Teleport Portal

[GCMorris]

Our teleporter wants to make a large portal that everyone can walk through and use as kind of a means of transportation. Does this have to be bought with Usable By Others for each person using it or can it be done another (cheaper) way?

[Hyper-Man]

In addition to UBO this requires Constant and is often referred to as a Teleport Gate.

 

HM

[GCMorris]

I don't see Constant in the 4E book.

[Christopher]

I don't see Constant in the 4E book.

Wait, you have been using 4E this whole time and did not tell us in any of the threads you started? That was not a good idea.

 

We asume that everyone is using 6E, unless they tell us they use 5E or something earlier. None of the rules constructs we gave you before might even work if you are using 4E this whole time.

[Nolgroth]

Is it Continuing in pre-6E?

[Christopher R Taylor]

Its Continuous in 4th edition with usable by others and possibly extra weight, just so someone really big or heavy can get through.

[GCMorris]

Wait, you have been using 4E this whole time and did not tell us in any of the threads you started? That was not a good idea.

 

We asume that everyone is using 6E, unless they tell us they use 5E or something earlier. None of the rules constructs we gave you before might even work if you are using 4E this whole time.

I have started more than a couple of posts stating that I use 4e. As people have said not much has changed I didn't figure that I needed to mention it in every post. My bad

[Nolgroth]

Well Gate is a -1/2 Limitation that also relies on AoE, and Usable By Others (with Xtra Mass). If it uses Non-Combat movement, it requires an Extra Phase. First introduced in Hero 5.  For a 4th Edition build, I'd just say AoE plus Usable By Others with as much mass as the gate can handle at a given time.

[Duke Bushido]

I have started more than a couple of posts stating that I use 4e. As people have said not much has changed I didn't figure that I needed to mention it in every post. My bad

 

Don't take it as having done something wrong or having offended anyone.

 

I don't even use the rules set as "new" as yours, but our groups _do_ co-opt some of the better changes and downgrade them to work with 2e.

 

The reason to specify either : what version you need this to work with 

 

or

 

You just want a rules-legal build regardless of edition and will run with it on your own from there

 

is that most of the people on this board have been here a very long time, and have played using various incarnations of the rules.  A lot of us have played with versions from pre-internet days like your BBB and before.

 

That being said, it's helpful because while not a lot has changed in _general_, the changes are very specific, and can cause a lot of misunderstanding, and might even make some of the advice you get confusing at best and unusable at worst.

 

I did it myself just a few days ago: I posted that a power construct I was undertaking took the Limitation: Uncontrolled.

 

First, that's an _Advantage_.  What I _meant_ was "No Conscious Control."

 

The advice and suggestions I got were _awesome_; these folks are wonderful.

 

My mistake was simple: since both of those (Uncontrolled and NCC) are things we've co-opted from later editions, we simply call them what works for us, but it's not accurate book-wise for folks who actually use editions in which they are featured.  They don't know I'm not using them or perhaps don't know that these aren't in the editions I am using.

 

Still got some really good ideas, though.

 

Sorry-- let me get back to on track here:

 

You'll get advice no matter what you ask because these are _great_ folks.  But you'll get better-tailored advice if you give a better framework for them to use.  It's not always the same people replying, so if you need something edition-specific, it's best to state up front that this is what you're looking for.

 

 

That's all.

 

 

(And like Nolgroth, I'm a fan of AOE for this type of SFX).

[Hyper-Man]

Here is a 5e Teleportation build I posted several years ago that should be easy to convert to 4e rules.

 

Wormhole Stan

52 Does Whatever A Wormhole Can: Multipower, 105-point reserve, (105 Active Points); all slots Requires A Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Side Effects (-1/4)
5u 1) Basic Gate: Teleportation 10", Position Shift, x2 Increased Mass, x4 Noncombat, Usable By Other (+1/4), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Continuous (+1) (105 Active Points) 10
4u 2) Defensive Redirect Gate: Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Missile Reflection, Reflect At Any Target, Line Of Sight (+1/2), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4), Full Range (+1) (105 Active Points); Will Not Work Against Heavy Missiles (-1/4), Visible (-1/4)
4u 3) You Can See What I See: Clairsentience (Sight, Hearing, Radio And Smell/Taste Groups), Targeting, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2 people at once; +1/2) (105 Active Points); Sense Affected As More Than One Sense [very common Sense] (-1/2) 4
5u 4) Offensive Redirect Gate: Indirect (Same origin, any direction; +1/2), Line Of Sight (+1/2) for up to 70 Active Points of Any Ranged Attack, Usable By Other (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (105 Active Points) 4
5u 5) Acme Gate: Stretching 7", Does Not Cross Intervening Space (+1/4), Usable By Other (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Invisible Power Effects, Source Only (Fully Invisible; +1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4) (105 Active Points) 5
5u 6) Watch Where You're Going!: Teleportation 8", Position Shift, x2 Increased Mass, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4), Usable As Attack (+1) (104 Active Points) 5

re: The Gate Limitation
Was not an option in HDv3 but an additional (-1/2) Custom Limitation on slot 1) would only save "1" real point.

 

 

HM

[Christopher R Taylor]

While Area Effect makes sense in a visual way, the nature of teleport doesn't involve size, just mass.  If you can be ported, you can be ported.  So a 400 cubic foot balloon and a block of concrete are both going, no matter their relative sizes.

[eepjr24]

While Area Effect makes sense in a visual way, the nature of teleport doesn't involve size, just mass.  If you can be ported, you can be ported.  So a 400 cubic foot balloon and a block of concrete are both going, no matter their relative sizes.

Huh? Gate advantage specifically does call out size. 6e1, 301:

 

Characters can use Teleportation to create “Gates” — fixed “teleportation fields” that Teleport anything that can fit in them and doesn’t exceed their weight limit. To create a Gate, a character must buy Teleportation with the Advantages Area Of Effect (2m Radius), Usable On Others, and Constant. To be truly effective, a Gate needs Mega-Scaling or a lot of extra Noncombat Movement multiples (thus requiring an extra Phase to use) and Increased Mass; to carry truly large objects, it needs lots of extra mass and a larger Area Of Effect (to make the Gate wide enough for large objects to go through).

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I don't really understand why though.  Usable against others/by others doesn't specify size.  Teleport doesn't specify size.  Just this one construction.  Again I agree it seems to make sense, But again, the power as written teleport's mass, not size.  Two objects of the same mass: one the size of a BB and the other the size of the empire state building; both can be teleported without regard to their area, only their mass.  That's how I understand it and how the rules are written, even in the description of UOO, its about mass, not size.

 

I get the concept behind the Area Effect: it simulates what you see in images and concepts of a gate: a circle x size, you can't get an elephant through.  But that seems to me to be a limitation on teleport, not an advantage.  You're not making the teleport more powerful by putting the size restriction on it, you're making it less powerful.

[Tom Cowan]

Yes, thou the gate lasts for a time and can be used by other people.

[Duke Bushido]

While Area Effect makes sense in a visual way, the nature of teleport doesn't involve size, just mass.  If you can be ported, you can be ported.  So a 400 cubic foot balloon and a block of concrete are both going, no matter their relative sizes.

 

Quite right, of course.

 

I use the AOE to modify the "UBO" part: so long as the character (or the END Reserve, of what-have-you) pays the END, then it's usable by anyone in the AOE.  I use it to avoid the "laying of hands" default that could be awkward for the squad commander to maintain with five people, and is a bit of a logic stretch for a static hoop suspended above the floor.

 

My fault entirely; I should have qualified my comment better.

[Nolgroth]

Yeah I don't really understand why though.  Usable against others/by others doesn't specify size.  Teleport doesn't specify size.  Just this one construction.  Again I agree it seems to make sense, But again, the power as written teleport's mass, not size.  Two objects of the same mass: one the size of a BB and the other the size of the empire state building; both can be teleported without regard to their area, only their mass.  That's how I understand it and how the rules are written, even in the description of UOO, its about mass, not size.

 

I get the concept behind the Area Effect: it simulates what you see in images and concepts of a gate: a circle x size, you can't get an elephant through.  But that seems to me to be a limitation on teleport, not an advantage.  You're not making the teleport more powerful by putting the size restriction on it, you're making it less powerful.

 

Gate is a Limitation. 

[Sean Waters]

I play in an occasional game where the GM*, in a move of genius, has a NPC who is the sister of one of the PCs and a part of the team who is a long range telepath and mass teleporter: she does not come out on missions as she has little combat resilience, but she can telepathically link us and get us to and from missions.

 

The problem with a PC with a mass long range teleport, from a GM POV is the Superman Problem: it is a bit of a killer power and you either need to constantly build stuff to specifically defeat it (hardened defences and such) or assume they can arrive or leave whenever they like, which can make the game a bit boring.

 

The advantage of an external agency providing the power is that it helps both the GM (who can set bits of the game all over the place and not worry about how you get there, plus can have limitations on the NPC that prevent a quick escape: needing to build up energy for an hour, or whatever, occasionally being unavailable, that sort of thing - still Deus Ex but more believable) and for the players who don't have to spend points on stuff that really just makes the game run more smoothly.  You might think of it as the Stargate Solution.

 

The telepath bit allowed instant communication and explained why we all knew what everyone else was doing in game as well as out of it.  She could not use it offensively - it was a Mind Link, in effect.  Again, it really just smoothed game play.

 

Think about having the character's long lost sibling turn up.  Or mother, or grandfather or offspring**: have fun.  

 

OK, that does not answer the question, but others have done that.  Teleport Useable By Others Megascale.  Or Gate; that makes it cheaper.

 

 

 

*Shout out to Jagged

 

** Or ex.  That could be hilarious.

[Christopher]

Yeah I don't really understand why though.  Usable against others/by others doesn't specify size.  Teleport doesn't specify size.  Just this one construction.  Again I agree it seems to make sense, But again, the power as written teleport's mass, not size.  Two objects of the same mass: one the size of a BB and the other the size of the empire state building; both can be teleported without regard to their area, only their mass.  That's how I understand it and how the rules are written, even in the description of UOO, its about mass, not size.

 

I get the concept behind the Area Effect: it simulates what you see in images and concepts of a gate: a circle x size, you can't get an elephant through.  But that seems to me to be a limitation on teleport, not an advantage.  You're not making the teleport more powerful by putting the size restriction on it, you're making it less powerful.

Gate seems not really intended to be a player power. More a plot device that needed a writeup. I mean why would I choose gate on my Teleport? It would only be an early warning for the target area and allow them to strike back through it.

 

I play in an occasional game where the GM*, in a move of genius, has a NPC who is the sister of one of the PCs and a part of the team who is a long range telepath and mass teleporter: she does not come out on missions as she has little combat resilience, but she can telepathically link us and get us to and from missions.

 

The problem with a PC with a mass long range teleport, from a GM POV is the Superman Problem: it is a bit of a killer power and you either need to constantly build stuff to specifically defeat it (hardened defences and such) or assume they can arrive or leave whenever they like, which can make the game a bit boring.

There are two solutions:

a) do not let that NPC cost points. Per the rules of "what not to spend points on", the GM is free to block the use of something no points were paid for at any time without needing a build. And I encourange them to use that options, if it serves the story. "What not to spend points on" rule is more the friend of the GM then the players.

 

Teleport Inhibitor: "Change Environment, -xm Teleport Movement". Per the rules for movement and CE, megascale movemt is affected before the the scaling. So for the usual very small movement meters with massive scaling it would be quite the effective counter. While only slightly affecting combat teleportation.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Gate is a Limitation. 

 

Sure, but the limitation on it is what my namesake mentions above:

 

It would only be an early warning for the target area and allow them to strike back through it.

 

The Area Effect is an advantage, but it offers nothing advantageous, it actually limits what you can teleport through it.

[Christopher]

The Area Effect is an advantage, but it offers nothing advantageous, it actually limits what you can teleport through it.

The minimum Size of a Gate AoE is 2m surface. Human doorsize. How any things will fit into that, but weight more then x16 human mass?

 

I guess gates are kind off wierd by design. I guess we could just wave the Weight Limit in favor of the size limit. Or say only the 1m segment actually crossing the gate counts for weight.

In effect gates just bridge space and even allow attacks to go through - you can not teleport an attack (that would be the special effect of Deflection  Indirect on the Attack).

 

One thing you might have overlooked is that before it is AoE, it is UAA first. This is an attack power before you can even apply AoE.

AoE on any attack power allows you to effect any target within AoE range. You do not even need to touch the target (if the normal range is touch) - it jsut becomes centered on you instead.

I agree that with gate most of that advantage is lost, but you can not even apply Gate without AoE, UOO and Constant (plus likely Megascale). You do retain that none of the intended users have to be touched by you.

You can also still fully weaponise this like any other cheesy Teleportation move (indeed better, as you do not need UAA to weaponise it). It is getting late, but afaik you could turn off a constant power latest at your next phase. Gate into floor. Enemy falls through. Disable power before they can come back.