Brian Stanfield

Or the security specialist could be working with some experimental technology at the research facility, when suddenly . . . . He'd have a bunch of gadgets to choose from, and he'd have a bunch of skills to supplement their use.

It seems like you already have a martial artist-Dark Champions type of character already built into your plot. I'd run with that. If all else fails, use the Quick Character Generator from Champions 5e, beginning on page 81. I thought there was a download of that section, but I can't find it, and since we can't search the store anymore I'm not sure I'll ever find it again.

I'll be jumping on at least one of these. HERO events are always few and far between. Rod Curry usually runs a couple of Champions events at Origins, and sometimes more. You may want to contact him for some suggestions.

I didn't see that. What is paper armor? Is it laminated layers of paper, like the Greek linen armor, or is there something else involved? On a similar note, I was always fascinated by the silk arrow capes in Bushido that billowed out behind a horseman and stopped arrows with a cushion of air.

Your first link isn't showing anything: can you check it again? Regardless, this is the same conclusion I made. The hinge tape comes in several varieties, and I've talked to several book people and done a lot of reading, and it all seems to point to the same solution. How's the tape holding up? And how's the end-paper and spine holding up? After cutting the cover off my copy of 6e1, I realized why the books are all failing: The glue is horrible and cracks apart. Everyone knows this issue. The book construction itself is half-baked. The spine is glued directly to the cover, and there are no actual hinges holding the text to the cover. So combined with bad glue, the moment one opens the book the pages are forced away from the spine as the book flexes open. The only thing holding the book together is the weakest part of the construction, and the only remaining part holding the text block in is the end-paper itself. This resembles the "perfect binding" of paperback books, but because it has a hard cover the pages behave differently and the covers can't move the way they need. That's what I've discovered so far. I'm going to experiment with hinging the text block to the boards themselves and avoiding the spine altogether. Thanks for the Input!

I'd forgotten about this. Have you watched the video of their arrow tests? It's rather amazing how resilient this armor is. However, while it stops arrows, it shows wear pretty obviously, so you'd have to have armor breakage rules to simulate the tears that accumulate over many attacks. I'd agree with 4rPD, but with a chance of failure after use. Perhaps an activation role on a scale with how many times it's been hit?

I've found all kinds of stuff about book binding repair, and talked to my librarian friend about it as well. I'm going to try to repair it on my own. I'll let you now how it goes.

I was wondering about something like movement as well as SPD penalties. The SPD is pretty harsh, so maybe just DEX penalties that affect the order to act if everyone has the same SPD. I'm just spitballing at this point, and trying to gather ideas.

I got another used copy for table use, but I'd like to repair the binding at some point so it will last longer. Has anyone had any luck trying to repair the binding on 6e1?

I actually want just the opposite, hence the original post. I'm looking for, as Chris suggests, more down-to-earth constraints to armor. Low fantasy, I guess, if I have to label it.

Those are all great points. Here's one thing I've been considering, and would like to get some ideas about it because it's potentially very punitive: actually reducing SPD when the weight of armor surpasses a certain % of the character's STR. I thought about reducing DEX, and in terms of figured characteristics in 5e and before, this would amount to a reduced SPD, but they've been unlinked in 6e, so I've been thinking about what sort of actual penalties might apply to armor. As you point out, the weight itself is not as much as myth tells us, but in the first link I gave in the OP they suggest that the weight on the legs alone would, as you say, at the very least reduce the rate of movement. But would it reduce the number of moves (SPD)? Is that even reasonable to consider for a campaign ground rule?

I just saw two documentaries that are really changing my mind on these issues of armor and weapon interactions! Reclaiming the Blade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hLMExBQAbk Back to the Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmTi-NGQNh8 Just FYI.

If you look at the link I give in the OP, it suggests that although armor was equally distributed, there was a great deal of weight on the legs, which made the whole affair more burdensome. If you imagine hiking with a large pack, and then add 5 pound weights to each ankle, you get the idea. So it could have been a lot more tiring that previously thought. But not as bad as the myths about full plate being too heavy to move. So, I'm trying to develop a city-based campaign, perhaps using Valdorian Age and a cross between the city of Elweir and Sanctuary from the Thieves' World series of books. In general, armor just doesn't belong in a city, as discussed in this thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/95995-why-are-you-wearing-that/. I'd like there to be real tradeoffs for wearing armor. I think the DEX penalties for stealth alone would be a good start, but since it's a gritty, dark sort of setting for hero level characters, I'd like it to be more skill-driven than hack-and-slash-driven. More ideas would be a great help!

Next up in my series of questions that get shot down: how much does armor actually affect movement? I'd like to encourage my players to opt towards less, not more armor, and would like to emphasize the encumbrance penalties of armor. Although I know of the perpetual myths of plate mail being so heavy that knights had to be lifted onto their horses, etc., there are some real encumbrance issues to consider: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/07/heavy-armor-gave-knights-workout. What are some good ways to get my warrior-types to max out on full plate armor? DEX penalties seem like a good idea, but won't affect combat as much. Actual DEX reduction would be interesting in a 5e or earlier campaign since it would affect SPD as well. But in a 6e campaign without figured characteristics, this isn't as easy to figure out. Does it make sense to actually reduce SPD because armor is heavier? Or is that too punitive? Would DEX penalties, encumbrance based on casual STR, and Long Term Endurance be enough of a disincentive? Besides, how often would characters actually be wearing their armor anyway? It seems more appealing to build characters with no armor in mind rather than depending on armor to be effective. Some of your own experience on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure if you've gotten the answer you're looking for yet, but when I ordered the book and pdf I got the full color 6e hardcover.

Is there a way to search the Store as before? The "search" feature doesn't allow for searching for items, even when using the "all content" option. Thanks in advance, brain

There's actually another problem with the store refusing to ship to people. When I tried to order a book it said that they could not ship to my address in Illinois. Someone else posted with the same problem here: Any idea what's going on?

I got the same thing with Ghosts, Ghouls and Golems. I haven't heard back yet about how it'll get resolved.

I have it and a few others, and they're so old they're falling apart. They were all cheesy little books that look like they were produced on a typewriter and run on a mimeograph, but the material is so wonderful, and I didn't really care how it looked in the '80s. I should look at the new edition and see if it's any easier to read.

Funny thing is, I've had that book for over 30 years and forgot all about how useful it is. It actually does what Doc was suggesting with modifications to the armor rather than the weapons.

But dang it, I'm trying to get everyone else to decide for me!

So let me ask this: is there a difference, realistically, between a sword "slash," an axe "chop," a crossbow bolt's "pierce," or a mace's "crush" against plate mail? Do they have the same effect, or is there a distinguishable difference?

That's really funny Chris, because my mind went to Phoenix Command as well, and I had a horrible experience with that! But the idea of crushing plate mail, as you say, or piercing chain mail, is partly what got my mind going. Do you see any difference between a sword chopping or stabbing against plate? As LoneWolf and you both say, it may be unnecessary bookkeeping, and may even be unfairly applied. But I'm just brainstorming at this point and am hoping for some ideas I hadn't considered. Im starting to lean toward players using the powers rules to design their own weapons, with very clearly defined damage types, advantages, and disadvantages. The weapons table in FH6e is built this way anyway, so I may let them figure out their own granularity.

And here I thought this was going to be a fun conversation.

In all reality, all the weapons are built from the powers, so I could have each character build his or her own weapon(s) through the powers, and then give them the "real weapon" disadvantage. On a weapon-by-weapon basis, this would be the best possible solution. That way you could define your own weapon's damage type and the ways in which it could be used. This could be a lot of fun! However, I love charts! My own personal preference. When I look at a weapons chart such as in FH6e, I look at the variation and wonder if there is a way to give them even more variation. This is again a personal preference. HERO System is designed to accommodate personal preference, and maybe it's important to re-emphasize that each GM will build his own game differently. There is no one "official" way to do Fantasy Hero. I'm simply exploring some more ways to look at it. As far as realism goes in the game, I'm exploring some more ways to analyze the interaction between weapons and armor. I would point out, as far as realism goes, a weapon familiarity with all melee weapons is fairly ludicrous in terms of "realism." One can't, in the real world, be an expert of all weapons available. I'm more inclined to limit martial arts styles to single weapons to represent this. If you want to use a second weapon with a martial arts style, then you would have to pay for it. As far as the "you get what you pay for" concept goes, it seems fairly abusive to pay a few points that then encompass all possible weapons in a group. Again, this is just my own preference, and my ground rules would reflect this in my own campaign. That being said, LoneWolf, I agree with your observation about a sword being versatile and a sword master having many options at hand. I'm not trying to limit that, and I don't want to take away the versatility of the weapon. This is of course discussed in FH6e, but I want to go beyond that discussion. In those terms, stabbing with a sword is not the same as piercing. It is still considered slashing, and so isn't limited to any sort of maneuver. Regardless, Fantasy Hero isn't so granular that it isolates each maneuver, paired with a weapon type, versus armor. I'm not trying to isolate individual maneuvers, which seems pretty tedious. A haymaker with a sword could be many different things. A battle axe is given as an example in the book. It's primary use is to chop (slash, in their definition). Perhaps the axe has a spike on the opposite side of the blade. The spike may be considered piercing damage, but it isn't the primary mode of damage. Perhaps it gets a penalty for being more awkward because it's the backside of the weapon. There are other ways to account for this, and I'm curious about how it could be done. Someone trained in the use of a battle axe would understand its basic principles. But if used in a non-standard way, with different kinds of damage, I'm inclined to consider it a different kind of weapon familiarity. I would consider adding a 1 point familiarity to that single weapon type to make its application more versatile, much like Doc suggests. If there is a martial art style with the weapon, I'd require another maneuver in the style to account for a non-standard way of using it. Now, what does this do to things like a bash with the butt-end of a sword? Or prodding with the tip of the sword? How about slapping with the flat of the blade? I don't know. I haven't figured that out yet, hence this post. More ideas would be welcome.