Acroyear

No you wouldn't. I suck as a GM Which is why I've been working on a pet-campaign. I figure if it's all mine and I like it, I might improve. I see, you put your restrictions on during play. We put the restrictions on in the construction... saves time, imo. We also have a huge group (11 people) so you might not be running into the same issues we do if you have a smaller one (most groups seem to be half the size or less). The guy who usually runs for us is prety damn good, in my opinion, though. Kept the team going since, hell, '82?

I'd kiss you. But I think you're to blame for goofy-ing up Deathstroke, so we'll just call it even. If not, I'll have to blame it on being Canadian or something, because I really don't want to kiss you. and this after I asked "who's flaming?"

Who was flaming?? (aside from all the fire guys we used as examples).

Magic can't be used to gate people from other worlds? Why not? That's the point. The spacemen with rayguns aren't magic, themselves, but with "magic powers" you could certainly summon them. If a magician summons a lion to fight someone... or a snake or whatever (both much more commonly accepted than spacemen, I would assume) neither of the animals, themselves, are magical. The lion doesn't attack with "magic" claws and the snake doesn't attack with "magic" snake venom. It's just claws and snake venom. Similarly, spacemen with rayguns are hitting you with lasers or whatever, not eldritch bolts.

Let's go back to making Hermit feel inadequate.... Be happy, you're a 150 point follower... not too shabby! I'll even let you drive the Acromobile.

I am perfectly cool with that.

If ECs were used as they are supposed to (imo) you don't need the inter-dependent portion of them to prevent abuse. Unlike Monolith's example above, I don't believe "fire" can heal nor provide extra-dimensional movement (among other things). While it might be suitable for a magical fire being, it is certainly not due to the fire aspects of the character. And, again, even if one were to allow such things... they are stuck with a fire effect. Magic can be anything fire, cold, sonics, gremlin helpers, light, darkness, steel, plagues, magnetics, gravity, summoned spacement with rayguns, etc, etc. The problem is, people allow these super vague things to count as SFX and then complain "oh, this is unbalanced." Well, no kidding. If you allow that sort of thing, then, yeah, you need the inter-dependent nature of 5th ECs.

Not necessarily (and there is also a common "drain mutant powers" which is equally silly. It's like draining "human" powers which affects all the stats, running & swimming. Mutations are genetic and wildly different). I agree there's some crossover in terms of adjustment powers, I don't dispute that, at all. But a SFX creates a set of rules all by itself in how the environment interacts with it. Like electricity or ice. Magic, in and of itself, does not have these more common interactions because, in all our geekish glory, what affects magic is magic (and maybe a few rare elements). In terms of adjustment powers like that, the power source is considered as common as a SFX in an overall, well rounded, supers world. The number of magicians is roughly equal to the number of fire guys (a great generalization) so things that impact them might be considered on more even ground. Magic, too (and mutant, and alien) have absolutely no restrictions on them in terms of power sets. Someone who is a Fire Guy has a limited set of abilities. You can get pretty creative and invent neat stuff (a fire based STN, CON, REC drain, for example... using heat to dehydrate someone) but, ultimately, it's limited by the whole heat/fire SFX. Magic, on the other hand, isn't limited in any way. Someone with a magic pool, for example, can just as easily have a mundane machinegun that isn't magical, at all, in operation. "I cast a spell and summon a machinegun." The attack, itself, isn't magical...it's just bullets. Defenses only vs magic wouldn't work (this is why I say it doesn't count as a "limited set of effect" in terms of VPPs). The idea behind an EC, and although I don't have the book handy, I'm sure it says as much, is intended to reward a concept with a SFX set. You can only fit in powers that meet that SFX. Allowing a power source (like magic) as an SFX creates an EC (or any framework, like a VPP) allows construction of the framework without any sort of limitation to which powers can be selected. In your "Magic Elemental" discussion above... what powers are excluded? You can have literally anything with something like that. Meanwhile, a Fire Elemental isn't going to be busting out with a sonic disruption blast or a shower of cold iron as part of his power set. This is not even ground (like how the adjustment powers work). Now in an all mutant or all magic campaign, I would think the adjustment powers bought vague are out of whack, too.

Ah, here we go. This might sum up my opinion on "vague" things like magic or alien as sources of power rather than the SFX. Magic is not a special effect, it is a source of power. If you have a magic attack, you must define the special effect - for one, so that your target knows which defense to apply. While vague, "only vs magic (any special effect)" for a defense is not worth more or less of a limitation, on average, as something like "only vs fire (any power source)" because magic, in general, is probably just as common as fire. Now "only vs magic fire" would be worth more. Superman, for example, does not have "alien vision" he has "heat vision." The source of his power is his alien heritage, the SFX of the power is "heat." I'll leave it at that. Everyone will form their own opinion.

Same old "broken" response, as well. I think we've established that you do a whole lot of things differently, Monnie. I find the EC more abusive because it's against the spirit & the word of the rules and also unfair to other EC users at once. Why should Fire Guy not be allowed to buy his non-fire powers inside his "Fire" EC when Mutant Boy can buy anything he wants? Why not everyone just take "EC: Superhero" and save some points? Who cares about the purpose of an EC? Which is not, btw, the create a set of powers that can be drained at once... (you'll also note that many if not most of the comments concerning that change since 5th's release have been "we're ignoring that.") There's no restriction on "Magic" - that's vague. What powers can and can't be put in there (aside from powers simply disallowed as part of mechanics?). None. Now if it was "Fire Magic" at least we are getting a unified special effect. Elemental Control is named such for a reason. It's not called "Inter-dependent Powers" or whatever. People who are going to drain "all mutant powers" are going to drain all mutant powers irregardless of their framework or lack of one - theywill build their power that way. Most people all have their powers from a single source, anyway. By your logic, most everything works as an EC. There are no limits. The VPP as "magic" would only be abusive if they also took the limited special effect lim. Because "magic" is too vague of an effect which excludes nothing.

To be honest, I would vote for Bulldozer over Sapphire. Hell, I'd vote for unnamed Thug #3 over her. She's the new Seeker.

High Power: Fly alongside the train and send my ring floating in to scout it out... then disarm the bomb with a focused EMP. Then I'd summon up a big blue version of the Raider's front line to sack him... since there will be no ref around, they'd rough him up good. Low Power: Washington DC? Bummer. I'm in San Francisco. Hope the fallout blows east. If not, I'll take a jog to Japan or Hong Kong or something.

Well, Wendy & Marvin did solve each and every mystery. Robin in the comics was pretty much always competent. In the Titans, he rocked. Batman was already an adult... I wasn't an adult. So I identified with the kid more. Kid Flash was always great, too. And he had a cooler costume.

You're thinking of Sunburst. Starburst was the guy with the Flash linked to the EB and teamed up with Crusader to stop Ogre from robbing a bank in early edition combat examples. And, iirc, is listed in the back of the BBB, also. I don't like the Champions teams, either (all three of them, counting CNM). As examples of vanilla archetypes, they are ok, I guess. But they are pretty blah otherwise. I never liked Solitaire, for example. I don't think "Magic" qualifies as tight special effect for something like an EC. I mean, let's face it, in gamer geekdom (and much to my annoyance) "magic can do anything." How or why magic should or could be the ultimate force in the universe... well, because it's magic. Would you allow "EC: Alien" or "EC: Superpowered Mutant"? I sure wouldn't. Way too vague.

All you need is European Enemies. Oops... I better duck and hide...

"Well, for one... jetliners aren't flying at supersonic speeds, let alone Mach 3... and secondly, they aren't doing it between buildings, downtown, while the lunch crowd is mobbing the streets." Heh heh... that was a classic.

Sounds like time for a new thread... Character Block (punch, kick).

Steve did a thing on comparitive explosives. I forget where I saw it. Anyone remember?

I find weaknesses as interesting as powers... but not moreso. My group is pretty good when it comes to slapping the mechanics around, too. Often, I think I'm too effective, myself. With Omega Man (kind of like Captain Marvel) it seemed too easy. I ended up purposely finding ways to distract him while the others brawled... then maybe I'd swoop back into the fight if they were getting trashed (meanwhile, I'm clearing innocents out of the way and trying to do damage control). In our low poered game, Bolt was just so much faster than everyone I was intentionally distracting him, too, so it didn't seem like I was doing so much more than everyone else. Now with Starman, a GL type guy... hell, he can do so many different things I'm actually getting kind of bored with him. The problem is, I've played for so long, I can't think of anything new and fun to try that I haven't tried yet, really. *shrug*

That's kind of an interesting idea, the better you hit, you get to flip low dice and end up with a more solid hit. Hmm.

I started in on comics when I was kid. As such, I always liked kid sidekicks because, frankley, I suppose I identified with them more. Books like the Titans were always cool to me and it's been great fun seeing many of them come into their own. I'm particularly a big fan of Dick and Wally.

If you have room for it maybe an "average material penetration chart" Like 1' of stone, 2" of Steel etc based on the average roll. Maybe if you want to do the math you can do a "impact equivalent to X pounds of TNT" which is always fun to say.

I've got it. Give me a minute to find the disk. You want the Justice Inc one, too? Edit: BTW, it's been sent if anyone else is digging up their own reference sheets.

Well, I have eight evil twin brothers that I know of. And two good twin brothers that I know of. I also have three twin cousins on my father's side and at least one twin total stranger who transferred into my school back in my high school days (except he wore glasses) - let me tell you, we had a blast tricking people into thinking we were each other!

Re: Rats My insidious plot is working! Moowahahahaha. I mean "heroic." My heroic plot is working. Now to attack your funds... I was a fanboy buying anything with him on it and I felt it was pretty damn well done (keep in mind, I know when my faves are crap, but since I was completionist... I kept buying and praying. I mean, remember when Eric Larsen got Aquaman? Oh my god... terrible, terrible...)