Brian Stanfield

Hmmm . . . Maybe this is worth asking Steve Long directly to see how he did the builds? Now I'm curious myself . . . .

What are some of the numbers problems in the 6e guide? I haven't gone through it very thoroughly since it's basically an exact replica of the 5e Equipment Guide with new stats.

The prop bets alone could rake in tons of cash!

Ask this guy, he knows:

I'll add another random thought or two: Modern air traffic has routes regulated at different elevations to avoid mid-air mishaps. You may consider having low altitude "local" traffic, and mid-altitude personal flight devices (or any other sort of flight like wings, for that matter), and higher altitude international and trade routes. You may consider air ports outside of the city limits to cut down on the traffic, or you may have certain air traffic control towers where air travelers are required to check in. Again, at different altitudes to minimize traffic bottlenecks. You may also consider having air ships dock at specific towers, to be offloaded and "parked" elsewhere by some sort of aviation enforcement agency. Air travel could check in at the city, and then have valets or some such folks place the vehicles in dedicated and protected port facilities. I'd think this would have to include pegasūs and dragons, etc., as well, since who wants a dragon hitched outside of the local tavern (see drunkonduty's observation about arson). That's all I've got on my mind for now. This is a great idea! I like the possibilities!

I don't know if you remember this, but early last year or late 2016 High Rock Press announced plans for an updated Danger International in late 2017. I think the Champions character creation cards are on the front burner at this point (very close to being ready), but perhaps if there's enough buzz we could fast-track the DI reissue.

Glen, this is awesome! I had dreams of doing something similar myself, but even more brief than yours. The one thing you most definitely got right is including the package deals at the beginning! I gave my buddy a copy of Fantasy Hero Complete a year ago, and he was overwhelmed (this is why I started that thread at the time). One of the problems is that he was looking for some reference point on how to make a character: what should be included, what sort of skills, what sort of background, etc., but the package deals are buried in the back of the book. You've made them a central part of creating a character for beginners, which is a really useful strategy. You also include the tables showing relative power levels (heroic vs. superheroic, etc.), as well as the starting values for the characteristics. This is not readily obvious when looking at a character sheet in FHC. In fact, as a beginner's book it really seems to assume a lot more player knowledge than should be expected for a beginner. I love what you've done. I plan on, one day, writing something similar but even more brief. More like Xotl's Fantasy Hero Primer, but less directed and more general. I think a quick 30 page document outlining the character building process, including some guidance on package deals, racial and professional packages, etc., along with a general but less detailed discussion of the skills and powers would be useful. In essence, I want to write a companion to Fantasy Hero Complete that will simplify the character creation process, and give a tour of the game along with page references to the book for more details. Although I like the book, it follows the same format that HERO has used for decades, and it's not necessarily intuitive. New, and I mean brand new, players really need something to translate the book for them. The combat stuff is easy to understand, for the most part, so can be summarized really quickly. But I think a rundown of all the different rolls and how they are calculated is a must. A sample combat is also a really useful tool for newbies to get a feel for the game. Anyway, that's the long version of "Awesome! Thanks!"

That's good news! Thanks for keeping us posted.

I started looking at historical European martial arts and various other things and quickly discovered how vast that subject is. As you say, it's way beyond what most players want. I just like to ask these sorts of questions as a way to play out the HERO System and see how it would look. I don't expect to use something so complicated, but I'm curious what it would look like. I think Cantriped's Multipowers approach might be the best simulation, but that becomes a whole problem of nesting categories within categories: which attack vs. which armor vs. which Advantages vs. which Limitations, etc. etc. It could be fun as an experiment for one battle, but not as a long-term campaign device.

Probably Jason Walters is your guy. I suspect the proprietary content may be an issue, but you never know.

Yes indeed. Thanks, Glen. I loved that thread, but it didn't produce as much as I had hoped. Xotl's Fantasy Hero Primer was a positive result from all of that, but wasn't quite what I had in mind. I'd be curious to see what you're doing with it. FH Basic is more like what I imagined. If you've ever seen the GURPS Lite download, it pretty much goes through all the rules in 35 or so pages IIRC. It's perfect, and I read it and felt like I was ready to play in less than an hour. HERO could really use something like this, I think. Although Fantasy Hero Complete is a good basic book, it's still a bit much for someone totally new. When I told my buddy I'd like to start a campaign using it, he looked at the book and totally melted down. He was ready to learn all the rules, and it's not intuitively laid out for someone used to Pathfinder or D&D to follow: "Where are the classes?" "Where are the weapons charts?" "Is there an equipment list?" The answer to each of these was that I wasn't totally sure and he'd have to dig around to find them. Yeesh. That's partly my fault for not having mastered the book, but it's just not intuitive. The magic system isn't introduced until much, much later in the book, which just seems silly to me. Anyway, I think that I'm looking at setting up a campaign like you describe: a low fantasy/low magic campaign. Wizards won't be as "well-rounded" with lots of skills and things, but since they also don't need a lot of points spent on Characteristics, it frees them up to get more spells. This seems, to me, to be a good way to introduce the game to beginners. A wide open campaign with lots of crazy magic and crypto-magical abilities quickly makes it harder to get a grasp of for beginners.

That's some good stuff, and pretty much fits what I was originally considering. I like the Multipower approach. It makes a lot of sense, and is pretty exciting to consider. However, as you say, this is a nightmare of bookkeeping, and would best be saved as an experiment for very experienced players who want to play around with granular combat rules.

Interesting. I like that as a possible talent to add to the list.

I think the idea here is to have multiple versions of the same spell without having to pay the full cost for each one. I was going to ask if the "Magic" limitation was still required in the newer version of Fantasy Hero. I think the Dispel example answers that question for me. Things like "detect magic" would, I suppose, require this limitation for each spell in the first place. Thanks for bringing that up. As for what you say about the VPP, that's great stuff, and makes perfect sense. But the problem becomes how to explain all that to someone who's never played any HERO System game before. I suppose I could just build it for them and make modifications as they grow, but I'm trying to find a good way to introduce magic to newbies. VPP is just about the worst case scenario. This is primarily why I tried to find a skill-based approach, although I mucked it up with too many new rules right out of the gate to make it just as daunting for someone unfamiliar with the game mechanics.

Did you happen to look at drunkonduty's magic system file? He had a great idea of only charging for the difference in cost for a new version of an existing skill. I like that a lot. I mentioned that I had built a Multipower system before, and in that I basically had separate Multipowers for each school of magic someone studied: fire school, necromancy, etc. The MP represented each magic tome, so I had all sorts of limitations set for re-arranging the slots, making new spells, etc., based on OAF, extra time for study, etc. I got hung up on the cost for each MP Reserve, though, and so it got costly too. But I just saw an alternate rule basing the MP slots on Real Cost rather than Active Points, which would allow the Reserve to be smaller. So short story long, I may just go back to that. If I allow new slots to be added by paying the difference in cost of one that exists (like drunkonduty's system) then it can become quite cost effective. This is the crux of the problem, isn't it? I suppose if I'm trying to teach to new people I could just start with the standard Fantasy Hero Complete system to begin with, and pre-gen or highly packaged characters, and not worry about any of these decisions until they decide they want to do more advanced stuff. Yeah, we were discussing roleplaying in this thread and coming up with ways to improve roleplaying interaction. It seems magic is one of those things that should inspire some good narrative fun, but most people just point and shoot without much thought. But I attribute that to "kids these days." Get off my lawn!

I forgot to bring that up. And highway 80 is Interstate 80, so not a lonely state highway, no matter what anybody says! ?

Unfortunately there are no Waffle Houses in Iowa. ?

Good point. I may be overthinking things and worrying where there is no need. I always played with Multipowers or VPPs. I've never done a simple "buy the spells as if they are powers" approach because it seems so expensive. But I guess that's why the cost/3 or cost/5 has become so common. In fact, the cost/5 ends out basically being like a Multipower without a Reserve or slots, just the cost savings. Thanks for you input!

I had fun reading this, and may flat out steal it for my local gaming group! New people at a con take some time to learn the rules (see "HERO in two pages") and get used to each other. If you keep the fire to their feet (remember, the full moon is ONE DAY AWAY!) I think you could get them through in 4 hours. The first zombie encounter could become a time suck for first-time players, so prepare some standard combat maneuvers for them to default to. The sudden call from (insert NPC here) is a great way to move to a new scene if things start dragging. Good of luck and let us know how it goes!

Hey, drunkonduty, I finally had a chance to look through your magic document. I like it! It's simple and clean and makes good sense. I especially like that sorcerers pay only the difference in cost for an improved spell. I hadn't thought of this at all, and it fits in perfectly with what I was wanting to do with he Spell Research skill but couldn't quite work out. Thanks for sharing it. By the way, what is Fantasy Hero Basic? Is that a beginners document you're working on?

Great criticisms all around, and well explained, but can you help me out with some solutions? Or at least some ideas to help me move forward? Because right now I feel like I just need to scrap the whole thing. What type of magic do you use in Fantasy Hero?

Yeah, this is why I hate expendable foci. The Grimoire allows for adjusting the Advantages and Limitations, so it's not a totally lost cause. I like the Grimoire for good ideas, and for showing newbies how a spell is built. This is another good point, and definitely a selling point for me with Fantasy Hero. When I've been saying that the wizards are potentially unbalanced, the obvious solution to limiting their spells is to do as you say and give them some other combat skills. Heck, a wizard with a staff for his OAF could also make that a staff sling, for example, and hurl rocks as hist standard combat maneuver. The flexibility is awesome, and encourages players to think outside of traditional cliches in fantasy gaming.

This is exactly the sort of thing that made me switch to Fantasy HERO back in the '80s. This is most definitely not D&D stuff. I love the possibilities offered in HERO System.

I think we're in agreement about he off-stage part of the narrative. You're helping me see how to simplify things for beginners when it comes to these issues. I agree with you on this in principle. It's why I switched to Fantasy Hero back in 1987ish. D&D just had too many assumptions that I didn't agree with. But I do, however, feel that a wizard at higher "levels" is just more powerful. I get that the experienced warrior has lots of skill levels, tricks, etc., but having a spell that can clear a room of orcs with AOE, selective, AP, NND advantages is just inherently more powerful. I think a wizard ought to work up to that level, but again, that's just my preference. This is why I'm trying to find a way to cap their growth. A beginner may not have a lot of other skills because his points will be used in spells, and as he grows perhaps he can add other skills that he sees necessary. This is a good idea. I'm curious to see how it would play out! This is a great curve ball! It's getting at some of the issues I've been wrestling with. The board game version of Civilization has technology trees, and you only have access to higher techs if you've already developed lower level techs from different areas. This was suggested in FH6 as a possible way of doing things, and it hadn't really appealed to me until now. It's at least got some really interesting potential. Your delayed blast swarm of fireballs is exactly on point! What I'm trying to avoid, ultimately, and I didn't put this is the original post, is that I don't really want to dole out free spells but rather come up with a way that players have to pay for each spell. But this obviously gets really expensive. Perhaps I go with the Real Cost/5 convention. I don't know. I was hoping spell research would be where things could get interesting, but it also could get expensive. I wonder, how would you define "mastery" in Fire Magic? A set skill level, a certain number of points spent, or something else? This is another one of those issues I haven't been able to settle on. As always, thanks for the feedback!

I'm surprised you haven't heard from anyone yet. The forums are usually full of all sorts of suggestions. As a player of both systems, my impression is that it would be virtually impossible to convert one system into the other. You'd have to have a mastery of each system and make anecdotal comparisons between systems. The skills, for example, are similar but not the same. Advancement in GURPS is linked to the difficulty of the skill, which doesn't have a correlation in HERO. The character points don't have equivalent values either, so you'd really have to just make an arbitrary judgment on how they may compare. To start off with, you should read Champions Complete to get a base for the game. It is the current iteration of the 6e rules, and is a streamlined version of the 6e1 and 6e2 books. Your initial reaction that HERO handles powers (and magic) better is, I think, a correct one and so is worth the effort to learn. When you come up with questions, keep coming back to the forums because folks usually can't help but give lots of advice. The great thing about HERO is that you can get 5 solutions to the same problem, and none of them are wrong. Good luck.