Shiva13

Heroic Adventures and Heroic Adventures Vol/ 2 arrived today from Ebay. And when I opened the package, they were absolutely pristine. Look new.

Here There Be Tigers arrived today from Ebay. It's got a lot of expanded info for Danger International in it.

I ordered Heroic Adventures, Heroic Adventures 2, and Here There Be Tigers today from Ebay. I found them at very reasonable prices. So that completes the 4th edition and back collection. I just have to wait for them to arrive.

Pyramid In The Sky appeared in my mail a few minutes ago. I'm really glad to have it.

That completes my collection of Champions 4th Edition sourcebooks. All the ones in print at the least.

Justice, Not Law appeared in my mail today. And I'm happy to have gotten it. It definitely filled a hole in my collection.

Since ordering the above, I found out I was missing just one more 4th Edition print product. Pyramid In The Sky.

I have since ordered it from the same place I got all of the other classic supplements I mentioned in this thread. They really floored me. Because all the books were at their original cover price. So I didn't have to pay the Ebay tax on any of it.

www.dragonstrove.com is where I got all of this at. And they have great service.

It's a Danger International adventure. The one that was produced.

It's almost complete. I just got a shipment today of nearly all of the books I didn't have. And I just ordered today the final book that I didn't yet own. It should be here in a week or so.

Horror Hero

Hudson City Blues

S.H.A.D.O.W. Over Scotland

Watchers Of The Dragon

I got those today. The next one coming is Justice, Not Law

I wanted to let everybody know that my physical copy of Champions Now arrived today. And even though the package looked like it had been run over multiple times, and was ripped open on one side. The contents were absolutely pristine. So I'm happy.

14 minutes ago, Tjack said:

   P.S.  What kind of stuff do you write?  You mentioned formats but not style or genre.

Superhero fiction. With a large Pulp, Golden, some small Silver influences, and story complexity of the Bronze Age. But I also dip into pulp scifi and some other pulp subgenres when I feel the need.

The heroes tend to be low powered with usually one big impressive trick. I really haven't had any true bricks in the stories yet. Giant monsters? Yes. But no bricks.

In the setting, superheroes have only been public since the 1970's. They existed before then.. But they were largely urban legends. Along with the more conventional pulp heroes.

The '70s was when nobody could deny the reality of them. As the big things happened. Like the first major supervillain team making a very public splash on an international level.

I'm not new to Champions. Just Champions Now.

I have my own superhero world I originally conceived with Champions that has actually resulted in 14 novels. A combination of graphic novels and regular prose. With more to come there everyday.

I've found that writing has brought me a lot of pleasure. And has let me do things with my characters I could never do with my history of game groups. It's just brought a lot of fulfillment I did not get in the past.

As far as superhero gaming goes. It's now a side pursuit.

But it was Champions 3rd Edition that got me started. And I have owned every edition of the Hero System rules since.

Less than 5 minutes ago, I put in an order with Hero Games for my own print copy of Champions Now. And it should be in my hands in a couple of weeks due to the shipping method I used.

I bought the print and pdf bundle. And I am going to loan my physical copy to a local friend who never went beyond 3rd edition. To get his opinion. To see if he likes it. If he does, you can bet he will buy a copy of his own. And we might both get together and do a test campaign to dent its tires. So to speak.

This has been my first Champions product in many years. So I'm hoping I get my money's worth from it. I'm feeling positive about it. So I'm eager to see the outcome.

Does anyone know if this game will be added as an option within Hero Designer? I would find it incredible useful if it ended up happening.

I'm a long time HD user. So I tend to rely on it pretty heavily for character and campaign management.

A friend who supported the Kickstarter let me look over the PDF version of the game. And honestly? It is causing me to buy the physical version as soon as it becomes available.

I want more time with it. I want to kick its tires and play it in the wild. It's something that definitely interests me.

I have been having fun with Supergirl. I have been watching it on the CW app. Watching it is one of the bright spots of my week.

My Champions Universe evolved over the decades into its very own comics universe.

Champions will always be a part of the legacy of the end product. Because all involved in creating our graphic novels were all originally Champions gamers.

I have been doing something similar with some of the characters I have made. But mostly the theme songs have been for super groups. I haven't really delved into theme songs for indivisual characters.

The new V&V 3.0: Mighty Protectors RPG contains an extensive overview of Jeff Dee and Jack Herman's Earth Prime world. The one they have been running since 1st Edition.

I own CLOWN. I also own the version of them that was printed in Classic Organizations.

To put it mildly. CLOWN is an aquired taste. One that is not to my taste. Other people enjoy it. But I do not.

Corporations I also own. It's a good solid sourcebook. It treats its subject matter well. 

Well regardless. I need it to make my collection of 4th edition era stuff complete.

PDF only stuff from that era is another matter. I still have quite a bit of that to find.

I'm old. I prefer print. I've never really adapted to reading ebooks.

I will be grabbing Justice Not Law, Pyramid In The Sky, and Watchers Of The Dragon. Those are the three sourcebooks of that age I don't yet own. And that's not a bad price.

Marking them down for my payday in October.

That really brings me back. Seeing when characters were a whole lot less complex.

I'm mainly speaking of the 300 point version. It's quite refreshing for me to see such a simple clean design.

I come from a superhero genre perspective most of the time in my use of the Hero System. It is also where the biggest amount of complexity in character generation comes up. And the source of the biggest amount of abuse I see with the character generation system.

I see two possible solutions to remove the stress and the headaches. One would be premade characters. The other would be for the players to submit their character ideas to the GM. And then the GM would build all of the characters as they prepare for the game.

I know there are plenty of players who would whine and complain about a GM taking either of these routes. But over my excessive number of years of dealing with this game system, I have come to realize that these two methods are those that would cause the least amount of stress. As it would eliminate the subject of argument in the first place.

round and round the conversation goes... anyone else getting dizzy?

 

Why something is done is as important as What is done.

 

Shiva just seems to assume any level of efficiency or optimization is done to be abusive, or is inherently disruptive.

 

That's as bad as pure, point grabbing, out-to-get-everyone, player-vs-gm, gaming out there.

 

Some players just tweak until they get their vision just right, and sometimes that means a bit of manipulation to get the most of from their allotted point totals. They aren't out to disrupt the game, probably won't even actually disrupt the game.

 

Unless you assume that it always will, then it probably will - because you as the GM let it disrupt the game by you yourself getting more caught up in how a player used points then why a player used points. You're as bad as any munchkin at that point. Probably worse.

And the inevitable shifting of blame appears!

The ones being disruptive always try this pitiful tactic. They always try to place the blame on the GM or the other players for the damage they initriate and are responsible for.

It's childish. And the height of selfish. It shows for absolute certain they lack the maturity to be in a group activity in the first place.

In their mind, nothing is ever their fault! Especially when it is.

I'm done here. And more than a little fed up.of having to deal with the bad behavior that seems to come hand in hand with this game system. It is just plain not worth it.

There are plenty of other game systems out there that do not suffer these issues to this ridiculous scale. Plenty where these issues never come up at all in the first place.

This only goes to show me that I have been correct in looking elsewhere to satisfy my gaming needs. Because the bother that comes with the Hero System isn't worth it to me. I would rather be focusing on fun.

Dealing with disruptive players is not any fun. And arguing over character generation is not fun.

It's always something with exploitive players.

A GM has to make a decision early on in what they want to achieve with a game group. If you have a player intent on being disruptive. It is best to eliminate them early on to avoid stress that could lead to the whole thing being ruined.

The longer a GM waits to remove a disruptive player. The more damage that disruptive player does to the whole group.

As I said before. A GM has limited resources and energy they can commit to the game they are running. And if they are not having fun or become exhausted by the whole thing, then everything implodes. And the game goes "bye bye".

The presence of those who optimize their characters to a high degree forces the GM and the rest of the group, against their will, to adapt to the player who is engaging in the extreme optimization.

This adaptation is worse for the GM. Who invariably has to go through and tweak each and every NPC they can stand up to the extremely optimized player character. It opens up an arms race within the game group that rocks the group to its very foundations.

So no. I don't see this as a minor issue. I see it for what it is. Active disruptive behavior.being forced upon the game group as a whole.

Other players whose characters who aren't so extremely optimized face a direct impact on the performance of their characters in play. They invariably faced with their characters having "lesser" role in actual play. While the extremely optimized character grabs and hogs the spotlight. Forcing them to also engage in extreme optimization. Just so their characters can keep up. It forces a change of dynamics within the game group as a whole.

It forcibly introduces a level of competition into the game that is nothing but disruptive.

This is not minor. It damages the whole game group. And causes a whole lot more work for the GM.

A GM only has a limited amount of time and energy to commit to the game itself. That time and energy is a precious thing. It can be used for creating storylines in support of the campaign. Or it can be wasted on the actions of players who abuse the character generation system.

I'm making no bones as to which I prefer to commit my limited energy to as a GM. Story development trumps everything else.