures if the players are more aware of their characters' own cultural preferences. What say you all? Am I mad or am I onto something? Maybe both?

Re: HAP: How to use them Yeah, that's what I'm realizing, and that's why I turn to HG for my latest wacky ideas before unleashing then on my group. I plan to look into your simpler, more subjective approach to rewards. As far as "Signature Moves," I'll send you a PM to address it. I run a Dragonball HERO campaign which deals with a similar concept, but that topic is not appropriate to this thread IMO.

Re: HAP: How to use them

Re: HAP: How to use them Just a thought, but I wonder now if the Drama/Fate/Bennie/etc point appeals to Narrativist players more than it does to Gamist players. I have a player who has a similar outlook as you in that he almost always just accepts his rolls. I, on the other hand, look at dice as these dumb objects that you can always count on to let you down. I would definitely classify him primarily as a Gamist (followed closely by Simulationist) while I am more of a Narrativist. That's of course if one subscribes to GNS theory at all...

Re: HAP: How to use them The key here is that the PC will accept that they are going to bear some burden as a result of the Complication. Calling their DNPC girlfriend would not give them any HAPs - the DNPC must be in danger and thus pose a problem/dilemma for the PC. Bumping into a Hunted is not good enough - Doctor Destroyer stopping by for a milkshake while belittling the PC wouldn't net any points. Doctor Destroyer showing up to punch the PC in the mouth, however, would give them points. You do bring up a good point about frequency versus severity being lopsided. Perhaps it should be strictly based on severity - how much it actually affects the PC. Its frequency just helps it pop up more or less. If a PC wants a very frequent and very severe complication then they need to get ready for their character to suffer greatly for it and very often. That said, I'd have to consider what constitutes a minor, moderate, or major severity in the first place; some are more obvious than others. I would say that could be a result if a player so chooses, which thus results in a net zero effect - they let some Complications affect them, they negate others. It's their choice, but they'd hardly get the best use of them that way. I think the fact they could temporarily buy off Complications one instance at a time can serve to curb the frequency problem you observed above. On the other hand, perhaps this usage of HAPs could be based on frequency just as the other is based on severity. The more frequent the complication, the fewer HAPs it takes to negate it - after all, it will happen again sooner than the others. I generally place myself in the "roll if it's actually important" school of rolling dice. That is subjective, yes, but I think the liberal use of skills for rather mundane things like that wouldn't be rewarded. They're Heroic Action Points, not Normal, Everyday BS Points. It's ultimately GM discretion here. Good point. It seems to me that each works fine on their own, but they have a lot of potential to easily achieve zero effect. That's the general idea, yes. My intention to to remove the CP incentive from role playing - CP becomes a flat reward in the name of player balance; I've found balancing PCs based on their total CP and reconciling effort and ability with that is more trouble than it's worth. The CP incentive therefore becomes a HAP incentive. The incentive remains but it's become a more immediate and more short-term reward thus theoretically encouraging more desired role playing styles. Good points; This seems to be the flimsiest of my ideas - I think they still all have individual merit, but they fall apart upon meshing together. Maybe the penalties ought to be removed and there is either reward or no reward but no penalties. True. I admit that this one is a very "gut feeling" thing. I plan to redraft a lot of the "Role Playing" HAP rewards and then post them when I think I have a better working model. Lotsa fun, I can assure you. That and they give incentive to use any HAPs gained. Takes a few sessions for players to "get it" though, game-play-wise. As for the Power Skill, there is a similar system for Superheroes I've been working on and even started a thread on it: Everyman VPPs. It's basically the Superhero equivalent to "Stunts." 1-2 points is a small condolence and only really adds up if your group is regularly large and (counterintuitively) regularly absent. In my group of 8 people, if it came down to 1 GM and 1 Player, that player would get +12 HAPs for that game. That's six absent players; I dunno about that being a good long-term plan. Second, if my teammates regularly get killed/knocked out, then they most likely will catch on to my benefitting from it and thus make tougher characters. It's no fun being knocked out/dead. It's self-regulating if you ask me. That is an interesting abuse of the system that I have yet to encounter. I'll have to think about that one. That said, as usual, it needs to be relevant; meaningful; substantial. Just because one has Healing or Regeneration doesn't mean they can soak up HAPs because of BODY damage from friendly fire. One of those "I see through your tricks" kind of things any good GM is on the look out for anyway. I use it as a baseline. A player regains up to that amount every game within the same story arc. If they have more, then they start with what they had at the end of the last game. I have thought about ways to translate excess HAPs into bonus CP at the end of story arcs in a way similar to Karma from Marvel Super Heroes, but I have nothing substantial that I think even begins to work right. Besides, there's that whole "remove CP incentive" motive I listed above.

Re: Resource Pools in Star Hero I've been mulling over using Resource Pools for a few campaigns lately. This thread is definitely giving me stuff to think about. For one, I am working on a Time Travel HERO campaign and I'm not sure how to address Resource Pools for what I hope are obvious reasons. I have the idea that they start with no Resource Points but I give them some little by little through minor assigned CP rewards. I can see certain arguments in favor of them having to buy such things from scratch though. You watch Doctor Who and almost no one but The Doctor brings any gear with themself, and one could argue that The Doctor uses what Resource Points he has to swap out various gadgets with a few Inventor rolls. Hm... I have a High Fantasy campaign on the back burner though, and earlier comments have definitely inspired me to make use of them to balance Magic with Equipment. I also have a Pulp/Dark Champions/Ninja HERO hybrid in the works that I'm not sure how to approach just yet either. I'm not sure if the PCs should buy all of their Resource Points or if they should get some for free.

Re: HAP: How to use them Other things I do with Heroic Action Points: I. Here's a scale I found that generally works for starting Heroic Action Points. It does depend on just how amazing you want your PCs to be though. 3 - Competent Normal 6 - Standard Heroic 9 - Powerful Heroic 12 - Very Powerful Heroic 15 - Low-Powered Superheroic 18- Standard Superheroic 21 - Powerful Superheroic II. Something I have implemented which puts the above levels to great use is what I call "Stunts." I've done a thread on this idea before and I swear by them now too. To me, many characters that HERO sets out to simulate do too many things to be affordable for what HERO recommends, but to give PCs as many points as needed would become equally absurd. So I cut the Gordian knot by deciding that maybe PCs can attempt certain things at the cost of Heroic Action Points. In summary, Stunts give PCs the ability to attempt certain Super Skills (Dark Champions)/ Heroic Talents (Pulp HERO) for free, though usually at a lesser degree than the full ability. I use most of the Skill Roll-based Super Skills/etc for this purpose. The catch? It costs 1 Heroic Action Point to attempt in the first place, and those Skill Roll penalties usually mean you might need a few more to pull it off; this prevents a PC from using them willy nilly. PCs are free to buy these same abilities for the sake of improvement; they pay half the Real Cost in return. III. Additional Little Things I Do. -1x - Raise REC +1 for one Recovery +1-10 - PC is in Negative BODY (up to -10) +3/+1 - PC is Knocked Out; KO'ed PC gains +3 HAPs; Their fellow PCs gain +1 HAP each. +3 - PC dies; Their fellow PCs gain +3 HAPs each +2 - Absent player bonus; All present players start with +2 HAPs per absent player; this assumes that they really could use those other PCs. +6 - Brand New PC Smell; A PC gets +6 HAPs in their first game to give them some room to really shine +3 - Still Fresh PC Smell; A PC gets +3 HAPs in their second game to keep shining a little more and get to know that character; no additional HAPs after that though.

Re: HAP: How to use them So, about those ideas... I. Complications. It's done in M&M to rather decent effect, but I've yet to see a good implementation for HERO. I think that a scaled approach could work; not all Complications are created equal after all, so why should they give uniform reward? Furthermore, the Complication must actually complicate matters for the PC. A Hunted must actively make matters worse; their Code of the Hero must cause them an inconvenience; Their Secret Identity must actually put the character in a quandary. If the GM believes it is the case, then they give the PC a few HAPs for accepting the consequences of the Complication. +1 - Accept consequences of Minor Complication (5-10pts) +2 - Accept consequences of Moderate Complication (15-20pts) +3 - Accept consequences of Major Complication (25+pts) If a PC gains HAPs for accepting the consequences, what if they can also pay HAPs to deny/negate those consequences in certain situations? This one is a little murkier I'll admit, but it is ultimately up to the GM. On the one hand, Susceptibilities and Vulnerabilities tend to be cut and dry. On the other hand, many Complications are simply story elements - to deny their consequences is to essentially render them a non-factor for your character for the time being. -1 - Deny/Negate consequences of Minor Complication -2 - Deny/Negate consequences of Moderate Complication -3 - Deny/Negate consequences of Major Complication II. Critical Success and Failure. This is one area I have interest in implementing quite a bit; having HAPs play some part in the success of a Critical roll. Observe: +3 - Downgrade Critical Success to simple roll of 3 +/-0 - Accept Critical Success as auto-success only -3 - Upgrade Critical Success to additional benefits -3 - Upgrade Critical Failure to simple roll of 18 +/-0 - Accept Critical Failure as auto-failure only +3 - Accept Critical Failure with additional effects Think of every Critically Succeeded PER Roll or Skill Roll that you really didn't need. Think of every Critically Failed Skill or Attack roll you really did need. These can work to play around with that a little. Bear in mind that none of these will ever change a non-Critical roll to a Critical one; they still must be naturally rolled. III. Role Playing. These rewards and penalties are related to the playing of characters. The main points of these rewards are similar to the "Appropriate Unlikely Actions" from the Champions genre books of old. They are rewards for performing various actions that defy common sense but make perfect sense in other ways. Additionally, they must be actions that matter. +1 - Adventurous, Bold, Clever, Heroic Actions +1-3 - Action was Critical to adventure -1 - Cowardly, Idiotic, Impulsive, Unheroic Actions -1-3 - Action was Critical to adventure +1-3 - Entertaining, Memorable, Noteworthy, etc actions -1 - Invoke a Genre Trope to Character's Advantage +1 - Invoke a Genre Trope to Character's/Characters' Disadvantage -1 - Play in Genre/Style/Tone to own Advantage +1 - Play in Genre/Style/Tone to own Disadvantage I have yet to implement any of these Heroic Action Point rewards. They are all speculative for myself at this time. I hope people like them, and I hope I get some helpful feedback to improve them.

Re: HAP: How to use them First, I swear by HAPs and similar mechanics in other games. Second, HAPs are not as individually potent as other games' versions of the mechanic. Thus, a GM needs to be more cautious because too few HAPs/game will seem next to meaningless while too many will make the game a cakewalk.. That said, I look for ways to utilize them beyond simple die roll adjustment. I'll share such the first chance I get.to Furthermore, I have been looking into ways to create a HAP economy, and this thread looks about as good a place to share such ideas. Again, first chance I get (gotta get mah notes first).

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Power creation that allows you to systematically simulate almost anything. A combat system that you can really get into. You can build the character you want instead of picking cookie cutters. The system can be used for multiple genres without any changes. M&M really is a great system if you come to it from playing D&D. It simplifies many elements of the D20 system to make it a quicker, better oiled machine. But let me be the first to tell you that it cribs its Power Creation system straight from Champions and I say accept no substitutions. Furthermore, M&M is geared towards building and simulating Superheroes only; Champions only begins with Superheroes. Heroes Unlimited presents Superheroes in highly cookie cutter ways. It lacks consistency and isn't particularly balanced well. Champions, as you may have heard, does involve math, but ask yourself if the following would strain your brain: Power Creation: Base Points x (1 + Sum of Advantages) = Active Points Active Points / (1 + Sum of Limitations) = Real Points That is all the math in Power Creation and it's only done when creating your character or buying new things. The following is as complex as combat calculation ever gets: Attack Roll: (Offensive Combat Value + 11) - 3d6 = Defensive Combat Value hit If you can handle that and Power Creation, then that is the toughest math ever gets in Champions. Then there is the combat system, which is intricate, thorough, and highly flexible once you catch onto its internal logic of allocation. Blocking, Dodging, Grabbing, Throwing, etc. Champions does it all and it isn't so confusing that you don't bother, this creating more dynamic, more exciting combat. So again: power creation, combat, internal logic and consistency, flexibility, and adaptability. Champions should be the first name in superhero (and multigenre) gaming if you like your gaming crunchy. If you're more of a Marvel Super Heroes guy, then Champions operates from the opposite side of that rules spectrum. So if you like hard coded, crunchy rules systems, then go with Champions.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete It never occurred to me until now that the sheer thoroughness of 6e might have lead to fewer new members on these boards. Interesting observation.

Re: Anyone thought about a post-apocalyptic cross genra setting - let's call it "Drif I'm in.

Re: "Elevator Pitch" your campaign Very conscious "wink." It began as a cross between the Doctor's TARDIS and the Monoliths from 2001. Then it clicked in my head - I have that kind of sense of humor.

Re: "Elevator Pitch" your campaign Since my group votes on what to play next every three weeks, there are too darn many for me to name so I'll keep it to what I run or plan to run soon. Dragonball South Galaxy - The events depicted in the popular Japanese cartoon Dragonball/Z/GT took place in the northern part of the universe; these take place in the southern parts a century or so after the source for a bit of continuity distance even though it makes use of a lot of the movie villains. I already know what anyone is gonna ask: characters currently cost in excess of 900 CP with a general DC range of 12-20 as well as 1 Charge, x2 END, 28-32 DC "Super Techniques." Sons of the Dragon - In 1975, a group of masked martial arts crimefighters emerged to avenge the mysterious death of the man they all once trained with: Bruce Lee. It's basically The Shadow, Batman, and Bruce Lee put in a blender. Powerful Heroic for the curious. Rifts Silvereno - It's the high powered gonzo action of Rifts out in the New West and adapted for HERO as a Standard Superheroic campaign. Actually a sequel campaign to an earlier one. The Time Cube - An upcoming Time Travel/World Hopping campaign in which a motley group of heroes from across the known history of Earth come together in a mysterious, obsidian cube that can travel across time and space. Think Doctor Who, Farscape, and Supernatural (among others) and you've got the gist of the idea. Standard Heroic for the curious.

Re: Suppressing my rage Suppress is not Drain that Costs Endurance; it's Drain that Costs Endurance to Maintain. Let's be accurate at least.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete That's pretty much what I'm suggesting. Right on the money. Have some rep.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I think that's where adding sourcebook material relevant to the adventure comes in handy. It makes the product usable on two levels. I think a decently cheap price tag would hook them in all that much more - it reduces risk while having great long term value.

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat? You know; it.

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat? To take it one step further, perhaps "race bloat" is whenever a newly proposed race clearly does just that by its sheer concept/inception.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete When I say "Beginner" I mean that the reader does have CC but they could use context. "Beginner" modules would not reprint the rules but would show how they work in actual play and GMing. Now that I reread my post though, I forgot to mention my suggestion of $5-6 prices ($3-4 digital). The modules I envision wouldn't justify $10+ purchases as they would be far too short.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I'm psyched about CC now thanks to this thread. That said, having read some of the recent discussion on supplement ideas, I picture something like this: every supplement is either a Beginner or an Advanced supplement. Beginner supplements assume that the player knows nothing about the CC rules or the CU setting. Villains, NPCs, and various setting details are introduced in Beginner supplements on a level similar to their entries in Champions Universe and Champions Villains. Furthermore, almost all information presented in a supplement is used for a full adventure which helps the reader better understand how CC plays. Advanced supplements kick things up a notch. They assume the reader generally knows the HERO rules and that they know something about the setting. Advanced settings tend to reuse villains, NPCs, and settings from prior supplements and recommend the reader collect those supplements for more information. A villain, NPC, and/or setting(s) are likely to be reintroduced with a more advanced build and given more and deeper details than they would in a Beginner supplement; detail akinto Book of the Destroyer, VIPER: Coils of the Serpent, or Champions Beyond. Every supplement is compatible with another and can interconnect. In essence, the GM builds their own Champions Universe. Beginner Module Example: There could be a Basic level module that introduces Doctor Destroyer on a level akin to his CV1 entry. You get to know something about him, his basic agents, and maybe Black Talon armors or Gigaton or so. It is all easily reusable info for homebrew adventures, but this supplement uses all of that information for a complete adventure that guides the new GM in the ways of running HERO. Advanced Module Example: A future supplement could come out that features Doctor Destroyer again. This time, he might involve some of his henchmen introduced in BotD and maybe some more or new varieties of his minions. We get to learn stuff about them now, but that sounds light on information, doesn't it? What if DD's plot is so big that UNTIL gets involved, and thus UNTIL becomes the focus of the book? The UNTIL information is basic enough, but you need to have the prior DD module to properly use him in this adventure. That said, I don't think it would be wrong to still include all relevant character sheets no matter the level. Furthermore, I think any given supplement in that scheme could use a page or so of additional plot seeds and hooks for the villains and other characters presented. Thoughts?

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat? I think we are on the verge of a more nuanced approach to racial presentation in RPGs. That is to say, should races be monocultural stereotypes or should they really blend with their cultural surroundings and only have small, inherent behavioral deviations?

Re: Hypothetically and unofficially, what would you like to see in a Mecha Hero book? If such a book could even explain how to handle Gurren Lagann, it would be an instant buy for me. Granted the main hurdle there involves massive power increases at pivotal plot points. HERO, for all its strengths, its not particularly well-suited to sudden character redesigns like that. Not RAW anyway, or at least IME.