Galactic Champions

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by Kristopher

C) I think the idea that supers should be able to handle tanks (and major bank vaults) with ease grossly undervalues the toughness and power of armored vehicles.

 

All I can say is... if I play a brick, and they can't do this, I'd rather play a Mentalist.

 

At least they *should* only be powerful vs things that aren't hardware.

 

Also, remember, from above... 'Grond can juggle tanks, but he can't crush them'?

 

I really liked 'Kills' from C:NM.

 

Attacks over 13d6 did Kills vs inanimate objects instead of knockback. If you can't do kills, you can't hurt it. However, +1d6 after that = +1 Kills done.

 

Since a human being (max STR 10 ("50")if *legendary*, max 9 if anything short of) with a martial maneuver (+2 DC; I think there was a +4 DC maneuver) can do, at most, 1 Kill (and that's if they're strongest man *ever*), it takes real powers to bust tanks... but not 30-40d6.

 

It also let people survive said attacks... which is what often happens in fiction.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by RDU Neil

Here we have to disagree. A starting character IS weaker than someone with 300 EXP. The fact that players have taken a character through years of gaming should be rewarded by their characters earning the power and reputation of being "the big guns" and new characters, while perfectly competent, are just not in their level. To me, that is the whole point of long running games. The PCs earn their place in the world... it's not just handed to them at the starting levels.

The fact is though, that you are supposed to be emulating a genre, not emulating D&D style gaming. Few comic book characters have actually grown more powerful over the last 65 years. Captain America is not more powerful, Spider-man is not more powerful, ect. What those characters do get is broader. They use the experience to buy more things and more skills. Cap did not spend his experience on more d6 with his shield so he could be as tough as Thor. Spider-man learned new web tricks, and built tracers, etc

 

I think of starting characters as high school stars who just went to college. They were great on the HS field, but it's a whole new ballgame in the college ranks... not to mention the Pros! (There are few, if any, LeBron James of the superhero set.)

I never think of characters like that. I might want to play a character who has been a hero for 20 years. Or I might want to play one who has been a hero for 20 minutes. Power levels should not be the factor in emulating character concept. Once again, that is a D&D thing, not a HERO thing.

 

Again, have to disagree... Daredevil not only IS inferior to Spider-Man, he knows it.

Daredevil would never go into a fighting thinking he had no chance against Spider-man, and all the fights they have had over the years prove that. The same could be said for Spider-man and Ironman. Heck, I have seen Spidey go up against the entire FF and the entire X-men. He never once thought to himself: I can't beat Colossus because he has 35 point of PD.

 

A super can destroy a car in the time it takes me to start walking to the tool shed to get my sledge hammer. That is heinously powerful, even it does take 12 seconds (four attacks) that is still INSANE compared to anything in the real world.

I do not put real world concepts into my Champions games. As my Sig says, I am trying to emulate a genre, not real life.

 

And that old "one panel is one action" has not been a comic book standard for 20 years. If you are still playing in the 60s 70s comic style... I really don't think Hero is, or ever was, the system for that. It much better fits a more down to earth, Iron Age style of game no matter what it's original intent.

One panel one Phase has always been the standard behind the Speed system. And I personally hate Iron Age, Dark Champions style games, and think the system is most flawed in the lover genres.

 

Here your argument holds weight except, in other threads, you berate people for "changing the rules" by tossing out the stun lotto on KAs, but in this thread you say every game needs to have it's house rules. Be consistent. If you use a flat stun modifier (another argument entirely I know) you will find people taking KAs for what they were built to do... BODY damage.

You are taking three different things out of context and trying to mesh them into what you wrote above? I do not berate people for changing the rules, and never have. But I have stated that I have no problem with the Stun Lotto. I think it is the only thing that makes Killing Attacks useful in any fashion, because without the Stun Lotto KAs do less STUN on average than a normal attack. And I have never had a problem with people using house rules. As I have said many times, I have several house rules like the one above.

 

Hero System provides a framework, one of many systems out there, to simulate superheroics. I find it surprising that so many try to do 4 color with Hero, because I feel it doesn't do that very well. It's too crunchy. M&M or some other is much more 4 color. Hero does lower level, guns and martial arts, and low level supers VERY well... but it doesn't really work well for old style, massive property damage on a Byrne/Perez scale superheroics. It's damage levels or more normal. Cars can be wrecked, but not shredded into confetti very easily. Tanks can be stopped, but not scrapped very easily.

The HERO System never had any problems emulating the genre until it was made into a "universal" system, then all the internal consistencies had to made viable across the systems. So then you get tanks supers cannot beat because they need to be able to withstand their own damage.

 

I disagree on the lower level material though. I think Hero works fine at mid-level, and I know gamers who swear it only works well at high level. Things like that are just subjective and based on personal tastes.

 

If you want your characters to do this, you can make up a house rule... or you can just allow the points and damage classes that reflect that level of damage to characters who have earned that with years of EXP. I go with the latter.

That probably stems from the fact that you have a multi-year game going, and you have allowed everyone's power levels to increase over those years. So your players no longer fight 10d6 villains. All you did was make yourself need to design more 20-30d6 villains. You are playing the same game, you have just double everything for heroes and villains. So your players probably are not more powerful than they were against the villains before. They are probably at the same plateau they were when everyone was doing 12d6.

[Blue]

I just wanted to say that it's nice to read a thread with disagreements that has well-reasoned responses and not flames. This has been very entertaining.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Kristopher

C) I think the idea that supers should be able to handle tanks (and major bank vaults) with ease grossly undervalues the toughness and power of armored vehicles. [/b]

Do you read comic books?

[Storn]

That probably stems from the fact that you have a multi-year game going, and you have allowed everyone's power levels to increase over those years. So your players no longer fight 10d6 villains. All you did was make yourself need to design more 20-30d6 villains. You are playing the same game, you have just double everything for heroes and villains. So your players probably are not more powerful than they were against the villains before. They are probably at the same plateau they were when everyone was doing 12d6.

 

Mono, be careful... you are not in this game... but I am. Right now, we are fighting 10d6 villians... we are 10d6 heroes. And they exist in the same world as my 600 pt character. But we've rarely faced 20 -30d6 villians, no matter what range we are playing in. It happens occasionally, but not as standard foes. As a result, my 600 pt character really is one of the most powerful people in the world.

 

Now, I think your house rule has merit... depending on the type of game you are running. For totally 4 color, tons of property damage, it makes perfect sense to me. It also is less die rolling and easy math...which alwasy appeals to me as a someone who looks for elegant systems. I think doubling is too much..13d6 shouldn't do 26 body to a structure... that seems too skewed. Just my .02. But I think 1 & 1/2 would make sense... then you are looking at 20 body. But that is a bit more math crunchy.

 

I never think of characters like that. I might want to play a character who has been a hero for 20 years. Or I might want to play one who has been a hero for 20 minutes. Power levels should not be the factor in emulating character concept. Once again, that is a D&D thing, not a HERO thing.

 

I also think that sometimes ya just wanna play a character who has 20 years of experience is perfectly fine. Neil doesn't share that idea...he wants to see his PCs get their points the old fashion way... they have to EARN it (paraphrasing merryl lynch ads...which is funny since it really is Merryl Lynch... we cook the books). BUT!!! Neil's view is not rooted in D&D, trust me on this one. He doesn't want to see me labor over 12 years gathering 600 xp and then turn around and introduce a brand new character who clocks in at 700 just because the concept would allow for it. Neither way is wrong... just different.

 

But Neil's idea of attacking a car and every bit of it taking the damage makes sense too... I like the visual appeal, sure the car ain't stopped, but 12d6 takes out two tires, most of the glass and the car is definitely damaged. Makes Spreading more appealing, and genre emulative... for in the comics, Spreading EBs is a way of life.

 

This is a good discussion though... some thoughtful ideas on both sides. I do feel, percieve that my 600 pts teke character should be able to take out an Abrams in 1 to 2 shots... but my brand new PC is really going to have to work for it with his main attack being an 11d6 punch. And probably take awhile. Of course, my tactic for Vector (600 pts) would be to entice the tank into firing...then missile deflect and reflect the shell back... which he can do with great skill. 120mm HEAP attack is nothing to sneer at.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Blue

I just wanted to say that it's nice to read a thread with disagreements that has well-reasoned responses and not flames. This has been very entertaining.

I agree. I just wish the thread had done that while sticking to the topic in the subject header.

[Storn]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade

I agree. I just wish the thread had done that while sticking to the topic in the subject header.

 

Bob, the tangent hasn't strayed that far. In my opinion, it talks directly to the idea of huge amounts of property damage, taking on star cruisers and the like that the Legion of Super Heroes does on a monthly basis.

 

And if there is one comic that seems to be the blueprint for Galactic Champs... it would be Legion of Super Heroes.

 

Now, one superhero model has the above mentioned Star Cruiser with 30 armor with no hope of destorying it really and the battle moves to "get inside, destroy from the inside format". Perfectly acceptable way of doing superheroes with high tech.

 

The Legion model is Mon-El flying thru Battle Cruiser after Battle crusier destroying them as he goes... or Elemental Lad transforming the whole damn thing. To do that, one has to have active pt attacks in the 200 range... just enormous pt inflation. Think of the END, think of the defenses needed to do a move through. Also, perfectly acceptable way of emulating supers.

 

so the question of how to do property damage w/o having to throw tons and tons of dice is a perfectly valid divergence to happen... in my opinion.

[Monolith]

Yes, I agree with Storn here. These two topics are intertwined. GC will be dealing with ATRI 13-14 technology for the most part, and just looking at the Varanyi G'U'RADIC Star Galleon we see a ship with 136 points of DEF. Even the Al'Tegg has 74 DEF, and these are ATRI 12 ships, not 13. So the question is what are we trying to emulate?

 

Dr. D doing a Destroyer Beam pushed haymaker and rolling maximum damage would only do 72 BODY. Not even enough to damage a single ship.

 

I love the concept of GC because I love the idea of mixing superhero and scifi, but I certainly don't want to think that everyone needs a 200+ Active Point attack just to be able to damage a single enemy ship. So there needs to be some way for these two genres to mesh. As my example shows, even my max damage house rule would not solve the problem.

 

AW/TE/GF vehicles are too powerful within themselves. They go too far out of the way trying to show you that you need a 25d6 RKA antimatter bomb to be able to damage them. That can work fine within its own genre/enviroment. But it does not work when you try to mix genres. Basically because no hero or villain should have 25d6 RKA pistols on their sides, IMO.

 

My personal opinion is that defensive structure need to be toned down. A hero doing 12d6 should be effective in his enviroment, but unfortunately that 12d6 hero cannot even blow up a VW bug, blow a hole in the street, or knock down a reinforced concrete wall.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Storn

Bob, the tangent hasn't strayed that far. In my opinion, it talks directly to the idea of huge amounts of property damage, taking on star cruisers and the like that the Legion of Super Heroes does on a monthly basis.

All you say is quite correct, Storn, as far as it goes. I'm not saying it's out of place; I'd just like a little more breadth in people's thoughts on the matter, is all. Like, what kind of setting elements would be best?

 

And since you bring up LSH... it occurs to me that the Legion has had some of the lowest-powered superheroes in comics. In particular, the members of the Legion Espionage Squad (back in the day... I don't even know if that division's still in use since the Zero Hour reboot) wouldn't be able to do much in toe-to-toe combat with most villains, at least without a lot of creativity, but they were pretty darn effective characters nonetheless. Maybe a little on that angle of things -- characters who have one minor superpower but otherwise rely on wits and equipment -- would be a good section.

[Jhamin]

Originally posted by Storn

so the question of how to do property damage w/o having to throw tons and tons of dice is a perfectly valid divergence to happen... in my opinion.

 

Which was pretty much what I was asking in response to the "What do you want to see?" question.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade

All you say is quite correct, Storn, as far as it goes. I'm not saying it's out of place; I'd just like a little more breadth in people's thoughts on the matter, is all. Like, what kind of setting elements would be best?

 

And since you bring up LSH... it occurs to me that the Legion has had some of the lowest-powered superheroes in comics. In particular, the members of the Legion Espionage Squad (back in the day... I don't even know if that division's still in use since the Zero Hour reboot) wouldn't be able to do much in toe-to-toe combat with most villains, at least without a lot of creativity, but they were pretty darn effective characters nonetheless. Maybe a little on that angle of things -- characters who have one minor superpower but otherwise rely on wits and equipment -- would be a good section.

That's the thing. I hear so many people say that LOSH was full of one superpower characters. Yes in background but no in building the characters. Regardless of their power concept, they all would be built with communications powers, the ability to survive in space, flight, and a few other things. A blaster with the regular LOSH gear is a pretty well-rounded character.

[RDU Neil]

I do read the current Legion comic, and some of the characters are effective in space battles, they do not take out big cruisers in one shot... not even Monel. Fighters, shuttles... yeah... but the tech keeps the Legion in check, to some degree. They are special individuals, but more and more like super space police, and not this group of child godlings who can thwart entire super sciene civilizations in 22 pages.

 

As comics have matured, much of the "classic bits" like the hulk pulverizing a tank with one shot... have faded. Sure the hulk can stop a tank, toss a tank, flip a tank... but he is rarely shown turning them into confetti anymore (at least in the Avengers, which is one of the few Marvel comics I read)

 

Writers, in many cases, but not all, have toned down the casual property damage, or if they haven't, they have used it to indicate just how unbelievably powerful characters are (a'la the Authority) and that others are afraid to mess with those guys.

 

Finally, Monolith, I do not appreciate being told what I'm "supposed" to be doing when I play champions. You want to emulate a genre based on your interpretation, fine... but don't try to imply yours is the only correct way to do it. I've actually never intended to emulate a genre... I've wanted to actually take the idea of superhumans from the comic books, and create a world I find more interesting and believable... more consistent, and definitely avoiding most four color concepts. That is my game, and it has lasted over 16 years.

 

And comparing me to a D&D hack is insulting, and you have no basis to do so. You are right... the players using their long term characters often don't fight 300 pt villains. Doesn't mean they don't face them occasionally. In those cases, the villains often just give up. The game has become one of "I have such great power... so what do I do with it?" These characters have been changing the world. They have started nations, and colonized Mars... become ambassadors and fought entire wars. I've actually made a conscious effort to not just suddenly have new villains with lots of points show up just to keep up with the heroes. There have always been villains out there more powerful... older "big guns" fought them in the past, and now the PCs have stepped up to take their spot... but in many cases the world has become too small for these guys... and that makes for fascinating role playing. THAT is what the game is about to me. Growth, change, the question of power and how to use it.

 

I play Champions (Hero System, really... I love it because it is a generic/balanced system... not for "genre feel") because it allows me to tell the stories I wish I could read in the comics. I am inspired by comics... but I do it my way... not following a very confused, contradictory and inconsistent "genre" because I'm "supposed to."

[lemming]

Originally posted by RDU Neil

The game has become one of "I have such great power... so what do I do with it?" These characters have been changing the world. They have started nations, and colonized Mars... become ambassadors and fought entire wars.

Sounds like a pretty cool game, IMO.

 

Oh, and someone was underestimating the Espionage Squad. Sure they weren't Element Lad or Monel, but they were pretty powerful in their time. (Granted I'm going off of 15 year old memories or more...)

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by lemming

Oh, and someone was underestimating the Espionage Squad. Sure they weren't Element Lad or Monel, but they were pretty powerful in their time. (Granted I'm going off of 15 year old memories or more...)

I was thinking of Invisible Kid, Shrinking Violet, and Princess Projectra in particular. These individuals were good in a fight not so much because of their powers themselves as because of their creative use of them, and whatever equipment they had with them (usually provided by Brainiac 5, another easily-underestimated character).

[drrushing]

galactic heroes, galactic damage

 

I really like this thread. All the aspects presented are interesting. For my part, gaming and GMing, with Champions, as the characters gained experience, their power levels only went up marginally. Say from a starting point of 50 base to 75 base points at the characters peak. What we do and have done in our campaigns is to allow Combined attacks, advantages like AP, and Penetrating. Skills like Find Weakness. Also, in certain situations, ala Mon-El flying through spaceship after spaceship, allow hit locations. By allowing hit locations on large objects, the player can concentrate a great deal of damage on a small area. Thus, with their original attack(not a 200 pt. world buster), they can reasonably effect the outcome they wanted. Does that seem plausible?

[RDU Neil]

Re: galactic heroes, galactic damage

 

Originally posted by drrushing

I really like this thread. All the aspects presented are interesting. For my part, gaming and GMing, with Champions, as the characters gained experience, their power levels only went up marginally. Say from a starting point of 50 base to 75 base points at the characters peak. What we do and have done in our campaigns is to allow Combined attacks, advantages like AP, and Penetrating. Skills like Find Weakness. Also, in certain situations, ala Mon-El flying through spaceship after spaceship, allow hit locations. By allowing hit locations on large objects, the player can concentrate a great deal of damage on a small area. Thus, with their original attack(not a 200 pt. world buster), they can reasonably effect the outcome they wanted. Does that seem plausible?

 

Your "hit location on vehicles" idea is something I like, and have toyed with myself. It's just that, even after years of gaming, there really hasn't been too many "have to take out this vehicle to win" type of scenarios... and the ones that have come up... the heroes win pretty handily... if not in one blow.

 

I've toyed with the following. Against a vehicle... simply roll a d6. On a 1 or 2 damage is halved because non-vital area was hit. One a 3 or 4 damage as rolled.... on a 5 or 6 damage is 1.5 or doubled... indicating critical shot. Very simple... and actually gives the flavor of both the car shot to pieces but still going, as well as the one shot "BOOOM!"

[Enforcer84]

One thing I have noticed about the "Cosmic" titles is that the powers are actually further "out there" as well as simply Take brick, energy projector, speedster, and mentalist - blend until smooth.

 

Element Lad

Matter Eater Lad

Molecule Man

Silver Surfer

Manits

Glorian

 

These indviduals can alter the nature of matter and can create something out of nothing. Just about anyone who can do this is considered a heavy hitter. Even someone as otherwise weak as Molecule Man. They can do things even "normal" level supers can't do.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by RDU Neil

I do read the current Legion comic, and some of the characters are effective in space battles, they do not take out big cruisers in one shot... not even Monel. Fighters, shuttles... yeah... but the tech keeps the Legion in check, to some degree. They are special individuals, but more and more like super space police, and not this group of child godlings who can thwart entire super sciene civilizations in 22 pages.

 

As comics have matured, much of the "classic bits" like the hulk pulverizing a tank with one shot... have faded. Sure the hulk can stop a tank, toss a tank, flip a tank... but he is rarely shown turning them into confetti anymore (at least in the Avengers, which is one of the few Marvel comics I read)

 

Writers, in many cases, but not all, have toned down the casual property damage, or if they haven't, they have used it to indicate just how unbelievably powerful characters are (a'la the Authority) and that others are afraid to mess with those guys.

 

Finally, Monolith, I do not appreciate being told what I'm "supposed" to be doing when I play champions. You want to emulate a genre based on your interpretation, fine... but don't try to imply yours is the only correct way to do it. I've actually never intended to emulate a genre... I've wanted to actually take the idea of superhumans from the comic books, and create a world I find more interesting and believable... more consistent, and definitely avoiding most four color concepts. That is my game, and it has lasted over 16 years.

 

And comparing me to a D&D hack is insulting, and you have no basis to do so. You are right... the players using their long term characters often don't fight 300 pt villains. Doesn't mean they don't face them occasionally. In those cases, the villains often just give up. The game has become one of "I have such great power... so what do I do with it?" These characters have been changing the world. They have started nations, and colonized Mars... become ambassadors and fought entire wars. I've actually made a conscious effort to not just suddenly have new villains with lots of points show up just to keep up with the heroes. There have always been villains out there more powerful... older "big guns" fought them in the past, and now the PCs have stepped up to take their spot... but in many cases the world has become too small for these guys... and that makes for fascinating role playing. THAT is what the game is about to me. Growth, change, the question of power and how to use it.

 

I play Champions (Hero System, really... I love it because it is a generic/balanced system... not for "genre feel") because it allows me to tell the stories I wish I could read in the comics. I am inspired by comics... but I do it my way... not following a very confused, contradictory and inconsistent "genre" because I'm "supposed to."

The irony of this post is that you are upset with Monolith for criticizing your style of game and finish by criticizing his.

[RDU Neil]

I had another long post... maybe I'll stick it in somewhere... but the idea boiled down to this.

 

Should taking out a space craft be "one panel" or the entire issue.

 

To me, the supers attacking the fleet should be a mini-campaign in and of itself. Entire episodes should be "how do we get past the fighters, get on board the mother ship, and make our way to the control room?" kind of things... not multiple rounds of "I fly over and punch that ship... okay then I fly over a laser vision that other ship" which to me lacks any drama or interest.

 

Think of it this way. A space cruiser is like a flying base. Do heroes normally take out the villain base in one panel by flying through it? (Maybe in the Authority.) But I'd say no. The heroes fight their way through the base to the big bad.

 

Why should a space cruiser be different? It should be an adventure unto itself.

 

Granted, fighter craft may be smaller and lighter... think the difference between taking out a f-15 and taking out an air craft carrier. A 300-350 point character would have a challenge in taking out a fighter jet, but could probably do it if they had the flight speed. They'd most likely have a long grueling struggle to take an air craft carrier... if possible at all. Same thing translated into space combat, really.

 

If you want a character who can take out a battle ship in one blow, you've probably got a 2000 pt. Superman/Apollo type of character... not your typical PC. There is only one character in my world even close to this power level, an NPC, reformed villain, who purposefully tries to not use his powers because they could, literally, destroy the planet. This NPCs place in the world, the political/social impact he has simply by existing... his relationship with the heroes... are all long term sub-plots that, to me, add a lot of depth and richness the comic genre rarely explores. How this NPC will be used in the ongoing struggle to unite the world to face a likely invasion is a major plot point.

[RDU Neil]

Originally posted by Agent X

The irony of this post is that you are upset with Monolith for criticizing your style of game and finish by criticizing his.

 

It's only irony if I was unaware of what I was writing.

 

Monolith.. s/he, it... started this fight... but I can give as good as I get. That Monolith creature is the primary reason I rarely post on these boards. Self-righteous, antagonistic, and blindly dogmatic in their assumption of what a game should be. I can respond in kind... I just usually prefer to ignore her/him.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by RDU Neil

Monolith.. s/he, it... started this fight... but I can give as good as I get. That Monolith creature is the primary reason I rarely post on these boards. Self-righteous, antagonistic, and blindly dogmatic in their assumption of what a game should be. I can respond in kind... I just usually prefer to ignore her/him.

I stared this fight? I responded to Storn about my house rule for vehicles (which he thought was not a terrible idea), and then you come out and tell me how my game are run, and how I use Killing Attacks and the like. I never addressed you until you decided to start telling people how you think I game. And the for some reason you got on some self-righteous horse and decided to tell me how I am all wrong. I was not antagonistic to you at all. I would have been more than happy to ignore you like I normally do.

[Storn]

Whoa... go do some xmas shopping and come back to Galactic Champs meltdown... sheesh.

 

I guess that I can see both sides. Why not have a few rules and ideas and benchmarks to do "blow up space cruiser in one shot"? After all, the current Legion really doesn't do that...but the Legion of yesteryear certainly does. And the Authority has that kinda kick-butt power. The more ways one can use Hero AND Champions, the better off it is as a product... sorry, folks, can't take away the business side of me in this equation. The more successful means I get more work. Hee. So, yes, some self interest is there and I'm trying to honestly disclose it.

 

But, an entire evening adventure fighting one Star Cruiser is also valid, like I said. And in Neil's RDU, the way I expect something like that to be handled.

 

And I think both concerns and views on this subject *should* be addressed in this upcoming product. So folks have a clear choice on how to use the product. More importantly, there is the language present to allow gaming groups to discuss among themselves what kind of scifi Supers game that they want. Why only do one or the other?

[Storn]

Getting back to the main thrust of this thread.

 

I wanna see in Galactic Champions ways of doing Aliens, Politics, Supers and all that technological trappings that still keeps being a superhero special.

 

The Legion might be one trick ponies in terms of superpowers, but they are powerful and have a list of powers within that ONE superpower as long as my arm... think how many different ways Lightning Lad or Elemental Lad or even Wildfire have used their power "suite' over the years. I wanna be able to do that too.

 

Like others have said, the equipment de rigeur. The flight belt (flight earrings?...bad idea), the costume that serves as that 10/10 armor (amazing how far synthetic technology has come), complete with total space survivalbility in a skintight. the holographic computer wrist watch... stuff like that.

 

I wanna see the lineage going back to the Champs Universe as presented, but not being beat over the head with it. Not every great concept needs to be updated for the future, but a few choice ones...with some surprises, would be cool.

 

Planet construction and Alien cultures 101 the way comic books do it. Green Latern, Buck Rogers and Burroughs is my guideposts... not science steeped in reality... I want my blue skinned princesses and my weird clone races and Giant space whales!

 

A map of the Champions Galaxy with travel times based on comic book storytelling, not light years. How many panels does it take me, dammit! . Just kidding, but travel times in days for certain tech, travel times in hours for others. Don't give me lightyears, make me check FTL speeds that characters bought or a ship has and have to figure that crap out. Maybe a Gate System ala Cowboy Beebop is the way around a lot of problems.

 

To just touch upon the gritty and to contrast the Legion-like lite of what I envision, an ode to Alien Legion and maybe some examples on how to do that.

 

This isn't a product that my gaming group would use all that much. What I envision is something much wilder, grander, pulpy than what RDU is. But Legion really is what I would aim for... and even in its modern incarnation... its grand. Heck, Legion went from a Rocket Clubhouse to an entire Planet! That's scope.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Storn

Getting back to the main thrust of this thread.

 

I wanna see in Galactic Champions ways of doing Aliens, Politics, Supers and all that technological trappings that still keeps being a superhero special.

 

The Legion might be one trick ponies in terms of superpowers, but they are powerful and have a list of powers within that ONE superpower as long as my arm... think how many different ways Lightning Lad or Elemental Lad or even Wildfire have used their power "suite' over the years. I wanna be able to do that too.

 

Like others have said, the equipment de rigeur. The flight belt (flight earrings?...bad idea), the costume that serves as that 10/10 armor (amazing how far synthetic technology has come), complete with total space survivalbility in a skintight. the holographic computer wrist watch... stuff like that.

 

I wanna see the lineage going back to the Champs Universe as presented, but not being beat over the head with it. Not every great concept needs to be updated for the future, but a few choice ones...with some surprises, would be cool.

 

Planet construction and Alien cultures 101 the way comic books do it. Green Latern, Buck Rogers and Burroughs is my guideposts... not science steeped in reality... I want my blue skinned princesses and my weird clone races and Giant space whales!

 

A map of the Champions Galaxy with travel times based on comic book storytelling, not light years. How many panels does it take me, dammit! . Just kidding, but travel times in days for certain tech, travel times in hours for others. Don't give me lightyears, make me check FTL speeds that characters bought or a ship has and have to figure that crap out. Maybe a Gate System ala Cowboy Beebop is the way around a lot of problems.

 

To just touch upon the gritty and to contrast the Legion-like lite of what I envision, an ode to Alien Legion and maybe some examples on how to do that.

 

This isn't a product that my gaming group would use all that much. What I envision is something much wilder, grander, pulpy than what RDU is. But Legion really is what I would aim for... and even in its modern incarnation... its grand. Heck, Legion went from a Rocket Clubhouse to an entire Planet! That's scope.

Galactic Champions definitely should be a resource for different styles of play. Heck one of my complaints about 5th Ed. is that I think game design is really pushing a fairly narrow style of play considering this is a universal system.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Agent X

Galactic Champions definitely should be a resource for different styles of play. Heck one of my complaints about 5th Ed. is that I think game design is really pushing a fairly narrow style of play considering this is a universal system.

I agree with both you and Storn that both options should be available to the characters. Sometimes you want to play "Save the Princess in the Deathstar" and sometimes you want to play "Blow up the Deathstar before it destroys the planet." Right now we only really have the first option.

 

I agree with you about your second point too. In some regards it seems as though the HERO System is starting to create its own genre just as D&D has created an entire genre of fantasy novels. I'm not too sure how much I like that.