PhilFleischmann

I remember facing a villain whose standard MO was to
 
1) Make himself Invisible,
2) Project an Image of himself,
3) Use all his Attack powers bought with Indirect - they come from the Image.
 
So all attacks against him have no effect at all.  You have to figure out how he's doing it, and be able to see and target the invisible guy to defeat him.

I remember facing a villain whose standard MO was to
 
1) Make himself Invisible,
2) Project an Image of himself,
3) Use all his Attack powers bought with Indirect - they come from the Image.
 
So all attacks against him have no effect at all.  You have to figure out how he's doing it, and be able to see and target the invisible guy to defeat him.

I'd treat it as a multiform, with a charge, focus, concentration, and activation time based on his reading immersion speed. The multiform would allow him to have skills based on concept.
 
Don't let him get away with speed reading.  He should need to total immerse himself in the book.  So say an hour minimum to 5 hours probably.  He should also explain in what circumstances would he leave the persona.  Does his power disappear when he sleeps (non-persistent)?  After a day?  Can he immediately go back to the same form without re-reading the book?  Does he forget one character when he reads another character?
 
As the saying goes, "With great power comes great limitations." or something like that.
 
 

I like the idea of magical food. While not every GM would use it, it feels like a really nice element to add depth to a setting. The Kingdom of Grischun (FHC's included Setting) makes mention of Makers (artisan-spellcasters) who Make magical food and drink. It even includes a few examples, such as Sweet Beer​ (Healing END), and Waybread ​(LS: Does Not Eat for 1 Day). Briefly my wife worked on a campaign idea that involved the party investigating an island with magically altered plants whose berries were mutating the local animals.

This is part of the Enchanting section on creating magical items
 
COMPLICATIONS
And finally, magic items often have Complications.  Not ordinary problems, but rather the Hero System method of offsetting points in characters.  Magical items can have Distinctive Appearance: they seem valuable, powerful, and desirable.  That super cool sword you made that has glowing runes?  It looks cool to everyone else, particularly thieves.
 
Some items may have a personality and awareness of their own (particularly those made with very powerful spirits in the “Spirit Binding” spell).  With that can come Psychological Complications. There are other options as well: an item might be cursed with a hunted (things keep showing up to attack the owner), or be particularly vulnerable to a kind of attack.
 
These complications will help offset the total cost of an item, and give the GM something to have fun with in games as well.
 
Complications can be quite significant in point value, often far more than a small item is worth in real points.  As a result, GMs may wish to limit their use to only the greatest items of power or those particularly noteworthy and impressive.  Having a mithril sword will tend to attract thieves and attention, but not any more than any other mithril sword; so the GM may rule that only a particularly impressive and awesome looking one gains Distinctive Appearance.
 
However, since magical items are transitory and can be lost, destroyed, or stolen, GMs may rule that a few complications to offset their experience point cost are reasonable.  Why charge the character permanent points for something that will be lost?  GMs should be very careful about letting characters lower the experience points cost of an item to zero, however.

Adulthood sucks.

This is something I've wanted to do also, but I'm sure I never will.  One suggestion I would make it to have the heroes' efforts in each age contribute to the eventual ultimate victory.  To give an example in basic, generic terms:
 
In the Turakian Age, the heroes stumble upon the evil machinations of the bad guy, and search for any clues as to how to defeat him.
In the Valdorian Age, the heroes find the Book of Prophecy (written by the heroes in the Turakian Age) which reveals the means to defeat the bad guy.
In the Atlantean Age, the heroes gather the necessary materials to construct the MacGuffin (the instructions for which were left by the heroes in the Valdorian Age that will defeat the bad guy.
In Tuala Morn, the heroes have to take the MacGuffin and store it somewhere where it will be unharmed until some point in the distant future when the right heroes will come along to find it and use it.
By the time of Pulp Hero, all the previous knowledge of the Bad Guy and his plan and the MacGuffin has been lost - but the MacGuffin still exists, so the heroes discover it and must protect it from the (unknowing?) servants of the Bad Guy.
In Champions, the scientific means exists to thoroughly investigate the MacGuffin and the whole story around it, and the heroes have to figure out exactly how to use it, and how to insure that it works.
In Alien Wars, aliens make war,threatening to steal or destroy the MacGuffin.  The heroes must make sure their long-term plan succeeds, even if they personally are defeated.
In Terran Empire, the heroes must transport the MacGuffin to the place (in space?) where it will be able to do its thing.
In Galactic Champions, the heroes activate the MacGuffin and finally defeat the Bad Guy.
 
Or something like that.  Season to taste.

This is something I've wanted to do also, but I'm sure I never will.  One suggestion I would make it to have the heroes' efforts in each age contribute to the eventual ultimate victory.  To give an example in basic, generic terms:
 
In the Turakian Age, the heroes stumble upon the evil machinations of the bad guy, and search for any clues as to how to defeat him.
In the Valdorian Age, the heroes find the Book of Prophecy (written by the heroes in the Turakian Age) which reveals the means to defeat the bad guy.
In the Atlantean Age, the heroes gather the necessary materials to construct the MacGuffin (the instructions for which were left by the heroes in the Valdorian Age that will defeat the bad guy.
In Tuala Morn, the heroes have to take the MacGuffin and store it somewhere where it will be unharmed until some point in the distant future when the right heroes will come along to find it and use it.
By the time of Pulp Hero, all the previous knowledge of the Bad Guy and his plan and the MacGuffin has been lost - but the MacGuffin still exists, so the heroes discover it and must protect it from the (unknowing?) servants of the Bad Guy.
In Champions, the scientific means exists to thoroughly investigate the MacGuffin and the whole story around it, and the heroes have to figure out exactly how to use it, and how to insure that it works.
In Alien Wars, aliens make war,threatening to steal or destroy the MacGuffin.  The heroes must make sure their long-term plan succeeds, even if they personally are defeated.
In Terran Empire, the heroes must transport the MacGuffin to the place (in space?) where it will be able to do its thing.
In Galactic Champions, the heroes activate the MacGuffin and finally defeat the Bad Guy.
 
Or something like that.  Season to taste.

Dragonscale
Dragons have a coating of strong, horn-like scales that is very durable and light.  Not made from bone, Dragonscales are hard without being brittle.  Dragonscale has a base PD of 9 and ED of 12.  Working Dragonscale takes a -5 penalty.
 
Armor made from this material has 50% resistant ED damage reduction of the elemental type the Dragon is (or the DEF x 3 in Power Defense).  Dragonscale enchants easily, matching 1/5 BOD of the material made in real points of magic.
 
Weapons can be made from Dragonscale such as maces or axes, or even crude swords.  Such weapons have triple defense against the type of elemental attack the Dragon was of originally (or DEF x3 in Power Defense) and enchant easily, matching* 1 point per 4 weapon’s Body.
 
 
*MATCHING POINTS: When an enchanted material has “Matching points” this means that it has free character points inherent in the material that someone enchanting the item it is made from can tap into.  For every point the enchanter spends for a permanent magic on the item, the enchanted material will “match” that with a free point up to its maximum total.  Thus, a sword made from Dragonbone will grant up to 1/3rd of its total Body in real points, each point added once the enchanter has spent one point.

Vaultwood:
These 4+ meter fat trees never grow to great heights, reaching only a ten meters at most.  However, they are known by some for a useful, if strange property.  The trunk of the tree near the ground usually grows a fairly large cavity, about a meter tall and half a meter wide.  This cavity can be accessed by one side of the tree, and when cut open can be used to store items.
The bark regrows over this cut fairly rapidly, and within 2 weeks there is no sign the tree was ever cut away, sealing the materials in side dry and cool away from prying eyes.  Some forest dwelling peoples will use Vaultwood trees for secure storage, remembering the location for picking up items later.
Vaultwood are found in temperate forested areas and swamps.

Work is ongoing with this project, and I plan on posting some things here to help give a glimpse into what the project is.
 
Essentially, the Field Guide is a book of the other stuff in the world besides monsters and treasures and player characters.  It is about the animals, plants, minerals and such that player characters can interact with to their advantage or detriment.  This includes poisons, trades such as blacksmithing and leatherworking, herbs of fantastic enchanted quality, and much more.
 
For example, in the world of Jolrhos you will find this:
 
Pepper Moss This dappled green and white hanging moss is uncommon on trees.  It dangles like Spanish moss, especially in areas away from water sources.  Dust-like material grows on the moss containing spores, and a strong wind or being physically jostled can cause the dust to cascade around the moss.   Most creatures are not particularly bothered by Pepper Moss, but humans, ratmen, wolfen, and zhai (not elves or dwarves) react to the dust as if it is very finely concentrated pepper.  The moss causes stinging in the eyes and strong repeated sneezing.  This acts as a flash attack of d6 worth of d6 (1-6d6) in the target for each plant’s worth of dust.  Further, at the beginning of each phase while blinded, before moving,  the target must make a Constitution Roll at -1 for each additional segment of blindness they are suffering from (so if a character has 3 segments of blindness, they must make CON roll at -3).  Failing this CON roll means they are stunned and must recover as normal that phase, taking no other action.   These effects are only on creatures that are affected by the pepper effect.  Others only cough slightly in annoyance.  All normal animals and most monsters are affected, but nothing such as dragons, demons, or undead is bothered by Pepper Moss.  Naturally any creature that does not breathe is unaffected as well. Pepper Moss is found in forests, swamps, and jungles, in temperate to tropical regions.

How is this envisioned to work, exactly?  For example:
 
 - how many books can he use at the same time?
 - how many powers from each book he is using can be used at the same time?
 - how many books can he carry around at any given time?
 - how many books does he have in total?
 
The best mechanic will depend on exactly how the powers work.

This is something I've wanted to do also, but I'm sure I never will.  One suggestion I would make it to have the heroes' efforts in each age contribute to the eventual ultimate victory.  To give an example in basic, generic terms:
 
In the Turakian Age, the heroes stumble upon the evil machinations of the bad guy, and search for any clues as to how to defeat him.
In the Valdorian Age, the heroes find the Book of Prophecy (written by the heroes in the Turakian Age) which reveals the means to defeat the bad guy.
In the Atlantean Age, the heroes gather the necessary materials to construct the MacGuffin (the instructions for which were left by the heroes in the Valdorian Age that will defeat the bad guy.
In Tuala Morn, the heroes have to take the MacGuffin and store it somewhere where it will be unharmed until some point in the distant future when the right heroes will come along to find it and use it.
By the time of Pulp Hero, all the previous knowledge of the Bad Guy and his plan and the MacGuffin has been lost - but the MacGuffin still exists, so the heroes discover it and must protect it from the (unknowing?) servants of the Bad Guy.
In Champions, the scientific means exists to thoroughly investigate the MacGuffin and the whole story around it, and the heroes have to figure out exactly how to use it, and how to insure that it works.
In Alien Wars, aliens make war,threatening to steal or destroy the MacGuffin.  The heroes must make sure their long-term plan succeeds, even if they personally are defeated.
In Terran Empire, the heroes must transport the MacGuffin to the place (in space?) where it will be able to do its thing.
In Galactic Champions, the heroes activate the MacGuffin and finally defeat the Bad Guy.
 
Or something like that.  Season to taste.

I don't really like that idea, MA is already too good at the current minimum investment level and you'd be opening the door to even lower investments. 
If you don't force PCs to keep improving their MA once they start the buy-in then you've told the munchkin that he can get +2 OCV with Strike for 2 points. 
But if you do force PCs to keep improving their MA you can get people who are in "XP debt" and thus can't take entirely sensible in-character actions like learning German before the trip to Germany because they're too busy learning Kung Fu. 
 
I'd suggest instead having PCs buy the first half-dozen points as 2 or 3 point CSLs, then once they dunk the 10th XP into it let them swap the whole kit for MA. 
 
Right now a MADC is something like 5 STR, 0 END (+1/2), Only for Martial Maneuvers (-1).  That's significantly more flexible than a HTHA DC which only gets -1/2 and can't be applied to STR things. 
I'd be very cautious lowering the price of a MADC because it's already a stupidly good deal, and I'd be equally cautious about adding complexity bloat. 

So I've got plans that my friend calls 'ambitious' and they probably are. Think I might be going too far?
 
A little background: I recently changed jobs and moved to an entirely new city. I do have friends here, and several game. We are going to be doing a Gloomhaven game on Fridays. But this is about HERO, because they want me to run a game.
 
Players will be small. No more than 3-4, not including myself. I have a ton of game systems available, but I hit upon an idea I've always wanted to try but never got around to it.
 
So the concept: In 5th Edition HERO, the various setting books(Turakian Age, Atlantean Age, Alien Wars, etc) all covered a different era in human history. My idea is to play through them all in short(ish) arcs, with the players making new characters of the same bloodline as their old ones, though maybe technically just inheriting their spirit or something. Point is, it's a generational epic to tie all the games together, starting with an ancient nemesis being thwarted in the Turakian Age and going to its eventual defeat in the Galactic Champions era.
 
Currently the plans are to include:
 
Turakian Age
Valdorian Age
Atlantean Age
Tuala Morn(maybe?)
Pulp Hero
Champions
Alien Wars
Terran Empire
Galactic Champions
 
So questions: Any ideas for glue? Any that I should or shouldn't include(for example, should Post Apocalyptic Hero be a thing?) Is this too ambitious?  And finally, this is the 5th Edition stuff, should I try to convert it to 6th, or is that going to be an even bigger project? I didn't have a problem with 5e, but I do tend to prefer 6th.

One of the things I like about the idea of starting with stripped-down, lower-priced martial arts maneuvers is that buying them can provide a feeling of learning and improvement, especially in lower-pointed campaigns.
 
Instead of saving up and buying ten points of maneuvers all at once, why not do it slowly, paying in a point or two at a time?
 
Start with Martial Strike, paying a point to get either the first +1d6 in damage or +1 DCV HTH. Then slowly add more points to it and other maneuvers as you gain experience.

Steve 
 
As a devout Catholic I'd have no problem with the inclusion of Angels and Devils in the book.  There already is in theatre, film and TV a great number of fantasy shows dedicated to this topic such as Lucifer (TV show), Supernatural (TV Show), Midnight (TV show), The Fallen (movie) Ghost (movie), various works of Esther Friesner (books) and those are just the ones I can come up with off the top of my head in five seconds.  There are latterly 100's more.  Somehow Tinseltown, the Networks, Netflix and the publishing houses manage to make a pretty good living selling people stories on just this subject.  There are even some stories that are based on Jewish mythology and not Christian out there.  I don't see why people who make their own story in a gaming system have to be somehow treated differently other than Gaming companies don't have as much money for lawyers as Networks do I guess.  I'd actually love to see rules and discussion on this genre whether it is in the mythology book or not.
 
I have watched and read a lot of these stories and it seems that the good ones follow a certain theme.
 
1) God is absentee from the story line.
 
Why) First off being omnipotent and omniscient there would be no conflict.  God can you fix this, finger snap, Yes I can!  Second and more important having God say stuff is very close to giving lectures on what God thinks which could influence the viewer and or offend if they believe God would do something else.  So God is this mystery being no one sees in the story who leaves Easter eggs for the character to find and figure out on their own as the only communication form Him or Her depending on how Woke you are these days.
 
2) Religion, faction or creed are usually never mentioned or shown except in the case of films like the exorcist where the Catholics are the only religion that still has people that do that thing.  To the extent it is, there is never attempts in the story at proselytizing.

.
Why) Kind of obvious.  The more elusive what religion or religious system is in play the more it will tend to include anyone who is a believer even non Christians.
 
3)  The "Angels" or their other religious counterparts such as Buddhist Bodhisattva are always troubled and don't quite know what it is they should do and many times are the de facto Villains of the story. 
 
Why) It helps if those on the side of Good have to struggle to know what is right.  IF the Angels all know the right solution to every conflict they can just tell the mortals what to do and be done with it and that does not make for a good story.
 
4)  There is usually always one demon that attempts to reform himself or herself even if it is too late.
 
Why) It makes for better story if the not all the bad guys are thoroughly evil.  This creates complex problems the good guys have to solve.
 
5)  The macguffin in plots related to sin are always things not in dispute such as murder and do not touch on political topics such as the abortion debate for instance.  No attempt is made to speak on these subjects one way or another.  Sin is never something shown in a way that is judgmental of religious beliefs.
 
Why)  Obvious I think but important to remember because you have to make sure others cannot view things in that regard.  Things judged as Sin have to be things that people universally see as wrong.  For instance manbuns. 
 
I think that any book on this subject would probably have to have those rules in mind and directions on how to implement them in order to avoid people seeing it as  trying to offend.  To those that will be offended because D&D is evil well, they aren't your target audience anyways.
 
Still I understand your reluctance.
Cheers
Indy
 

I'm rather assuming that Mythic Hero is going to be a book of Gods: a Mythic Hero book would have to contain something useful to use in my games, or a game I might create or play in.
 
I remember the old Deities and Demigods book in DnD and how, despite the fact that I bought it, I never really found a use for it: the characters portrayed were too powerful for even the mightiest of heroes and took on an almost arbitrary aspect because there were no rules for creating them - you could make up what you wanted to.
 
So I suppose the first thing a book of this sort would have to answer is 'what is a God?', then 'what is the place of a God in my game?'
 
Almost by definition a God is something that is beyond the bounds of the world we live in.  A lot of comic book characters are described as 'godlike' in their power, but are they?  Gods in story and legend could do whatever was needed for the story or legend, and were limited in whatever ways were needed. 
 
I would not be particularly keen on a villain/NPC book detailing the stats of Gods: at the sort of power levels we are talking about, Hero starts to break down unless you have very strict build guidelines: a 1000 point character can have a 100d6 Blast and still have 500 points to spend on other stuff.  Another 1000 point character could not usefully defend against that sort of attack without being very fortunate in the way they built the character.  In fact, at that level some powers become almost de rigeur: damage reduction being a case in point.
 
In addition the sheer variety of attacks becomes impossible to usefully defend against: a 50d6 NND will take down almost anything that is not specifically shielded against it.
 
The above examples also shows how unplayable the characters would be: if you are rolling dozens of dice for damage, you will be spending most of your time just adding up.
 
Gods should have weaknesses: not ones that allow them to be beaten in combat, because that almost never happens, but ones that allow them to be outsmarted, misdirected or tricked.  If a mortal beats a God, it is almost always because they are smarter, or luckier in some way, than the God they beat or that they had the help and guidance of another God.  You do not usually hear tales of mortals besting Gods in direct combat, not unless the God has deliberately limited itself in some way, or been limited.
 
Gods should affect the world in various ways: some as mere superstitious talismans, others as active participants in fate, but always as a plot device rather than an active antagonist.  You might defeat Hades by foiling his followers' machinations, but you are unlikely to simply punch his lights out...
 
...having said which, that actually happened in a game I ran where the characters were 250 point superheroes - but I had not statted up Hades and calculated his stun and KB, it happened because Hades was passing through a portal to the mortal world and the character, Fortress, struck at exactly the right time and, well, it made sense for the game.  I had not planned it, but I certainly took advantage of it.
 
That, I suppose is the point: even if we assume that most Gods are basically high powered superheroes, who plays games at that level?  The effect they have on the world should be as shadow on a screen.
 
If I had to say what I would want from Mythic Hero it would be rules for building a game that could stand the pressure of Gods as active participants in the affairs of the game world.
 
On a personal note, I am sorry to hear of Steve's health problems: nothing too serious, I hope.
 

I usually prefer to have luck (and unluck) affect something other than actual rolls.  Dice rolls are luck already.  Luck makes something entirely different happen, not just a better or worse roll of something that you're doing.
 
Lucky (Very Lucky):
The guy chasing you trips or stumbles.  (He trips and sprains his ankle.)
The guy chasing you in a vehicle is cut off by a truck coming in from a side street.  (The truck hits his vehicle.)
You fall in water instead of on concrete.  (You land on a stack of mattresses.)
Normal in the crowd distracts the enemy you're fighting.  (Normal throws something, throwing off the enemy's aim of his BFG.)
 
Unlucky: Well, pretty much the same as the above, except flipped.
 
And yes, combat re-rolls are also a legitimate use of Luck/Unluck.  But there should be a narrative reason for it.
 
"I was fighting Professor Evil, and I rolled a 16, but then my Luck kicked in and I re-rolled a 4!"
 
vs.
 
"I was fighting Professor Evil, and my shot would have missed, but he was distracted by a bug flying around his face.  So he swatted at it, rather than keeping he eye on me and avoiding my blaster!"
 
It suddenly occurs to me that it might be useful to have a handy table of lucky/unlucky things that might happen to justify rerolls and their results.  Each GM can write one up in advance based on the genre and campaign circumstances.  Then they can easily refer to it and pick an appropriate one, rather than having to make them up on the fly, risking always coming up with the same thing.
 

It was generally not allowed to put Skills (including Skill Levels) in a Multipower.  Is this something that changed in 6e?
 
Skill Levels - especially those above 2 points, are their own sort of "multipower".  They already have their flexibility built in.
 
That's a way to think about it - Martial Arts are sort of like a power framework unto themselves.

Let's see your numbers.
 
For a few HtH skill levels and some extra dice of HtH damage, you can indeed have a lot of martial maneuvers.  But you don't get:
 
NND (Nerve Strike)
HKA
Escape
Reversal
Takedown/Trip/Throw (Target falls)
Probably some others I've forgotten
 
And BTW, nobody buys ten MA maneuvers.  They buy four or five, maybe six or seven at the most.  Beyond that you definitely get diminishing returns.  Then they might buy levels with them, and extra DCs - for some very good returns.  

Practically, if his "Huge Form" fits within the campaign limits, and he simply drops points off to move to the other two forms, I see no issue with MultiForm specifically.  This issue highlights the problem with hard AP limits.  For Growth or Multiform, I would be more inclined to restrict the component parts - i.e.STR is capped, defenses are capped, etc.  If a Brick with the same stats, at normal size, would be OK, then the Huge Dinosaur should also be OK.

This seems like a clear case for Multiform -- but it sounds like you're trying to avoid it.
 
There's another option, which is to start at roughly human-sized … and use Shrinking to get to key-chain sized … and use Growth to get to Huge.  Make the Shrinking @0END … and make the Growth cost END (for the very same balance reasons you mentioned) … and provide enough END to run it (END is cheap!).

You seem of the opinion that using Figured Characteristics is "simple" and not using them is "complex." I note that this is not a universal opinion.
 
Lucius Alexander
 
I am of the opinion that every tagline of mine should include at least one palindromedary. This is probably not a universal opinion but I happen not to care.

Well if you think that I am a troll rather than a long standing supporter for the game and those who play it, and that I am trolling rather than asking people who don't like 6e to itemize the problems they have with the ruleset that cause them to express a general dislike for it at one end of the spectrum up to using terms like "detest" at that other end of the spectrum, then you misunderstand me.

I'm not attempting to troll you (or anyone else) Christopher. I've been away from these board for a while, and coming back to it I notice a trend with the posters currently active where a noticeable subgroup seem to hold 6e in poor regard. As the opening post stipulates, I want to start a friendly forum for reasonable discussion for people to put forth their talking points for why some other version of the rules is a better version of the rules.
 
You are of course free to not participate in the discussion if you don't want to, but popping in to participate by accusing me of trolling seems counterproductive on the one hand or perhaps some might say a bit trollish in and of itself on the other. Name calling has a tendency to propagate, I suppose. But if you have an opinion about why 6e is not the best mechanical version of the rules, I would like to hear it if you would take the time to type it out.