Transmit Sense Modifier (5e)

[g3taso]

It's a 2-point modifier, and I was wondering if this might be appropriate as a Naked Adder to be applied to a sense group. From the recipients perspective, they receive images (sight group) or audio (hearing group) when someone "sends it". 

 

I thought it would be an interesting power. Is there any reason it wouldn't work as a "naked adder" to various sense groups?

[eepjr24]

I suspect it will do little or nothing, but I asked in the rules forum for clarification.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/93825-transmit-effects/

[bigdamnhero]

It might be an interesting way to simulate how some animals communicate by phermones. But "Transmit Hearing" already exists - it's called "speech." (Or more broadly, the ability to make noise, such as hand clapping, etc.) Transmit Sight is called being visible. Etc. Going beyond that smacks of trying to get either Images or Telepathy on the cheap.

[mallet]

It might be an interesting way to simulate how some animals communicate by phermones. But "Transmit Hearing" already exists - it's called "speech." (Or more broadly, the ability to make noise, such as hand clapping, etc.) Transmit Sight is called being visible. Etc. Going beyond that smacks of trying to get either Images or Telepathy on the cheap.

 

This was my gut reaction also, but the more I think about it the more I think it isn't exactly the case. 

 

I don't think Transmit Hearing is being able to talk or make noise. In game terms talking or making noise would be more like Images (hearing) with gestures or something like that. 

In the same vein Transmit Sight isn't "being visible", everything physical is basically automatically visible unless it takes the Invisibility power. The system doesn't charge points to "make" your character visible.

 

Transmit Hearing & Sight wouldn't allow the character to create specific or generic sounds like images would, it would only be to Transmit what the character is hearing or seeing at that exact moment. Basically making the character a walking wireless video camera/bug (without a record function). And since all characters already get Sight, hearing, ( & Smell, Touch, etc.) for free then Transmit makes sense as an adder on to those senses.

 

But that being said, just because a character can transmit sight or hearing, etc... doesn't mean that an other character could receive/process that information. Just like a character can buy a radio and transmit audio over a distance, another character would still need access to a radio or a power that lets them receive radio waves in order to "hear" the information that is being sent.

 

So I think that at a minimum Mind Link would still be a needed "linked" power to the Transmit Sight or Hearing in order to allow another character to see/hear/smell what the transmitting character is sending, just like mind link is used to build group communicators. 

 

The only difference is that instead of just communicating what the character is saying it is sending what he is seeing or hearing or smelling. 

[Christopher]

We have to clarify one thing: Transmit (Sense Adder) is NOT weaponiseable.

It is purely information and it is only availible for those who actually listen/read. However it is also a broadcast transmission. Everyone in range can eavesdrop*.

It is not images, Telepathy, or Flash. If you want those game effects, buy those game effects.

 

*Encrypted raido is often build via "Mind Link, affect as Radion adn Sight Group". That way a Telepathy build is needed to get in.

 

The classical examples are Radio and Broadcast Television (some television or CCTV is build as Clairsentience[sight] instead).

Another one is the human voice.

While either might incur a distraction modifier (see Perception Modifiers), neither of them makes using that sense inherently impossible. In both cases the distraction is easily turned off/not that usefull (if you shout for help or the other person shouts so your shouts are not heard - the end result is the same).

 

I would say non-canonical Transmissions should not even be able to incur that distraction modifier, if just for the difficulty with possibly "turning them off".

[Lee]

My first thought about "Transmit (Sight)" was creatures that communicate through bioluminescence. Certainly not weaponizable, not secret (anyone with Sight in the right frequency range can see it), but unless you understood the "language", it would just be a lot of pretty lights. I suppose ASL might be similar with Gestures and Restrainable.

 

While I agree that Transmit (Hearing) is "speech", it might be used for "unusual" speech. For instance, whales' ability to communicate (almost) all the way around the world using ultra-low frequency sound.

 

Pheromones might be Transmit (Smell) with some limitations as to range (due to winds dispersing them). Unless of course the being communicating like this could somehow tag or encode the pheromones with uniquely identifiable pheromones and possibly position information...although, carried too far it might become Telepathy.

 

Transmit (Touch) might make for some interesting abilities, but I can't think of any off the top of my head right now. At least none that would have any game value.

 

Lee

[eepjr24]

Transmit (Touch) might make for some interesting abilities, but I can't think of any off the top of my head right now. At least none that would have any game value.

 

Lee

Morse code (or other types) tapped on your friends skin? 

[bigdamnhero]

I've always just treated sign language as a Language Skill. (The fact that it relies on sight instead of hearing roughly balances out IMO.) I think I'd probably handle Morse Code the same way. After all, neither is giving you the ability to make visible/sensory output; they're just allowing you to communicate using them, assuming the person you're trying to communicate with has the same knowledge you do. Sounds like language to me.

 

Bioluminescence and pheromones really sound like Images to me.

 

To make ultra-low (or ultra-high) sounds, just buy subsonic/ultrasonic for your speech. No need to buy Transmit - everyone already has that.

 

The latter does raise an interesting question tho. If a character buys, say, Ultrasonic Hearing I've generally assumed they are also able to make sounds in that range as well. But RAW doesn't actually say this anywhere I can find. It seems silly to make them also buy Ultrasonic for their speech?

[Surrealone]

So I think that at a minimum Mind Link would still be a needed "linked" power to the Transmit Sight or Hearing in order to allow another character to see/hear/smell what the transmitting character is sending, just like mind link is used to build group communicators. 

 

The only difference is that instead of just communicating what the character is saying it is sending what he is seeing or hearing or smelling. 

As this is a 5ER discussion I'll quote 5ER, page 205 (emphases mine):

"A character Mind Linked with another charcter (the "subject") does not use the subject's Senses. He receives the mental impressions of those Senses -- he knows the character sees a particular building, or smells the odor of gasoline -- but he does not himself see the building or smell gasoline. If a mentalist wants to use a subject's senses this way, he should buy Clairsentience Linked to his Mind Link, with the -1 Limitation Only To Use Subject's Senses."

 

i.e. In the case of Transmit, it's not the mentalist wanting to use the Subject's senses, rather, it's the Subject wanting to Transmit those senses to other participants of the Mind Link.  With that in mind, I think your idea is solid when it comes to use of a mind link.... but you'd link the Transmit to the Mind Link (not the other way around). 

 

Using the same idea, another option would be for someone with HRRP to link his/her Transmit Sight to HRRP so that s/he could then make it appear on his/her favourite over-the-air news station's frequency or somesuch.

[Christopher]

Morse code (or other types) tapped on your friends skin? 

If you are close enough to touch the other person, what would you need a special Transmision channel for?

 

I've always just treated sign language as a Language Skill. (The fact that it relies on sight instead of hearing roughly balances out IMO.) I think I'd probably handle Morse Code the same way. After all, neither is giving you the ability to make visible/sensory output; they're just allowing you to communicate using them, assuming the person you're trying to communicate with has the same knowledge you do. Sounds like language to me.

 

Bioluminescence and pheromones really sound like Images to me.

 

To make ultra-low (or ultra-high) sounds, just buy subsonic/ultrasonic for your speech. No need to buy Transmit - everyone already has that.

 

The latter does raise an interesting question tho. If a character buys, say, Ultrasonic Hearing I've generally assumed they are also able to make sounds in that range as well. But RAW doesn't actually say this anywhere I can find. It seems silly to make them also buy Ultrasonic for their speech?

I agree on Sign Langauge being a Language Skill like any other.

 

Regarding ultra-high or low sounds: Every species hears best in the range of sounds covered by thier own voice. There are actually tones we humans can hear that are too high for cats and too low for dogs to hear. Canine hearing stop around 60 kHz lower then the human top frequency, that is a lot of tones. Cat's fare a bit better, missing only the top 25 kHz.

Being able to speak in that frequency is about as much a bonus as fishes being able to breath underwater.

 

About Bioluminescence and pheromones being images:

It never even occured to me. Images are there to either fool someone with faulty sense impressions. Or to make a natural impression easier to hear (using it to produce light/amplify your voice).

Really, it is just anotehr different spectrum for "voice", same way the Ultra-high and low sounds.

 

However what should cost points is the ability to speak on multiple "spectra" of sound or even across unusual sense groups.

Every Character is asuemd to be fluid in his peopels language, use the default human voice spectrum and breath air. The ability to speak more languages and breath underwater all cost points. The ability to communicate in frequencies only dogs or birds can hear on top of normal human voice - that would be a advantage. Same way having a build in Radio would be a advantage:

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2016-05-19

[g3taso]

This was my gut reaction also, but the more I think about it the more I think it isn't exactly the case. 

 

I don't think Transmit Hearing is being able to talk or make noise. In game terms talking or making noise would be more like Images (hearing) with gestures or something like that. 

In the same vein Transmit Sight isn't "being visible", everything physical is basically automatically visible unless it takes the Invisibility power. The system doesn't charge points to "make" your character visible.

 

Transmit Hearing & Sight wouldn't allow the character to create specific or generic sounds like images would, it would only be to Transmit what the character is hearing or seeing at that exact moment. Basically making the character a walking wireless video camera/bug (without a record function). And since all characters already get Sight, hearing, ( & Smell, Touch, etc.) for free then Transmit makes sense as an adder on to those senses.

 

But that being said, just because a character can transmit sight or hearing, etc... doesn't mean that an other character could receive/process that information. Just like a character can buy a radio and transmit audio over a distance, another character would still need access to a radio or a power that lets them receive radio waves in order to "hear" the information that is being sent.

 

So I think that at a minimum Mind Link would still be a needed "linked" power to the Transmit Sight or Hearing in order to allow another character to see/hear/smell what the transmitting character is sending, just like mind link is used to build group communicators. 

 

The only difference is that instead of just communicating what the character is saying it is sending what he is seeing or hearing or smelling. 

The effect is certainly "this is what I'm looking at right now", or "this is what I'm listening to right now". It's a TV broadcast of the senses, not a two-way street. In the real world, special forces throat mikes and such would do this. Our Abrams battle tanks can look through the senses of another vehicle or even control that friendly gun and hit targets they don't have direct sight to.  The idea of a focus of some sort makes sense.

[phoenix240]

My initial reaction is that a character with Transmit for a sense or sense group could broadcast what their character was perceiving with the effected sense at the exact time in real time. But the receiver would automatically know it was broadcast information (Another Power be required to have a chance to fool them into thinking it was something else like their own senses, use it to block and impair their others senses or cover something up, Images, Mental Illusions or Flash, for example) and could shut off/ignore the transmission at will like Mind Link. Essentially, it would function as Mind Link but allow the transmission of sensory information. The Transmitter would have to have some means of perceiving their target.

 

This does leave the question of Range.  Again off the cuff, I'd say like senses, effectively unlimited as long as the receiver can be perceived which may require a Perception roll. A Transmit link can be established and maintained even if line of perception with the receiver is lost though and I'd probably treat it like a Persistent Power in that regard. 

[Lucius]

 

What does Radio Listen and Transmit permit?

 

I would think that would be what it could be reverse engineered from.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Detect Palindromedary with Transmit

[bigdamnhero]

What does Radio Listen and Transmit permit?

Transmit "...allows a character to transmit information similar to that which he can perceive." [6e2 p215] Only this and nothing more. All the other sense include Transmit by default because the baseline for 99.99% of characters is that they are already visible, audible, etc. So adding Transmit to Sight, Hearing, etc is redundant - they already have it.

[phoenix240]

Aren't all characters by default detectable to any sense that could perceive them unless they get Invisibility/Images/Darkness to that sense? 

[Lucius]

Disregard this post

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Ignore this palindromedary

[Lucius]

Transmit "...allows a character to transmit information similar to that which he can perceive." [6e2 p215] Only this and nothing more. All the other sense include Transmit by default because the baseline for 99.99% of characters is that they are already visible, audible, etc. So adding Transmit to Sight, Hearing, etc is redundant - they already have it.

By that logic, the Transmit in Radio Listen and Transmit is redundant because it only allows me to be perceived by radio senses - and any character can by default be detected by radar.

 

I think there is a distinction between "being perceptible" and "transmitting information."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Seeing a palindromedary is one thing, seeing a palindromedary wearing a signboard that says "this space for rent (contact Palindromedary Enterprises to put your message here)" is something else.

[Christopher]

By that logic, the Transmit in Radio Listen and Transmit is redundant because it only allows me to be perceived by radio senses - and any character can by default be detected by radar.

 

I think there is a distinction between "being perceptible" and "transmitting information."

Radar is a active Sense build as "Detect Physical Objects".

 

The whole Radiogroup is odd, because nothing (or only few things) naturally send on it.

That is exactly why we choose it for communication and later longranged detection.

If you see something in the Radiogroup you are either doing the equivalent of Active Echolocation or the other party is actively sending.

 

Practically we do send in the Visible Spectrum (the light our body reflects).

Practically we do send in the Audible Spectrum (the sounds we make walking or talking)

Practically we do send on the Smell Sense group. Since it is there for danger identification, stuff smelling on it is the reason we even have evolved that sense to begin with.

Same way for taste. Danger detection. If it could not do it's work, we would not have evolved it.

Touch is wierd, because it is the only non-ranged sense. And loosing it is rather rare. And invisibiltiy/IPE does not work for it properly (need Desolid).

[phoenix240]

I purchase Detect: Pizza (unusual sense group), Ranged, Discriminatory. Ranged, Acts as Sense, Transmit. 

 

What can my character do  in plain English? 

[Lucius]

I purchase Detect: Pizza (unusual sense group), Ranged, Discriminatory. Ranged, Acts as Sense, Transmit. 

 

What can my character do  in plain English?

Seems to depend on who you ask.

 

By the thinking of some people here, your character can now impersonate a pizza but only to those who can detect pizza.

 

By analogy with the way Radio Transmit works, your character can use whatever "unusual sense group" medium the sense works on to communicate meaningful information - but only to someone who can Detect Pizza. So if, and only if, someone else has the same power, you can "talk" back and forth.

 

A case can be made that you and someone else with the same or similar sense can communicate (perhaps one way if the other person can't Transmit) but only on the limited topic of pizza. Even that might prove useful, one simply has to have an agreed upon code.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says "When I place the order (on my signal) garlic sauce (grab) that anchovy (mentalist or weird power) and I'll breadstick (attack) it, it's thin crust (has low defenses) then we can two for one (gang up on) that meat lover's special (big strong guy.)"

One of the villains afterwards says "How do those palindromedaries coordinate so well? It's like they have some kind of channel of communication we can't even hear!"

[phoenix240]

That seems very convoluted.

[dmjalund]

The thing is Radio is not so much a sense as a communications medium. When ypu transmit via radio, you are actually transmitting visual, audio and/or digital data.

[Hugh Neilson]

Some notes.

 

First, Transmit allows the character to transmit information similar to what he CAN perceive, not similar to what he is presently perceiving. That implies a much broader ability than many are suggesting.

 

Second, perhaps the flaw in the system is that we have retained radio hearing and transmission as separate powers. Maybe Radio Transmission should be "transmit for hearing; limited to those who can detect Radio Waves", and there should be no radio hearing or transmission powers, consistent with the manner in which Radar is not a "radio wave" sense.

 

There is a definite risk of stepping on the toes of Images here, and that is problematic. Transmissions would be obvious transmissions - we know that the transmitted sound on the radio is not really here, or in the next room, and may not even be real at all. Similar for television. Images can mislead the viewer, where transmissions cannot. Perhaps that implies Transmit should be removed from Enhanced Senses and instead become a weaker variant of Images, where the images are obviously not real. Set the cost at half the base cost of images and we get 5 points for a Targeting sense group and 3 for a nontargeting sense group. Given the advantages of transmitting information through nontargeting sense groups, perhaps these should stay at 5 points (but that means no discount for no chance of the target being fooled).

 

At a minimum, Transmit massively increases the range of communication ("common, dramatic sense, or base 1 km per AP if we must have a set range rule). If we fold it into Images, perhaps it takes on Images range, but Transmit is an example of Megascale Ranged (or area) Images.

 

Television then becomes Images, Sight and Hearing, Obviously an Image, Megascale AoE, No Range, recipient must be able to detect broadcast spectrum transmissions (maybe with Discriminatory to translate the images, while Analyze would allow source direction, distance, etc. to be determined).

 

With this in mind:

 

Practically we do send in the Visible Spectrum (the light our body reflects).

We do not naturally transmit video signals over vast differences for others to perceive. Television and Skype do. Nor can we change from transmitting our image from colour to B&W, nor alter the brightness or contrast. I also cannot cause you to see a picture of my Aunt Petunia without some adder.

 

Practically we do send in the Audible Spectrum (the sounds we make walking or talking)

I cannot, however, transmit a Symphony without some outside assistance.

 

Practically we do send on the Smell Sense group. Since it is there for danger identification, stuff smelling on it is the reason we even have evolved that sense to begin with. Same way for taste. Danger detection. If it could not do it's work, we would not have evolved it.

Not combat, but imagine being able to transmit smells and tastes. Having trouble quitting smoking? Hire a Transmitter to fill your senses with the smell and taste of tobacco with none of the side effects. Trying to lose weight, but tempted by that ice cream, cake, and fatty foods? Same answer.

 

Touch is wierd, because it is the only non-ranged sense. And loosing it is rather rare. And invisibiltiy/IPE does not work for it properly (need Desolid).

To avoid NSFW labelling, I will say only "imagine what the porn industry could do with this!" The potential for discipline in a militaristic culture? Great pain with no lasting physical injury? The Mirror Mirror Agonizer from ST:TOS, for example.

 

Now, what if I could transmit in all five sense groups? I could provide you with the sensation of skiing down a mountainside, with you never leaving your home, bearing no risk of injury or need for equipment or skill, and even working if you are paraplegic. It's virtual reality.

[bigdamnhero]

Aren't all characters by default detectable to any sense that could perceive them unless they get Invisibility/Images/Darkness to that sense? 

Absolutely. And that remains true whether or not the character in question has those senses - in other words, me being blind doesn't make you invisible (even if you are effectively invisible to me). Which indicates that it's a factor of you having physical form, not of me having senses.

 

By that logic, the Transmit in Radio Listen and Transmit is redundant because it only allows me to be perceived by radio senses - and any character can by default be detected by radar.

 

I think there is a distinction between "being perceptible" and "transmitting information."

Radio Group is the specific exception to the rule because 1) most characters do not emit significant radio waves, and 2) the equipment used to broadcast radio signals and the equipment required to receive them are two different things that are frequently sold separately (ie - car radio, locator beacons, etc).

 

And Radar is a bad example because it's an Active Sense: the perceiving character emits their own radar pulse, and detects the return of their own signal.

 

You make a fair point about the distinction between being perceivable vs transmitting information. Tho there's another fine line between "transmitting information" and "communicating" - the latter is Mind Link, Clairvoyance, etc. Regardless, adding Transmit to Sight or Hearing is redundant and redundant because most characters already broadcast visual and audible information by default.

 

I purchase Detect: Pizza (unusual sense group), Ranged, Discriminatory. Ranged, Acts as Sense, Transmit. 

 

What can my character do  in plain English? 

Since you've defined it as an Unusual Sense, you have some latitude. If you wanted to be able to "re-broadcast" the information you Detected, I'd probably allow that. So if you Detect a thin crust pepperoni pizza in the kitchen, anyone nearby who also had Detect Pizza would be able to know "Phoenix240 says there's a thin crust pepperoni pizza in the kitchen." But no more than that - you wouldn't be able to have a conversation about it, discuss your favorite toppings, or coordinate how to divvy up the pie without Mind Link or something similar. Or just, y'know, talking.

 

OTOH if you had somehow bought it as based on Sight Group (maybe your character is blind but can only see pizza?) then I don't think Transmit would add anything because the pizza is already transmitting information visibly, ie - everyone else can already see it.

 

BTW if I ever run a Dresden Files game in Hero, I'm totally stealing Detect Pizza for the Faerie builds!

 

Edit: The ability to impersonate a pizza, while hysterical, would clearly be Images.

[g3taso]

Some notes.

 

First, Transmit allows the character to transmit information similar to what he CAN perceive, not similar to what he is presently perceiving. That implies a much broader ability than many are suggesting.

 

... Television then becomes Images, Sight and Hearing, Obviously an Image, Megascale AoE, No Range, recipient must be able to detect broadcast spectrum transmissions (maybe with Discriminatory to translate the images, while Analyze would allow source direction, distance, etc. to be determined).

 

... Now, what if I could transmit in all five sense groups? I could provide you with the sensation of skiing down a mountainside, with you never leaving your home, bearing no risk of injury or need for equipment or skill, and even working if you are paraplegic. It's virtual reality.

Try Phillip Dick's "We can remember it for you wholesale" novella

 

At the risk of oversimplifying, I submit that following this train of thought Transmit (Senses) is analogous to Images corresponding to a sense group (albeit with a "we know it's a transmission and not reality" limitation for the recipient as well as the requirement of requiring some means of receiving those images. Unlike Mind Link, communication is possible but only indirectly, due to the "sending" being one-way and limited to visual imagery (or whatever is analogous to imagery in various other sense groups).

 

I am curious what you all think about how this sending is accomplished. In the event of noticing a bunch of mooks coming up from behind, our hero Transmits this to his party. Does this work as:

1. Visualize a short note "group of mooks coming up from behind" that someone could "see" and understand, or

2. Show them your visual feed of mooks approaching from behind, hoping the others in your party who can receive this imagery can interpret it

3. You send them the summary impression of "mooks coming up from behind"

 

I personally