Brian Stanfield

Unfortunately, 4e is the only book I don't have at this point. Does this example exist in any of the other editions?

I looked everywhere and only found paper copies. The one I got, in fact, was a little bit blurry on some pages because the register was a little bit off. I would love to have a clean digital copy, but alas, I don't think it exists.

Is there anything in the Lucha Libre book/pdf in the store?

These are great resources! It gives me a lot to think about. How do you think it all plays out in terms of OCV/DCV modifiers?

This fits in with what I'm inclined to rule. I looked up your page reference, and it's a pretty broad range of stuff, although the CV modifiers chart is on p. 41. When you say -4/-8, are you looking at any rule in particular (range modifier, etc.), or are you generalizing from the overall feel of the rules?

I'm inclined to agree with you. It makes good intuitive sense, and while the range modifiers kick in at 9 meters, the DCV penalty is high enough that it would be foolish to go prone that close. At 9 meters it would make more sense to dive for cover because the shooter would only have a -1 OCV penalty, but at 33 meters the OCV penalty is high enough at -5 that in a heroic setting it would outweigh my DCV penalty.

Why not?! Because he's The Creeper!

Dont forget that falling is acceleration per segment, not just movement. To be falling at terminal velocity, you shall have fallen at least 210 meters before you reach that velocity.

This is an interesting metagame issue. I don't know if this is similar to what you are concerned with, but I was coincidentally looking at 4e Horror Hero this week, and the rules for horror are called "stress." There are different sources for stress, and different consequences that straddle between short term, long term and permanent. I don't have the book handy right now, but is that what you're pondering? Or am, I totally off?

I didn't even catch that. Thanks for the clarification!

The question becomes at what distance these rules cover this situation. At 2 meters being prone is an obvious disadvantage. At what distance does the prone target gain the benefits of his position?

I was thinking the same thing, but I was going to suggest the same problem about something you suggested earlier about a "line of products."

Prone leaves one at 1/2 DCV regardless of range, even when common sense tells us that "hitting the dirt" to reduce one's silhouette should in fact increase one's DCV after a certain distance away.

So in other words, I'm misremembering a clear solution to this problem? I could have sworn there was a discussion about this, but I may be wrong.

I know I've seen this as a conversation before, but I just can't track it down. Forgive the duplicate question. ​Common sense and dramatic sensibilities tell us that when you are out in the open and someone is trying to shoot you from a distance, you drop down to the ground to make your silhouette smaller, thus making you harder to hit (whether it's an OCV drop or DCV increase is moot to me, since it all comes out in the wash). However, being prone is a flat 1/2 DCV penalty. My question is this: at what distance should it actually become a DCV bonus (or OCV penalty for the shooter)? Some considerations: If I drop to the ground 1 meter away, I would obviously be easier to hit if someone had a gun. Or even HtH for that matter. 10 meters away still seems reasonable to consider me 1/2 DCV. At 20 meters, it seems to go either way: maybe it's a hindrance, maybe a benefit. Target shooting at 20 meters in a combat situation isn't all that easy. By the time I get to ranges on the range modifier table (16m, 32m, 64m, etc.) and the OCV penalties start kicking in, it seems like the DCV penalty shouldn't be applied anymore since distance is a hindrance, and a smaller silhouette is a benefit. ​Has anybody worked this out? At what distance should "hitting the dirt" be considered a benefit, not a hindrance?

I saw last year that High Rock Press was planning on releasing Danger International again. I wonder what the policy is with DOJ for re-writing and re-releasing older books? Doing a new Western Hero or Justice Inc. in the mold of Monster Hunters International, along with great campaign/adventure books like Justice Inc. ​had in its original box, could be really interesting projects. I know licensing is fairly easy with DOJ, but what if it involves previously owned intellectual property? Anybody know?

That's interesting. There were a lot of good Westerns popping up in the late '80s and early '90s: Silverado, Pale Rider, Young Guns I & II, and Unforgiven to name a few off the top of my head. Heck, even Back to the Future III! It seems like Western Hero was a well-timed product. This is what I was trying to say a couple of pages ago in terms of marketing & licensing opportunities. Heck, just looking at the trends of sci-fi, fantasy and urban fantasy today seems like it would make for some great gaming opportunities.

See the 5 point doubling rule in 5er, p. 456. In short, if you build equipment with powers, you can double it with an extra 5 points.

Western Hero is a really good resource if you're interested in what a gritty, realistic HERO campaign can look like. I don't own the 4e rules, so I can't check everything they suggest, but they are very explicit in using the alternative order of events in combat, absolutely no multiple attacks, even two handed shooting (along with realistic explanations as to why), specific weapon rules, etc. It's a model for a lethal campaign, as much as any GURPS game I've ever played.

By way of a strange coincidence, I got Western Hero in the mail today, and as I looked it over I saw that they have a survey on the last page asking all these same exactquestions we've been discussing about artwork, adventures, etc. I don't know if they got much of a response, but it was interesting to note that they were paying attention to these things in 4e and open to changing their approach.

Perhaps nobody has quit HERO because it's too ugly, true enough, but they're already playing, which is not the problem I see. How many new people started playing HERO because they happened to see it on the shelf and liked what they found? The 6e core books look sharp, but are intimidating, which is also an aesthetic concern in terms of presentation. I only presented the artwork as one of several related aesthetic issues to be fixed. I'm guessing most new players who weren't scared off by hasty word-of-mouth mis-perceptions of HERO System were also introduced by people already experienced in HERO who could translate it for them and soft-start them in a game. But how many people have picked up the game at their flgs and learned it cold? Heck, how many flgs's actually stock HERO games anymore? The past few pages have been about getting new people into the system, not, as zslane points out, to please the tribe of people already devoted to the system. the health of HERO System depends on a new generation of players. 800 pages of HERO rules is only for devotees. I'm probably in the minority, but I actually LOVE the 6e core rule books! No joke! They totally appeal to my DIY nerdiness! As pheonix240 points out, that is exactly why some of us are devoted to HERO System. My position here, however, is that good looking game/campaign/adventure books that entice new folks is what will help keep HERO not just alive, but hopefully growing.

Good point. And thanks! Membership accepted. I ne'er thought of myself as part of this tribe: you're all more knowledgable and accomplished at HERO than I am. It's almost as satisfying as my box of Empire Club pins! True enough. I think it's the "right out of the box" that we need to focus on, with some catchy adventures and plot seeds in a world that promises more to come. I don't need to explain dragons, demons, mastermind criminals or Nazi plots at the beginning, merely hint at their being there for future exploration. I guess I'm thinking of my first experience of reading The Hobbit: all I knew was the Shire at first, with a strange wizard and some dwarves. No explanation needed: I was hooked. The promise of a dragon only lured me on, and then all these other things happened along the way that I didn't see coming. I didn't need to know the rest of Middle Earh to enjoy it, let alone read the Silmarillion beforehand to understand it.

Sorry, I'm not questioning your taste. Your point, like Mrinku's on Champions 3e, is well made. The comic book layout was dazzling, more so in New Millennium. I agree that this concept should be used more. Justice Inc. and Pulp Hero(to a lesser extent) used images from the time period to spice up the text. That principle could have been applied to all their products a lot more, imho. Good artwork is a good hook for indecisive and wandering eyes.

No worries. I was getting ahead of myself anyway.

In lieu of being able to "like" your post, I'll just say, "I like this post."