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Panpiper

Can I dodge while waiting for my OIAID to kick in?

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I've got an OIAID limitation on some powers and stats. I'm assuming it takes a phase to kick in. However without the Hero ID powers and stats, my character is a good bit easier to hit and hurt, and she has no attacks worth anything either. Can I spend that phase dodging as opposed to just 'waiting'?

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I don't know. Capt. Marvel has many times been shown to dodge the incoming lightning so that it affects someone else. Like Superman, Black Adam, etc. On the other hand I'm not entirely sure Billy Batson could dodge it.

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15 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I guess though it comes down to sfx a little bit.

 

In this case she is morphing from an extremely talented normal human into a demon. She sprouts wings, a tail, horns, claws, her legs develop backbend hooves, her skin grows scaly. It's not instant, but it 'is' fast and a smooth transition.

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Just now, Panpiper said:

 

In this case she is morphing from an extremely talented normal human into a demon. She sprouts wings, a tail, horns, claws, her legs develop backbend hooves, her skin grows scaly. It's not instant, but it 'is' fast and a smooth transition.

Ok. Yeah in this case I can see her moving and still transitioning into her form. I think in one of the cartoons, Shazam as Billy gets pushed outta the way before the Lightning hit him to transform.

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P. 387:

 

Quote

For this Limitation to be valid, the character must have some difficulty changing forms — the change must take at least a Full Phase, if not longer (during which the character can do nothing else), and/or there must be other difficulties or ways to prevent him from changing identities.


The point being, slapping on an OIAID gives you a lot of points for a very narrow window, in many cases.  (Pretty easy to put 100-150 points as OIAID, giving you an extra 20-30 to use.)  The key may be, how often does the GM expect to have this window?  

 

Look at the other options.

--Perceivable (inobvious to obvious), typically for defenses.  The fact that it's obvious means your hero ID is blatant, so it's full-time.

--Costs END only to activate.  This one's sweet in many ways...but on the 0 END defenses, they go from Persistent to Constant.  They *stop* if you're stunned or KOd.  

--Concentration 1/2 DCV.  Also has the "can't dodge" aspect, and applies all the way through to his next phase.  (I'm talking about the simple form, with a constant or persistent power.)

--Linked.  Who needs a 1/4 limit when you can get 1/2?  Define the baseline power that creates the conversion from normal to hero form (stun-only Damage Negation anyone?) and hang a ton of Links onto it.  Yes, this is seriously rude.

 

Limitations are meant to cause you problems sometimes.  With OIAID, those problems can't happen most of the time...so when that window's there, it kinda has to be a nasty one.

 

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I have learned over the course of nearly 40 years of Hero System, to apply limitations sparingly, and only when they truly fit the character.  Especially in games where a GM is enforcing reasonable power limits, it is not particularly difficult to create effective characters without piling on gratuitous limitations just for the points. In the specific case of this game and this character, that holds true in spades. We are building characters within the guidelines of the ChampionsMush to play in a Wildcards variant. We have 425 points to spend and are building to a rather low limit.

 

In a Wildcards game, jokers are for the most part shunned and shown extreme prejudice. They are ghettoed and impoverished, they do not mix with their betters outside of their ghetto. Walking about as a demon in this world and expecting to get anything done outside of a fight would be virtually impossible. My character will spend a LOT of time in her human form. Other limitations might give more points for less disadvantage, but OIAID is exactly the correct one to apply to this character concept. The first few XP will pull much of the stats currently suffering from the limitation, out of it. As it is right now, if she dodges, she'll likely survive a round in her human form as she transitions.

Lilith Lefey.pdf

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This campaign, the limits are such that most attacks she might be subject to will be around 50ap at OCV 7. If she dodges she'll be at DCV 9 and she can take a hit at that level without her OIAID. OIAID is only a problem when people treat it like free points without consequence and are just using it to go uber by dumping everything into it. If you have a character concept that is appropriate for an OIAID, start by building your talented normal. Build them to be at least minimally able to survive one phase, IE, able to take a standard hit without getting stunned. Then and only then, consider putting remaining points into OIAID.

 

And yea, don't complain. It WILL happen, expect it.

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RAW, I would say "No". The rules say:

For this Limitation to be valid, the character
must have some difficulty changing forms — the
change must take at least a Full Phase, if not
longer (during which the character can do nothing
else)

So, it seems clear to me that it is intended to take time and fully occupy the character.

 

A GM might be lenient and interpret it differently, either across the board or on a case by case basis depending on SFX.

 

Otherwise you could take steps to mitigate your risk before activating the change, or potentially stop-gap the momentary weakness by taking a defensive ability with the Lim "only while transitioning between forms" if it bothered you enough. 

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9 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Ok then going by RAW, I guess the OP can still Dodge but then would have to restart the OIAID.

I'm not sure how you're getting to that conclusion from what's posted here.  I don't see anything that indicates one can cancel the OIAID transformation to Abort.  In fact, "can do nothing else" reads to me that one cannot Abort to do something else mid-transformation. 

It would be a perfectly sensible houserule, but I can't see how it's RAW. 

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18 minutes ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

I'm not sure how you're getting to that conclusion from what's posted here.  I don't see anything that indicates one can cancel the OIAID transformation to Abort.  In fact, "can do nothing else" reads to me that one cannot Abort to do something else mid-transformation. 

It would be a perfectly sensible houserule, but I can't see how it's RAW. 

Simple. In order for you to complete OIAID is a full phase. Abort to Dodge cancels the OIAID and allows the Dodge. 

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Gnome afasik OIAID isn’t considered attack power that in that once started you must complete it and cannot abort. Any from from books but I believe extra time limitation you can voluntarily stop (in the case to abort). Naturally any prep work is gone and must be restarted. The OIAID realizes that she needs to Dodge in the middle of Transforming, fine and she does, she must then restart the process again. Now if OIAID is ruled similar to Attack and thereby cannot Dodge. I’ll concede the point.

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3 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Gnome afasik OIAID isn’t considered attack power that in that once started you must complete it and cannot abort. Any from from books but I believe extra time limitation you can voluntarily stop (in the case to abort). Naturally any prep work is gone and must be restarted. The OIAID realizes that she needs to Dodge in the middle of Transforming, fine and she does, she must then restart the process again. Now if OIAID is ruled similar to Attack and thereby cannot Dodge. I’ll concede the point.

The OIAID transformation is a Full Phase.  You can't Abort if you've already taken your Phase.  "Attack" has nothing to do with it, blowing your actions on anything locks out Abort until next Segment.  I've already cited page numbers for this, see the last thread we were talking about Abort in. 

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