Mind Reading (Telepathy?) to see opponents CV levels value on NEXT phase?

[RicoZaid]

6th Edition. I was wondering if it is possible to allow a character (or NPC) to use Mind Reading (Telepathy?) to determine opponents CV level allocation for his NEXT phase and then change her CV allocation based off that result.

 

So Sally Reads Ben's mind by (some threshold? 3x Ego?) and now she can determine how he will allocate his CV values ON Ben's NEXT phase.

 

Is this possible? Is there a better way? 

 

Thanks!

[Lucius]

 

You're looking in the character's mind for information that is in the PLAYER's mind.

 

Telepathy might (or might not) be able to tell you "he's about to strike aggressively" or "he's planning to block and play defense as he figures out what I can do" or something, but what's going on in the character's mind is not "Okay, I'm going to put X levels in OCV and Y in DCV....."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I have a palindromedary going through my mind right now

[massey]

Best way is probably to buy higher combat values, and then limit them, only to counter opponent's level allocation.

[DasBroot]

Yeah, this only really works if Ben's player (or the GM) knows themselves lf how they're going to allocate their combat values.

 

Massey's way is cleanest - and cheaper, too, than trying to get a telepathy damage pool high enough to overcome ego +20 or +30.

 

And it covers all the psychic ninja "I knew what you were going to do before you did" tropes out there.

 

Heck, it could even just be something as simple as buying DCV with a telepathic SFX (maybe with a -1/4 to -1/2 disadvantage 'doesn't work on automatons).  

[RicoZaid]

Best way is probably to buy higher combat values, and then limit them, only to counter opponent's level allocation.

 

Cool but I'd also have to add the limitation "only after a +20 (30?) ego Telepathy roll" as I need these "countering levels" to only apply if the Mind Reading works, not every single time. Is that okay?

[mrinku]

Sounds fine. Stepping aside from game mechanics, the special effect you're after is using telepathy to predict your opponent's moves, so requiring a roll of some kind  or a telepathy connection makes sense. If you have "requires a +20 EGO telepathic link with the opponent" limitation you wouldn't even need "only to counter opponent" if you didn't want... you could simply have a higher base CV against that opponent due to being able to predict their moves.

 

I Know Your Move Before You Do: +3 OCV +3 DCV (30pts), requires a +20 EGO telepathic link with the opponent (-1); 15 pts.

 

The limitation value would vary depending on how easy getting a +20 link was in context. If the character's telepathy is is weak or mental defence common in the setting, the power may be worth less.

 

You also might make the required link less powerful... if someone's preparing to shoot you, it's not exactly a subconscious thought.

 

It also sounds a bit like Analyze Combat Technique, though that won't give CV bonuses to the extent you're looking for here.

[RicoZaid]

Thanks!

 

I'm wanting this idea because most of the fighters are Dex 15 but all have 12-36 melee CV levels to distribute so prediction of allocation seems critical otherwise it will just be a random guess... it would pure chance that your OCV or DCV is even close of where it needs to be.

[Greywind]

Analyze: Opponent's combat style

[Chris Goodwin]

Thanks!

 

I'm wanting this idea because most of the fighters are Dex 15 but all have 12-36 melee CV levels to distribute so prediction of allocation seems critical otherwise it will just be a random guess... it would pure chance that your OCV or DCV is even close of where it needs to be.

 

Wait a minute.  You're saying most of the fighters have DEX 15, but some can put at least twelve levels into melee CV, and some can put as many as thirty-six?  Like, let's say their average base OCV is 5, but some characters can have an effective OCV of between 17 and 41 just based on Combat Skill Levels?  

 

And are you saying that the characters have spent points on Detects, Telepathy, etc., so that they can determine what another character's allocation of CSLs is, so that they can optimize their own to that?  

 

Generally, as a GM I would say not only no but unprintably no.  Like, taboo levels of unprintably no.  I'd make up swear words to say exactly how no.  

 

As with the other posters in this thread and the other; you can buy powers and Skills that will let you, in character, gauge how much better or worse than another character is, in character.  Technically, buying Powers that let you gauge other characters' game mechanical representations are rules legal, but ... gahhh, I can't find the words to say just how I feel about this, unprintable or otherwise.  It's like, why not just buy Detect Character Sheet (Discriminatory, Analyze, etc. etc. etc.)?  Detect GM's Adventure Notes?  Detect NPCs Complications?  

 

I found some words.  IMO, that's a massive violation of the spirit of the game.  The spirit of gaming.  

 

If you're playing in a game, and you're all playing like that because the GM drives you to it, or if the other players are doing it and the GM is letting them, I can't tell you how sorry I feel that you're in that kind of game.  

 

In a silly game once, I built myself as a player.  Not myself as a character, but myself as a player.  Like, I bought a Mind Link with the other characters, so that the GM couldn't ever say to me, "You're not there, you can't know that."  But that was a particular game, with complete and utter silliness as the basis.  I would never, ever, not ever, try to get away with that in a serious campaign.  

 

Edit to add:  And that's a ridiculous amount of Combat Skill Levels, anyway.  

[RicoZaid]

OMG Awesome reply, funny and helpful  

 

The (bad) idea is both sides (bad guys and good guys) are essentially mirrors of each other. They'd both have some type 'mind' mechanic to try (roll) and discover their opponent CV level allocation and adjust their allocation accordingly. If one of them fails to detect their opponents he's at a disadvantage, he has to guess the opponent CV allocation or delay + abort-block, abort-dodge, etc. (I think)

 

Anyway that was the idea.

 

I appreciate the insight very much.

[megaplayboy]

Outside the box idea: an adder for Danger Sense, enables you to anticipate the next action of an opponent with a successful roll.  +20 points?

[mrinku]

Too meta for me. I'd go with limited extra Speed (action must be held and only used to interrupt an opponent, -¾). Throw in "Requires a Roll - Analyze Style" or something if you like.

[megaplayboy]

Precognition, 0 END cost, only to "see" opponent's next move in combat(-2), 20 points.

[mrinku]

Right. So now you run into the usual problem with precog: what if the situation has changed by the time they act and they wouldn't do what the GM or player thought they'd do?

 

It's fine for the special effect to be limited precog, but I'd build it as extra speed, CV or even CSLs and in the process avoid a world of argument and second guessing. As with any power, such a special effect might occasionally give you a minor bonus ("He went that way!"), and playing out what happens when you attack and hit may include the SFX ("He dodges to the left but because you predicted that your punch connects").

[bluesguy]

Hi,

 

Can you post a couple of character builds here so we can see what you are dealing with.  I have been playing Hero for a long time and I have never run into a situation like the one you are describing. 

[DasBroot]

Wow.

 

Yeah, in that game I'd forget about buying DCV and OCV and focus on buying Resistant Protection and Area of Effect: Accurate  on my attacks.

[massey]

Yeah, that's the game where you want to play a mentalist, with a bunch of ECV-based attacks.

[RicoZaid]

I'd go with limited extra Speed (action must be held and only used to interrupt an opponent, -¾). Throw in "Requires a Roll - Analyze Style" or something if you like.

 

Hell yea, this is awesome!

 

Yea, it's basically some kind of "Precognition" of what the other guy is going to do and then being able to do something about it (requires a roll and cost a lot of endurance though)

[Sean Waters]

Hero combat is so proverbially free flowing and speedy that what we really need is a few extra rolls every phase to slow down the breakneck pace.

 

Hmm.

 

So, I'm not sure that most people decide in combat what they are going to do ahead of time: they react to openings and errors.  Mike Tyson famously said that everyone has a plan until they are hit in the face.

 

In any event knowing what your opponent is thinking may not help. CLICKY