dsatow

I disagree.  That would make it more expensive than just having the extra damage all the time.

I haven't found not having the doubling issue a problem in the supers genre or to say, it isn't any more troubling than before with the doubling.
 
As far as weapon breakage goes, I don't remember if it was a house rule or if it was in the pre-5th edition fantasy hero, but there was a rule about a weapon having def = 2 * DC or 3 * DC.  So a sword doing 2d6K would have either 12 def or 18 def.  If the sword did more than the def of the weapon, it would take body damage.

I wouldn't accept that as a trigger since the trigger needs a commonly used sense available to the player to trigger (6e1p350).  in other words, the player doesn't know if he will take damage or not unless he has precognition.  A better solution would be imminent threat or attack. If he's about to get hit by something (whether the attack succeeds to hit him or doesn't) he would teleport.  Thus, they would teleport at first sign of being attacked, so in that build, not just AoE but surprise attacks and attacks he couldn't sense coming to him (such as being flashed and then attacked) would also affect him.

LOL, we should continue the light argument here but force everyone to use recipe terms.  
 
 

....I know it is kind of off-topic for the forum but I thought it was apposite given the nature of a few recent threads...
 
 
 

For extended tests, I will usually GM the roll to adding extra time.  For instance, if someone is a physics professor with a 13- science roll: Physics happens to roll a 16.  I generally won't let him fail if as a physics professor he should know the answer.  Instead, I tell the character that will need to think about it for a minute before getting the answer.  This also works well with social skills.  You fail with a charm roll by 5, you don't hit it off immediately.  Instead you need to work on charming the target.  If the character has enough time, they will still charm the target but the question is will they have enough time to successfully charm them or will they have to rudely run off in the middle of an awkward spot in the conversation to deal with a crisis.
 
The reason I like this solution:
1) The major mechanics aren't changed and it uses an existing mechanic (the time chart) in a new way.
2) Character concepts that say they are "X" aren't dis-satisfyingly ruined due to a bad die roll.  IE: Your sneaky ninja is still sneaky, they just have to move slower and more cautiously.
 
These reasons are why I abandoned the skill as a normal attack mechanic back then rather than trying to kludge more fixes.  The more fixes it required, the more major changes to the system and more learning it would require to keep the game portable to beyond just my own gaming group.  Also, usually, the time aspect was enough to be disappointing without being discouraging on a roll.
 
 

1st through 3rd edition -- didn't have Change Environment.  Light Illusions (from the Champions II supplement) and Images (the Fantasy Hero version of Light Illusions) explicitly could create light. 
 
4th edition -- Change Environment could explicitly create light.  Images (the successor Power to Light Illusions) doesn't mention light. 
 
5th & 6th edition -- Change Environment is explicitly prohibited from creating light.  Images explicitly can create light.  
 
I don't believe in the inherent superiority of any one edition over any other, and even if I did, the "correct" mechanic for creating light would not be one of my criteria for deciding.  
 
Images works, even though it's expensive.  Change Environment works, if your edition and/or GM allows it.  Free as part of another light-based power is fine.  A custom power is fine, if your GM allows it.
 
Agree to disagree?  

Here's my suggestion:
 
Build it with Absorption into energy blast non-persistent, attack action to maintain (probably a -1 to -2 limitation), succor (-1) but do not add the advantage absorption as a defense.  The energy blast should be outside of any multipower and should probably have an extra time limitation extra phase.  Add in a couple of levels only with the energy blast.
 
Note, this will not work exactly like the bide in the Pokemon games, as those games use different mechanics, but it should simulate the feel of the Bide maneuver.  You persevere under a couple of attacks then let loose with a bigger power.
 
Pikachu is biding.  Since he is biding, it ends his phase.  While he can allocate levels to not get hit, he can't dodge or block.
Geodude attacks with an 8d6 attack.  Pikachu is hit and absorbs 8 body.
Pikachu continues to bide ending his next phase.
Geodude attacks again with an 8d6 attack.  Pikachu absorbs another 8 body.
Pikachu is pikapissed and decides to attack.  Pikachu fires off his normal 8d6 blast in his multipower of attacks and the 1d6 outside of the multipower.  This normally would only do 9d6, but from the bide he gains another 3d6.  The lightning bolt strikes for 12d6 damage and because he stops biding, the points gained from biding fade at the end of the phase.
 
 

For extended tests, I will usually GM the roll to adding extra time.  For instance, if someone is a physics professor with a 13- science roll: Physics happens to roll a 16.  I generally won't let him fail if as a physics professor he should know the answer.  Instead, I tell the character that will need to think about it for a minute before getting the answer.  This also works well with social skills.  You fail with a charm roll by 5, you don't hit it off immediately.  Instead you need to work on charming the target.  If the character has enough time, they will still charm the target but the question is will they have enough time to successfully charm them or will they have to rudely run off in the middle of an awkward spot in the conversation to deal with a crisis.
 
The reason I like this solution:
1) The major mechanics aren't changed and it uses an existing mechanic (the time chart) in a new way.
2) Character concepts that say they are "X" aren't dis-satisfyingly ruined due to a bad die roll.  IE: Your sneaky ninja is still sneaky, they just have to move slower and more cautiously.
 
These reasons are why I abandoned the skill as a normal attack mechanic back then rather than trying to kludge more fixes.  The more fixes it required, the more major changes to the system and more learning it would require to keep the game portable to beyond just my own gaming group.  Also, usually, the time aspect was enough to be disappointing without being discouraging on a roll.
 
 

For extended tests, I will usually GM the roll to adding extra time.  For instance, if someone is a physics professor with a 13- science roll: Physics happens to roll a 16.  I generally won't let him fail if as a physics professor he should know the answer.  Instead, I tell the character that will need to think about it for a minute before getting the answer.  This also works well with social skills.  You fail with a charm roll by 5, you don't hit it off immediately.  Instead you need to work on charming the target.  If the character has enough time, they will still charm the target but the question is will they have enough time to successfully charm them or will they have to rudely run off in the middle of an awkward spot in the conversation to deal with a crisis.
 
The reason I like this solution:
1) The major mechanics aren't changed and it uses an existing mechanic (the time chart) in a new way.
2) Character concepts that say they are "X" aren't dis-satisfyingly ruined due to a bad die roll.  IE: Your sneaky ninja is still sneaky, they just have to move slower and more cautiously.
 
These reasons are why I abandoned the skill as a normal attack mechanic back then rather than trying to kludge more fixes.  The more fixes it required, the more major changes to the system and more learning it would require to keep the game portable to beyond just my own gaming group.  Also, usually, the time aspect was enough to be disappointing without being discouraging on a roll.
 
 

Personally on the whole issue of the ability to produce light in a supers game (or have a cell phone, or etc.)
 
1) You can purchase a $2 pen light from the store.  It will not cost you points.  It will not have def or body as it's a story prop.  When the villain shows up, lights flicker and bulbs burn out or the first time you get knocked back, the thing breaks.  If you want something more dependable, pay points for it.
2) I understand the concept of change environment and gut instinct tells me its the way to do it.  After all, in D&D you get darkness penalties removed the farther out from the light source.  But I've come to understand why they use light as an image.  Using change environment means the  effect is only applicable within the area.  You can't really get the bonuses from the change environment outside the radius of the change environment effect.  With images, you can still see the image within the effect (i.e. the image doesn't disappear if you go outside the effect.  You still see it clearly with a +4 to see it.  The image is the bright spot in the center.  

Dazzler = Feb 1980
Xanadu = Aug 1980
Bedazzler = 1970s!  <--  Winner!

Dazzler = Feb 1980
Xanadu = Aug 1980
Bedazzler = 1970s!  <--  Winner!

Spotlight - Whenever the character make a soliloquy or dramatic speech, the area they are standing in gets just a little brighter than everyone else's.  If no one is listening to the speech or they  failed to even get the target's attention in a presence attack, the sound of crickets can be heard as well.

You know what I like about Chris's 1d6 Blast suggestion? 
 
It reminds me that we give away light for free. 
 
"what three senses (two, for 6e players) can detect your EB?" 
 
Well, it's a bolt of lighting, so I was thinking a brilliant arc of electricity, an electric 'sizzle' noise, and the smell of burnt ozone. "
 
Got it; it appeals to four senses. 
 
No; that's three. 
 
Does it hurt when you get hit with it? 
 
Of course it does!  It's lightning! 
 
Touch is a sense. 
 
Fine.  So I'll drop-
 
No; you don't have to drop one.  You can have all you want.  But if you drop touch, you're wasting a lot of points. 
 
You're doing this on purpose, aren't you? 
 
"_No, he's just smug about pointless crap.  You'll get used to it-_" 
 
Knock it off, Mark!   Anyway, Loren, tell me about your other powers... 
I
(f I wasn't jonesing so hard for a game....) 
 
Later:  
 
Yes; you recognize the voice talking into the radio.  That shadowy figure in the darkness is definitely him. 
 
I take my time; he doesn't know I'm here.  I really line up the shot, making sure I stay focused squarely on him. 
 
Roll to hit. 
 
SWEET!  Got a seven! 
 
The warehouse flashes for the briefest instant into crisp, clear focus, instantly yet briefly filled with a flicker of brilliant light as your lightning strike sizzles through the space between you,- for the briefest instant, you can see he is not alone! Then you mighty zigguraut of untamed electrons strikes Doctor Nair Duwell perfectly in the chest!  The scent of burnt ozone reaches you just about the same time his screams of rage ring in your ears-
 
Wait:  what did you say? 
 
The scent of burnt ozo-
 
No; before that
 
That shadowy figure is definitely him? 
 
You said " The warehouse flashes for the briefest instant into crisp, clear focus, instantly yet briefly filled with a flicker of brilliant light." 
 
Yes...?
 
Take it back. 
 
Excuse me? 
 
Take it back. 
 
.. Uuuuuhhhh..... _whyyyy_? 
 
Because it can't.  I don't have Images. 
 
What the hell are-
 
You said that I have to buy images to make light! 
 
Yeah, sure, but that's to have light that actually, you know, lasts more than two eyeblinks! 
 
What about Terri?  You said that "the glow of her forcefield was sufficient enough to let her sneak through here without banging into stuff.  Why? 
 
It glows!  When she built her character, she specifically said" soft yellow glow from the forcefield!"  Glow means light! 
 
She doesn't have images, either! 
 
Dude, it just makes sense that if it glows she would be able to see what she is stepping on or into, right? 
 
I want a flashlight 
 
You sure?  That's like thirty-two pointa.  Have you banked 32 points? 
 
Fine.  Can I kind of cycle my lightning, like arc it between my fingers or something?  
 
Sure!  Presence Attack? 
 
No,  I want to see if I can generate enough light this way to read the blotter on this desk; I'm hoping it might name the buyer. 
 
Oh sure, that could work!  Make a Power Skill roll. 
 
Hi-yeah!  Nat 3, Baby! 
 
You are able to modulate your electrical powers so cleanly and perfectly, what with that 3, that it's almost like to had a hand-held arc light.  You have manged to chase almost all the shadows back to the edges of the room or into the shadows under the desk or across the filing cabinets... 
 
Yeah.  So how much was that flashlight? 
 
Thirty-two points.  Want to save up for it? 
 
Nah...   I think I'm good.... 
 
You know what I like about Phil's astute observation that normal sight should cost the same as blindness? 
 
The reminder that for twenty-five points, I shoukd be able to see from where I stand to the horizon with no penalties other than range. 
 
Ever wonder what that area was?  You science guys probably already know that it's about 3.1 miles to the horizon at sea level.  That means in sweeping from the horizon dead ahead to the horizon over your left shoulder, you have taken in, in a glance, 9.61 square miles. 
 
Figuring your peripheral vision to stop just a tiny bit before your shoulders, let's say you can stand staring forward and potentially perceive 4/3 of that (2/3 of the left and right fields.  A quick Google suggests your periphery is a bit more than what I am suggesting, but I'm trying to keep this simple. I am also not going to suggest getting in an airplane thousands of feet above the Earth and noticing that you can _still_ see to the horizon). 
 
4/3 of 9.61 is 12.8133333 etc. Square miles. 
 
This gives us the handy round figure of thirty-three million, one-hundred eighty-six thousand, three-hundred and eighty point nine-eight-two-eight. 
 
You know, I'm feeling like we should round in the character's favor here. Let's just call it an even 33,186,390 square meters. 
 
So we divide that by the twenty-five points we "sort-of-paid for not being blind? - - and we see that a single point spent on light should allow us to illuminate one-and-one-third _million_ square meters. 
 
It's no _wonder_ we give that crap away for free!   We'll have to start burning off the surplus if we expect it to ever be worth anything at all! 
 
Which takes me back to Chris's other suggestion:  if you really want to charge for it, charge somewhere between 1 and 5 pts.  Personally, if you spent a _whole point_ for the ability to light up a 10m X 10m room, you got _screwed_.... 
 
 

I'm an incorrigible punster, so don't incorrige me.

in 5e (or was it 4e) UMA designing new styles/maneuvers:
 
Guy made his own martial maneuver:  Something like a block +2 OCV +3 DCV, +4d6+v/5 damage, full move, grab 4 limbs +20 str, target thrown to the ground.  All for only 27 points.
 

First off I am going to apologize for the length of this post and the multiple responses.  I should break it up, but I think they all flow together.
 
My apologies.  This came from an argument from Phil (Saturday at 12:02 AM) and Gnome(Friday at 08:14 PM) on page 3.  Both were arguing for the adjustment power based penalties to be increased and I incorrectly assumed you to agree with the larger penalty.  I was wrong.
 
Which is a GM decision and not a rule of the game.  IE: a House rule.  This was my argument which got down voted.
 
Actually, not really, since the argument for using adjustment powers is that the absence of light(the actor) which generates the penalties to be drained, then unless there is light, the absence of light generates the penalties again.
 
I'll explain why I am reiterating something people have already stated in a minute.
 
1) Unless I directly quote you, it's mostly not directed to you or any single person.  It's more of an annoying general discussion.
2) Every so often a good gem of an idea gets floated out there.  Most of the people I game with are pretty smart.  Smart enough to try to break/find fault with a hastily conceived house rule to their benefit.  If I argue the idea here, there are a dozen other smart GMs who can come up with an answer beyond just the old "I say so".  If not, I try to think up a way to counter the flaw if the flaw is not too major.  Usually, though the flaw is too obnoxious to overcome simply and cleanly.
3) I will sometimes repeat answered items because of several reasons.
   a) The same arguments that spawned the problem get mentioned again or are ignored and not solved.
   b) Just to remind people by summarizing the situation.
   c) Some of the posts are so god damn long it feels like read a thesis.  I'll forget some of the items being argued.  I'm no spring chicken and 35 years of HERO gaming is bound to take a toll.
   d) Lately, the world seems to be if you don't constantly bring up the problems, people think you agree with them and their solutions, even if the solution isn't something you agree with.  So, I try to be cordial and reiterate my position.

in 5e (or was it 4e) UMA designing new styles/maneuvers:
 
Guy made his own martial maneuver:  Something like a block +2 OCV +3 DCV, +4d6+v/5 damage, full move, grab 4 limbs +20 str, target thrown to the ground.  All for only 27 points.
 

Ouch.  Twice.
 

I use puns Piers Anthony wouldn't touch.

You know.  After all the discussion I am just about convinced of the use of images.  The images provide a pool of light.  I think that the image could be bought restrainable - if you get in the way of the beam of light you prevent it reaching the area intended.  What I also think is necessary is that all the concern folk have about fading edges and ruined night vision and snipers should be folded into the SFX of the power.  The SFX are separate from the game effect. 
 
So.  Images get you the defined effect in a defined area.  Everything else is a GM judgement call based on the impact of the SFX.  You reckon that the pool of light gives a reduced effect close to that pool?  Fine, small improvement to PER rolls.  A sniper several hundred feet away and out of the defined area of effect?  well the SFX of pool of light make anyone within the effect fully visible to people a distance away, just like a real lantern would.
 
I am actually totally sold on images for the very first time.  Would just like everyone to know that an argument on the internet has actually changed an opinion!!!
 

Doc

Spotlight - Whenever the character make a soliloquy or dramatic speech, the area they are standing in gets just a little brighter than everyone else's.  If no one is listening to the speech or they  failed to even get the target's attention in a presence attack, the sound of crickets can be heard as well.

Their inclusion may be a bit Hit or Myth.

Their inclusion may be a bit Hit or Myth.