TheDarkness

This reasoning never works with my wife. Despite the numerous times that my alternate Earth self has reorganized the can goods into my preferred order(in short, real order, versus "lima beans and tomato products DO NOT BELONG IN THE SAME ROWS, DAMNIT!)
 
She will never know what a hero he is on his world. I am lucky he is looking out for me, but until we are seen in the same place at the same time, she doubts my word.

I am jealous of your collections.
 
Your bookshelves, on the other hand, need better brackets.

My beautiful, yet deadly bodyguards do not just make themselves.

I like how the last staff has the first character hanging from it.

I think there is a difference between trying to be PC and trying to make movies that include characters that the viewers will relate to. When the 'Golden Age', and 'Silver Age' both were periods where marketing was mainly toward white folk, the characters from these eras who have had decades to gather diehard followings are going to mostly be white, and any new characters are stuck competing against these as the foundational source material.
 
I see no betrayal by taking characters from a period where depiction of race was, at best, fairly weak, and changing them. Literally, it's not like the entire Justice League and all the characters and supporting characters in the story are being changed to another race, it's actually addressing that exact thing being done in the first place to fit the times.
 
Introducing some minority Justice League member who the other's have seniority on would be a rather weak approach.
 
And WWI or WWII for Wonder Woman makes no difference to me. Why would the Olympians even consider them a separate war?
 
And Freya has no name recognition value as far as marketing a big movie. If you can sell Ant Man, you can sell a any of a number of the goddesses, though pronunciation probably will be an issue(and don't kid yourself, most of the money made on that film was not from die hard Ant Man fans, if there were that many die hard fans, Ant Man would pretty much always have been an ongoing comic series with staying power). In what circles wide enough to pay off a movie budget can everyone name who Freya is?
 
And finally, just to muddy things, the first three X-Men movies were entertaining at the time they came out in exactly the same way other blockbuster action movies were, for the same reason, the level of special effects and action filming that had not grown stale yet, as these things always do. For repeated viewings, they have had the same issues.
 
And I loved Watchmen, except for the fight choreography, which, though outstanding, was thematically totally NOT Watchmen, with the possible exception of the alleyway fight between the KTs and Nite Owl and Silk Spectre. The other fights had the actual fights from the comics, buried in glossy, though excellent, choreography, which took from the dark grit of the comic. And when Comedian jumps off of Archie to take on the mob by himself, I die a little, every time. Overchoreographing required the last fight with Ozymandius to go three steps further to stay ahead of all the other fights, which meant, at the moment he caught the bullet, anyone would assume he could do it.
 
I'll just end by saying that all my above points are clearly right, and so there is no need for us to continue this discussion.

I like comic book movies. BUT, DC is not alone in issues. All of the major Marvel sequels have been lame and riding on the coattails of the originals. And the X-Men based movies have mostly not stood up to repeated viewing for me at all, some I didn't even find interesting the first time, although there are a couple I haven't seen yet that have been recommended by friends, so I'm looking forward to seeing them.
 
This isn't even bringing up Hulk. Outside of The Avengers, there is strong argument to call each attempt a failure. There is no question that the Lou Ferrigno Hulk was more beloved than any other stand alone attempt at the character.
 
The problem for Superman is that fans do not want changes, and non-fans do not want to go see the same thing again. Superman is singular in being THE superhero, very difficult to pull that off at all.
 
Batman has yielded some of the most successful comic book movies for the longest, though there are plenty of dogs, and plenty of mediocre movies from that.

Whatever happened to three men and a baby Jane?
Ferris Bueller's Judgement Day
Requiem for a Dreamscape
No Country for Grumpy Old Men
Some Like IT Hot(Drag queens and evil clowns)

Flash died in the Crisis. Continuity is nonexistent in the comic, I'm pretty forgiving of it in the show. The show would have to work hard to have less continuity than a comic where the second flash, many decades later, is written to have created the first flash, all revealed after the second flash has died and come back. And the entire world the first flash is from has ceased to exist in the same form.
 
And then the speed force. The speed force could simply be renamed speed midichlorians.
 
That said, I love both the comic and the show.

Flash died in the Crisis. Continuity is nonexistent in the comic, I'm pretty forgiving of it in the show. The show would have to work hard to have less continuity than a comic where the second flash, many decades later, is written to have created the first flash, all revealed after the second flash has died and come back. And the entire world the first flash is from has ceased to exist in the same form.
 
And then the speed force. The speed force could simply be renamed speed midichlorians.
 
That said, I love both the comic and the show.

I think that's a matter of, someone writes one thing, and then the internet shares it. Years back, we could simply have a stupid theory, and it was just our stupid theory. Now, it gets shared, and people think a large swath of people follow it.
 
The flip side of PC is that many of the arguments that arise are because one person says something silly, and those who disagree generalize it to all feminists, all Republican/Democrats, all Americans, all Christians, all Atheists. Rarely does this apply, the number of groups in the above list that are in lockstep is very limited. Then, others get sensitive and turn it into 'society is falling apart because xxx', when, in reality, PC takes different forms for each of those groups. Anyone who thinks they don't practice political correctness is living an illusion.

Flash died in the Crisis. Continuity is nonexistent in the comic, I'm pretty forgiving of it in the show. The show would have to work hard to have less continuity than a comic where the second flash, many decades later, is written to have created the first flash, all revealed after the second flash has died and come back. And the entire world the first flash is from has ceased to exist in the same form.
 
And then the speed force. The speed force could simply be renamed speed midichlorians.
 
That said, I love both the comic and the show.

Hmm, I don't know if I've heard anyone demanding this particular reskinning, but I have seen very positive reactions to a proposal to flip roles (Zelda is a hero who must save prince Link)
http://dresdencodak.com/2013/04/11/the-legend-of-zelda-clockwork-empire/
 
I also have seen proposals to reskin other characters.   for example to remake James Bond as Jane Bond
http://www.themarysue.com/dame-diana-rigg-lesbian-bond/
 
So I would say that some reskinning is positive, especially if it is done as its own story rather than as a side character in the original story (Thor as Woman is better than Batgirl). It at least allows women to be more present in the medium, which is important as the roster of top heroes is a little ossified. It's a lot easier to say that Captain America is Black now than it is to create a new black superhero and make him exceedingly popular.
 
It will never be possible to satisfy all the feminists.  The group is too diverse, wanting too many things in too many grades.  Even if all the superheroes were replaced with original concept lady superheroes, some feminists (Sarkeesian, I believe) don't want heroes who use violence at all.  So, accept that we won't ever be good enough because there is no good enough. But Reskinning can be good, and should not interfere with attempts to make original female heroes

Additionally, playing up the resurrections that are Link could open new opportunities. Doctor Who is a good example of a story that used multiple incarnations(regenerations) of the same character in the same story.

A few things.
 
The reason I used the examples of Batgirl and Supergirl before retconning(something I tried to make clear, but probably understated) was because they are more germane to the discussion. Linkie is not a unique character. Linkie is a Link knockoff. Aside from the weapon, nothing has changed, except that the character is not the main hero of any story, but a skin added to an already existing game ported to a game system.
 
Further stories involving later writers writing Batgirl and Supergirl dealt with changing markets and changing views. That Linkie more resembles the sort of attempt at this done when Wonder Woman was the Justice League's secretary(because, you know, there couldn't be a better use of someone who can get the truth out of anyone) suggests that this is a fair criticism of the Linkie character: the fact that it is decades behind similar media in how the attempt was done.
 
Now, I totally agree with certain aspects of what you are saying. As soon as we make 'Bat-Amerasian', the referent is always going to be the main thing.
 
Markdoc addressed the issue of derivative characters(not clones at all) far better than I could. The main difference I will cite is that, while you are correct, the derivative characters will not be able to compete, the original characters have other characters that, from early on, both in their parent company and outside, there would be heated argument whether they could beat them. Batman or Captain America, Captain America or Wolverine(before Wolverine became ridiculous), Hulk and Superman. If Batgirl can't beat Batman, we know she can't beat other characters that assume are on a par with Batman. In this manner, the female characters, for decades, were never the equal of the male characters in their same category, because as soon as Supergirl is seen as tougher than the Hulk, she is tougher than Superman. So the problem becomes, if you use derivative characterization to market to women, you place a clear ceiling on their effectiveness to prevent harming the main property, the character they are derived from*. Now, if later, they turn Linkie into something more, they will have to more and more differentiate her from Link.
 
However, on another related point, Link was never one person, so it is not 'penis chopping' if SOME incarnations are not male, it's true to the character as written, if not yet realized.
 
Yes, there are many female heroines. BUT, Link is the primary hero, the lead hero, the flagship of the brand, as it were. There are plenty of stories with many female supporting characters/heroes, and a male lead, and there are no shortage of those that are entirely sexist in tone. To use another example, there are plenty of stories of indigenous people saved by white heroes whose characters, at least the heroic ones, are mostly indigenous. There's also Tom Cruise saving the samurai. This has generally been rightly criticized for similar reasons. You can have plenty of heroic characters of one type in a story, and still end up making them window dressing for the lead character.
 
As for what Linkie is, the game designer, as quoted in that article, is quite clear, that this is a market test of whether a larger female role in the future will sell. And, I would say, if she is Link, there is really no reason not to just call her Link and show some daring.
 
Either backing a new female character that they were going to put in as the lead hero in a big game(not a ported game with the character added as a market test), or simply making Link incarnate as a woman, would have been better than making a knock off of Link.
 
Finally, the character was not, according to the sources as far as I'm aware, made to appease to anyone(the appease argument is, itself, a bit of a narrative, I would point out, not that it does not ever happen). It was made to test the market to see if a larger role for female characters was economically viable, using women who buy the games as a test market. Since, as you point out, there are already many female heroines in the story, the only thing they could be testing is a female main hero. Except they had no reason not to use Link. Other than fear of loss of revenue for making Link female. So they made a knock off. They may very well later turn Linkie into something more, but as it stands, Linkie is entirely a knockoff, derivative character used to make their own customers prove whether or not they will buy game if they make the lead hero a woman sometimes in their flagship games. If we are referring to what is modern, we can only discuss Linkie as she has been presented, not the Linkies that may yet be. And what we have is a woman in a Batman outfit in a non-flagship character role with a few small cosmetic differences from the main character, but totally wearing his clothes and bearing his name.
 
*A totally unrelated point, but the Supergirl/Superman thing always bugged me. The difference in mass between men and women has certain physical effects, but there is no reason to assume that, if your powers are derived from yellow suns, that your pecs have any bearing whatsoever on your strength. Supergirl should totally be on equal footing with Superman unless he's somehow getting more yellow sun. /rant

How did you come up with your 'handle' (forum name)? I'm just not very imaginative...
What was the first tabletop RPG you played? Basic D&D, probably around '82
What was the first tabletop RPG you GMed? Same game. Didn't know anyone who played, ran games for my cousins and friends
What are you currently playing/GMing? Preparing a Champions campaign and a Dark Champions campaign

Frozen: Song of Fire and Ice
 
Back to School Musical
 
Sid and Nancy Drew
 
Malcolm X-men
 
Being There and back again

The Adventures of Buckaroo Bonzai
 
The Golden Child
 
Dark City(more noir than pulp)
 
L.A. Confidential(noir I guess, not really pulp)
 
The Mouth of Madness(Lovecraftian, perhaps more noir and horror than pulp, but, as far as I'm concerned, one of the few stories to come anywhere close to getting anything like the Lovecraft feel)

Comic book storylines that have existed for more than ten years, with or without time travel, have equal or less continuity than time travel stories.

Comic book storylines that have existed for more than ten years, with or without time travel, have equal or less continuity than time travel stories.

It's a Mad, Mad Max
 
The Interview With a Vampire(featuring two hours of Gene Hackman as an NSA agent viewing video clips of people talking to vampires who don't show up on video)
 
Ferris Bueller's Day the Earth Stood Still
 
Them and It, a buddy picture about an evil clown and a giant ant
 
Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince of Tides
 
Star Trek, The Voyage Home for the Holidays
 
Mr. Smith Goes to The Matrix
 
Watchmen Behaving Badly
 
Superman Bites Dog
 
What's Eating Gilbert Grapes of Wrath (very dark)

It's a Mad, Mad Max
 
The Interview With a Vampire(featuring two hours of Gene Hackman as an NSA agent viewing video clips of people talking to vampires who don't show up on video)
 
Ferris Bueller's Day the Earth Stood Still
 
Them and It, a buddy picture about an evil clown and a giant ant
 
Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince of Tides
 
Star Trek, The Voyage Home for the Holidays
 
Mr. Smith Goes to The Matrix
 
Watchmen Behaving Badly
 
Superman Bites Dog
 
What's Eating Gilbert Grapes of Wrath (very dark)

It's a Mad, Mad Max
 
The Interview With a Vampire(featuring two hours of Gene Hackman as an NSA agent viewing video clips of people talking to vampires who don't show up on video)
 
Ferris Bueller's Day the Earth Stood Still
 
Them and It, a buddy picture about an evil clown and a giant ant
 
Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince of Tides
 
Star Trek, The Voyage Home for the Holidays
 
Mr. Smith Goes to The Matrix
 
Watchmen Behaving Badly
 
Superman Bites Dog
 
What's Eating Gilbert Grapes of Wrath (very dark)

It's a Mad, Mad Max
 
The Interview With a Vampire(featuring two hours of Gene Hackman as an NSA agent viewing video clips of people talking to vampires who don't show up on video)
 
Ferris Bueller's Day the Earth Stood Still
 
Them and It, a buddy picture about an evil clown and a giant ant
 
Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince of Tides
 
Star Trek, The Voyage Home for the Holidays
 
Mr. Smith Goes to The Matrix
 
Watchmen Behaving Badly
 
Superman Bites Dog
 
What's Eating Gilbert Grapes of Wrath (very dark)