Klytus

Spoken by Darkseid to Orion in the "War of the Gods" series when New Genesis, led by Orion, had come to Apokolyps to have it out once and for all... "If I truly am to meet Death this day, you shall herald my arrival with my bootprint firmly embedded into your buttocks!" Spoken by Batman (in the Animated Series) to a gangster who was hanging upside down at a high-rise construction site. "OK, scumbucket. Its just you, me, and 30 stories..." Another good one from B:tAS. One of the Joker's henchmen is driving a UPS-like truck with Batman hanging on the the roof, trying to get him to stop. Being stupid, the bad-guy refuses to cooperate, so he weaves and crashes into things, trying to shake Bats off the van. Finally, Batman tosses his batrope on the steering wheel, pulls, and the truck flips onto its side. He dives off, and the driver is thrown while the truck crashes in a fireball. With the flames danching behind him, Batman walks up to the driver, hauls him up by the collar of neck, and says... "Let's talk."

The NCM Debate Personally, I very much like the idea put forward that while 20 may be the "normal" characteristic maximum, any Stat can go up to 30 without some kind of super-power justification. So, you have 20 reflecting the stats of "normal' folks at the peak of their abilities (like marathon runners) you still have room for people to go above and beyond (like Olympic weight lifters) the 20 limit, it just gets tougher. Super-heroes are just that. Even the so-called "normal" people with exceptional training (like Batman, Nightwing, Daredevil, Captain America, etc) can easily go over 20, but not 30, as it is within the frameworks of the "normal" human range, but that 20-30 slot gives them the ability to stand out from the "normal" crowd. Remember, every year, new records are broken and new standards are set for the pinnacle of human athletic achievement. The 4-minute mile was once impossible - now its simply a benchmark. The bar is constantly being raised, so having 20 be the static human max does not work. The 20-30 range, however, leaves the wiggle room one needs to reflect this. And while skill levels, lightning reflexes, et al can help bridge this gap, in some cases it just doesn't feel right. I simply cannot accept the notion that Batman and Captain America have DEX scores of 20 because they are not "super" humans.

This was from our D&D game last night. The cleric was dramatically brandishing his holy symbol and invoking his deity, Pelor, to turn some zombies... "Might of Smelor - Pite these undead!"

I never saw the Dreadnaught armor as unstoppable. It has 23 Mental Defenses, 20 Power Defense, and 30rPD/30rED with hardening. However, it does not have Lack of Weakness - even the original 4th Ed. Crusader can hurt this thing! Yeah, the 60 CON, 30 REC and 99 STUN make it almost impossible to stun, but it also only has DEX 8 and +6 levels with punching, making its total OCV 9 with just a single attack. And at DCV 3, even Aunt May couild hit it from a mile away with her eyes closed. And with a total running of 12", it can;t get away. Yeah, its got that 4" of tunneling through DEF 36, but the hole does not fill in behind it. You let the brick go toe-to-toe with it and put his combat levels into DCV, odds are the Dreadnaught won't be able to land a blow, and have everyone else coordinate their attacks. The Dreadnaught goes down just fine, making it a far cry from the neigh-unstoppable Juggernaught.

Karma, What you outlined is pretty much my style of running games as well - I hate linear adventures. Trouble is, creative and/or players STILL find ways to throw a wrench in the works. Little things like ... going on a long trip in the middle of an ongoing game just as things are about to get interessting, making it so that you either have to NPC the absent players character or simply not play, as there is no way in-game to write this very important character out of the action without screwing over the rest of the party. Then again, there is the whole problem of having to put everything on hold anyway because OTHER PLAYERS unexpectedly decline to show up at the last minute. This is not just GM harrassment, but it harrasses all the other players as well.

My Juggernaut/Hulk clone would have to be Devastator. Other than his justifiable overconfidence, he has no vulnerabilities or weaknesses. The only way to take him down is to just keep on pounding away. I'm sure DocMan can tell you all kinds of stories about battles against the Big D.

That was before Superman and Wonder Woman got sent into a Ragnarock-type battle against demons for 1000 years...

Starhawk, our group knows all about atmosphere. Or maybe I should say, we know how to ruin it (a lot of my stories seem to be from our Vampire games here lately....) Anyway, the Storyteller (my wife) had set up this beautiful dark, creepy mood. There was this old wooden desk with a false drawer. Pulling the drawer out revealed a tangible cloud of corruption. There was something in that blackness we needed to get, but touching filed my character with cold chils, that were somehow warm and soothing to the darkness within his own soul. It was a struggle against the Beast and my own darkness to not succumb to the evil. The whole scene was dark, creepy and very well done... which was instantly shattered when someone in our group called it "The Desk Drawer of Horrible Black Ickyness" This all happened about 7 years ago, and my wife has still not forgiven the foul miscreant (her cousin) for shattering the mood! His characters have suffered in her games ever since. Beware antagonizing the GM...

I know this is comic book physics we're talking about, but I never liked the whole idea of "I'm invisible by moving too fast" routine. Unless you have Desolidification to go with it, any kind of super-speed movement is going to be noticed by the sonic-boom being generated or, at the very least, the windstorm you'll be leaving in your wake. Again, I know this is the comics we're talking about, but it would be less offensive if the writers handled it with some consistency. I've seen Superman and Flash moving at super-speeds with the obvious wind-tunnel effect trailing behind them. I also remember the race they ran making sonic booms and shattering nearby windows. Superman is usually careful to not go super-sonic when flying low specifically to avoid creating collateral damage... yet all of these environmental side-effect are conveniently absent when Clark dashes about at invisble-super-speed inside the Daily Planet.

How this fight would end all depends on how Supes is built. I agree with the idea that folks have put forward on this board, that in Champs terms, Superman's Resistant Defenses and Damage Reduction have the Lim: Not vs Magic. However, he still does have huge amounts of PD & ED, and insane CON to back it up. In the War of the Gods thread (many years ago) he once intercepted a blast of pure magic that was meant to 'nuke' Paradise Island. The blast knocked him out cold, and he didn't absorb the entire blast- he only weakened it - but that is still an impresive amount of toughness for a man vulnerable to magic. So, even if we define Thor's hammer as a "magical" SFX attack, it still isn't going to smear the Big S. It'll sure hurt him more than he would expect, but once he knows how much it can hurt him, Supes will take that into consideration for the rest of the fight. And yes, Superman does remember that he has super-speed. But as was so cleanly defined in the Man of Steel mini-series when he was "remade" in the early 90's, he is in the habbit of holding back because most people he fights aren't even as remotely powerful as he is. But once you show Big Blue what kind of punishment is required to take you down, he can dish it out in spades.

This quote comes from yet anothe rone of our Vampire games. We're all in a van, and some members of the group are getting ready to head out someplce, stealth being of the essence. My character, James, had to remain remain behind with the van, but said that he and his weapon would be ready should there be a need. To this, Sid, the party smart-@$$ replies: "Oh, great way to not attract attention, James! People will be wandering by on the streets going 'Gee, who is that well-dressed stranger leaning against that van cleaning his gun?'" It took 5 minutes for things in and out of game to settle down enough before I was able to explain that I would be waiting inside the van, and that I would not be waving my gun arround in either event...

This, in my games, is the difference between Sanctioned and non-sanctioned heroes. Sancioned meta-humans have their IDs registered with the Paranormal Affairs Department. They have recognized code-names (i.e. their Super hero names) and as such, they can give testimony in court while in costume. Non-sancioned metas, however, while tolerated, cannot give testimony in court so long as they insist on concealing who they are. This is why most law enforcement agencies really don't like the non-sanctioned heroes. Yes, they mean well, and have legitimate concerns of privacy and a reasonable fear of the Government - but they are a huge legal headache when it comes to the process of prosecution and keeping the bad-guys in jail.

GM's like Bolo's deserve to be harassed.

Smoot... this name... this is Inspired. Pure Genious. I am in awe. ::bows deeply::

And since I don't think Jehan's player posts on this board, I'll tell the story of his unfortunate quote in a D&D game. Jehan, a wizard, is quite happy and pleased with the Staff of Fire he's recently acquired. So at the start of one adventure, when everyone was just sitting and chilling out, folks are telling me (the DM) what the characters are doing. As Jehan's player seems a bit pre-occupied, I chime in helpfully, "All the while, Jehan sits back and polishes his staff." The others chuckled at this as the player sort of snapped to and said, in all seriousness, "Are you kidding? It might go off!" Everyone lost it, and it took a moment for Jehan to realize exactly what he had just said. The looks of confusion, sudden realization and total embarassment on his face were priceless.

Taking Docman's lead, there's another good quote from that very same V:tM campaign. Drake is trying to teach his new Childe (i.e. someone recently turned into a vampire) Lynn the virtues of the Discipline of Fortitude (i.e. supernatural toughness). As Geofry (the afformentioned English Lunatic) is a big, strong fellow, Drake thinks a simple demonstration would best illustrate things. D: Geofry, hit me. G: Sir? D: I said hit me! Right in the jaw. As hard as you can. Now Geofry regarded Drake as "The General" and had great respect for him besides, so he was very reluctant to give his Commanding Officer anything resembling a real punch. Drake sensed that some motivation was in order. This was when the line was uttered that has oft been quoted in many of our other games: D: Put your back into it, you pansy! THAT did the trick. Of course, it was only made more impressive by the fact that Geofry botched his damage roll. End result, Drake doesn't even flinch as Geofry breaks his hand on Drake's jaw, leaving the new Childe very impressed with her Sire and thinking that learning Fortitude would be a wise thing to do.

Pity, because D&D 3.5 will be out in a few short months...

This was from a recent D&D campaign. 'Flekt' was, at the time, a 4th level dwarven wizard with 9 STR. Consequently, he couldn't hit the floor by falling on it in melee combat. Somebody was giving him a hard time about missing the monster for the 3rd time with his dagger when he lets fly... "I'm a Wizard... I WIZ! No! Wait, that didn't come out right. D'oh! I mean, it comes out alright, just not all the time. Aaa! I didn’t mean it like that... I... er.. oh flaming diarrhea!"

Take full advantage of your own "unkillability". Simply carry a bomb of some kind with lots of shrapanel (an Armor Piercing Explosion RKA) at all time. When "Batman" comes after you again, give him a big bear-hug and detonate the bomb. You'll live... er... survive, and if he doesn't die, he should be weak enough for finishing the job to be cake. And if he bis[/b] tough enough to walk away from that kind of punishment, add some posion to the shrapnel or something.

Lord knows the press can be cruel when they assign names. In one game I was in, we had a tiny lady brick named "Dynamo" who was good in a fight, only she had a nasty temper and had a rep for being a tad brutal. Plus on of her disads was Unluck with regards to the press. As her most frequently heard battle-cry was 'I'm 'onna THUMP you!" she got stuck with the nick-name "Thumper." Heck, even we started calling her that

One time we had a couple in our game, long time gamers, playing Champions since 1st edition, so I had no problems letting them into my 4th Ed game. Problem is, they were both Class A-1 rules rapists. First, for all of their multi-point characteristics (DEX, BODY, CON and EGO) they spent an odd number of character points into the stats, using the logic that since fractions always round up in favor of the character, it gave them full values for the stats (Ex: spend only 1 real point on EGO and insist that because of "Champions math" your EGO of 10.5 rounds up to 11). They said this was a time honored method of point-tweaking in their group and they couldn't understand my objections to it. Then there were the characters themselves. I forget the names, but let's call the husband "Time Dude" and the lady "Flight-Chick". Time Dude had NCM, SPD 3, and gadgets from the future, as he was a displaced time traveler. One of his gizmos was a belt that gave him +3 SPD, another one was a 10d6 EB gun. Flight Chick was a DEX 30 SPD 6 speedster with +6 SPD linked to her flight. I knew she would spend most of her time in the air, but with martial arts, her strongest attack was only 6d6 and not enough OCV to hit anything with a fast move-through, so I let it slide. What made these two dangerous was how they teamed-up. Time Dude would crank it up to SPD 6, and Flight Chick to SPD 12. So, on Segment 12, Time Dude would crank up to SPD 6 and hold his action, Flight Chick goes to SPD 12 and grabs Time Dude. On Phase 1, Flight Chick does a half-move up and waits, Time Dude shoots with his held action, then Flight Chick takes another half move to land someplace under cover. On Phase 2, Flight Chick forces a recovery while Time Dude holds his action again. On Phase 3, Flight Chick does another half move up with Time Dude in hand, who shoots, and then they land again. They simply kept using this pattern over and over again while the rest of the party gaped in disbelief at how cheesy it all was. Perfectly legal and within the rules... but that was the last time they ever gamed with us.

A lady that small with endowments like that... talk about top-heavy! (An amusing flaw from Macho Women with Guns, BTW. I'm sure it could translate very easily into Champions) I once worked with a very small, slender woman with zero figure except for a rather large rack. Actually, on a normal sized woman, they would have been fine. But on her, they looked hu-normous.

In one game I ran, one of my players, in a flaming piece of social commentary, had his civilian ID job listed as PennDOT (Pennsylvania Dept. of Transportation) worker. His rationale? "These are the guys you see at road construction sites, only they're not doing any work other than having lunch. Plus its a union job. If you take off for a few hours in the middle of the day, nobody can do anything about it and you can't get fired." In short, it was the perfect job for a superhero in Pennsylvania, and I couldn't argue with him.

Having started in college with Champs II and III, I gues I qualifiy for the OFL. I've taken the liberty of uploading the six charater outlines from the 4th Edition Champions suppliment... well.. I forget the name of it, but we copied them, blew them up, did touch ups and scanned them. I juts hope I'm not violating any copyrights...

The topic of being totaly invulnerable to a limited tpe of damage (fire, cold, etc.) has come up repeatedly on these boards. Once you get past the nay-sayers who argue that there isn't supposed to be any "total invulnerability" in hero, the two ways I've seen it simulated has been: 1) The extrapolated cost of 100% Resistant Damage Reduction with a Limitation for how rare/common the attack in question is. Your first chart nicely shows that 100% rDR is120 points. As most GM's agree that a Limitation of -1 is in line for Fire Only (for example) this makes the real cost 60 points. 2) Desolidification as an Invulnerability. This is even detailed in FREd - though to make this technically work, you'd need to buy Affects Real World with your STR and other attck powers unless you have GM permission. Still, its a clumsy mechanic. Point being, I like chart #1. I've been charging a flat 60 points for Damge Immunity: (Insert power tpe here) for years. Though in reality, it should probably cost 120 Active Points with a required -1 Limitation.