Teleportation trick

[Ockham's Spoon]

I am building an NPC for a low to mid level superhero campaign with the ability to twist space which becomes a short-range teleport.  One of the tricks this character has figured out is how to swap places with someone else, which would be built as a Teleport Usable As Attack linked to a regular Teleport.  So far so good.  I realize that Teleport UAA is a Stop Sign type of power, but since this is an NPC who has no actual attack powers (he can't teleport objects into people or vice-versa), I am not really worried about it being abused.  Now there are a couple potential applications of this power that start to get more complicated, so I am looking for input on how you would handle this. 

 

First, Mr. Twisty swaps places with someone the instant before getting struck in combat, allowing him to have his opponents shoot each other or beat each other up.  This sounds like Reflection to me, but it would need to be usable both at range and in melee.  It would also probably have to be linked to the Teleport UAA/Teleport combo.  That seems workable, if a bit complicated as far as the order of powers being triggered (does the Teleport UAA get triggered when he uses Reflection or does the Reflection and Teleport UAA get triggered when he 'dodges' with Teleport?)  Is there an easier way to handle this?

 

Second, Mr. Twisty is put in an Entangle.  He then swaps places with his attacker, freeing himself and putting his attacker in the Entangle.  This one seems like a tougher nut to crack.  How would you build this?

[Ockham's Spoon]

BTW, the character will not be named Mr. Twisty.  Any name suggestions are welcome too.

[Ninja-Bear]

@Ockham's Spoon, I think you just complicated the power trick. Just swapping with another should do what you want to do is fine.

[dmjalund]

9 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

@Ockham's Spoon, I think you just complicated the power trick. Just swapping with another should do what you want to do is fine.

The only issue is timing.

[Ockham's Spoon]

I had considered for the Entangle case that it wouldn't really be much different from say swapping places with a prison guard, putting the guard in the cell and freeing himself.  But that is more like putting himself on the other side of a Barrier.  Unless the Entangle is Sticky, the RAW would let him get out of the Entangle but not necessarily capture the person he swapped with in the Entangle.  He could use a Power Trick skill roll perhaps, which would balm my conscience, but not really change the RAW.

[Grailknight]

Just buy an Entangle linked in the same method as the Defection/Reflection so that you can only use it after being Entangled.

[Tjack]

For a name have you considered Castle? It refers to the chess move where two pieces switch places.

[Duke Bushido]

48 minutes ago, Tjack said:

For a name have you considered Castle? It refers to the chess move where two pieces switch places.

 

Funny.  I jumped down here to say that when I built this power for a Villain (it was a side effect / Limitation / sfx of his teleport power: he couldn't just poof away; he had to change places with someone), I named him Castle for that very same reason.

 

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

53 minutes ago, Tjack said:

For a name have you considered Castle? It refers to the chess move where two pieces switch places.

And if he uses a gun, his first name could be Frank!

1 hour ago, dmjalund said:

The only issue is timing.

Not sure how. 🤔

[Tjack]

14 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

Funny.  I jumped down here to say that when I built this power for a Villain (it was a side effect / Limitation / sfx of his teleport power: he couldn't just poof away; he had to change places with someone), I named him Castle for that very same reason.

 

 

 

  
   Great minds think alike baby! Great minds!

[Ockham's Spoon]

1 hour ago, Tjack said:

For a name have you considered Castle? It refers to the chess move where two pieces switch places.

 

Excellent name!  You haven't by any chance been watching The Queen's Gambit?

[Ockham's Spoon]

2 hours ago, Grailknight said:

Just buy an Entangle linked in the same method as the Defection/Reflection so that you can only use it after being Entangled.

 

I thought about this, but this is not a vanilla Entangle.  I could add custom Limitations "Must take on limitations of existing Entangle" and "Can't be stronger than existing Entangle" so he duplicate anything from a block of ice or a pair of handcuffs; that is easy.  But to replicate any Entangle we would need Variable SFX and Variable Advantage.  Then if there is an attack associated with the Entangle (say an electric net that not only traps the character but does NND damage as well like a taser), there is a whole separate attack power to purchase.  And maybe the electric net Entangle is an NND but the block of ice Entangle has a DEX Drain and the flaming tire Entangle has a Killing Attack associated with it, all different attack powers.  Now I am suddenly looking at something like a Variable Power Pool.  Since this is an NPC, so points aren't necessarily an issue, but the whole build is becoming unwieldy.

 

Something else I considered would be for him to buy Sticky as a naked Advantage, Usable On Others, Only to trap swapped person in target Entangle.  That seems a little more streamlined, but effectively means taking over another character's power in a rather backdoor manner.

[Duke Bushido]

1 hour ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

 

Excellent name!  You haven't by any chance been watching The Queen's Gambit?

 

I can say, with complete honesty, that I have never even heard of the Queens Gambit.

 

 

[Ockham's Spoon]

The Queen's Gambit is a recent Netflix release about a female chess prodigy.  According to NPR, it is in large part responsible for the recent surge in sales of chess sets (up over 1000% compared to this time last year).  So if you are looking to give someone a game for Christmas, I would go with a Hero Game book or supplement because you will be hard pressed to find a chess set out there.

[Grailknight]

2 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

 

I thought about this, but this is not a vanilla Entangle.  I could add custom Limitations "Must take on limitations of existing Entangle" and "Can't be stronger than existing Entangle" so he duplicate anything from a block of ice or a pair of handcuffs; that is easy.  But to replicate any Entangle we would need Variable SFX and Variable Advantage.  Then if there is an attack associated with the Entangle (say an electric net that not only traps the character but does NND damage as well like a taser), there is a whole separate attack power to purchase.  And maybe the electric net Entangle is an NND but the block of ice Entangle has a DEX Drain and the flaming tire Entangle has a Killing Attack associated with it, all different attack powers.  Now I am suddenly looking at something like a Variable Power Pool.  Since this is an NPC, so points aren't necessarily an issue, but the whole build is becoming unwieldy.

 

Something else I considered would be for him to buy Sticky as a naked Advantage, Usable On Others, Only to trap swapped person in target Entangle.  That seems a little more streamlined, but effectively means taking over another character's power in a rather backdoor manner.

 

Unless you want to go whole hog with the VPP, you're only going to get the basic entangle and you will need VSFX to make it work right, it. 

[dmjalund]

5 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Not sure how. 🤔

you'd need to be able to perform the teleport between when your attacker starts his action to attack you, and when that attack occurs

[Tjack]

12 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

The Queen's Gambit is a recent Netflix release about a female chess prodigy.  According to NPR, it is in large part responsible for the recent surge in sales of chess sets (up over 1000% compared to this time last year).  So if you are looking to give someone a game for Christmas, I would go with a Hero Game book or supplement because you will be hard pressed to find a chess set out there.

     I’m familiar with the show from the trailer but I haven’t watched it yet. I play chess (badly) against the computer as I think a lot of people do now due to quarantine. We do have a dressy glass chessboard here in the house, but it’s really just a decoration for the dining room table.

[Hey I Can Chan]

 

8 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

I am building an NPC for a low to mid level superhero campaign with the ability to twist space which becomes a short-range teleport.  One of the tricks this character has figured out is how to swap places with someone else, which would be built as a Teleport Usable As Attack linked to a regular Teleport.  So far so good.…

 

First, Mr. Twisty swaps places with someone the instant before getting struck in combat, allowing him to have his opponents shoot each other or beat each other up.  This sounds like Reflection to me, but it would need to be usable both at range and in melee.  It would also probably have to be linked to the Teleport UAA/Teleport combo.  That seems workable, if a bit complicated as far as the order of powers being triggered (does the Teleport UAA get triggered when he uses Reflection or does the Reflection and Teleport UAA get triggered when he 'dodges' with Teleport?)  Is there an easier way to handle this?

 

Second, Mr. Twisty is put in an Entangle.  He then swaps places with his attacker, freeing himself and putting his attacker in the Entangle.  This one seems like a tougher nut to crack.  How would you build this?

 

First, is using the Power Reflection overtuning for the desired effect? I mean, Mr. Twisty (or Castle or Swap or Twisted Sister or whatever) can just Hold an Action. Then, when he's targeted by the opponent's attack, he can try to use the swap places power in response to his opponent's attack. To act before his opponent Mr. Twisty's still gotta beat his own DEX Roll by more than his opponent beats the opponent's own DEX Roll (as per E62 20), so there's a chance he'll get zapped then teleport—so embarrassing!—, but a few Levels with DEX Rolls (maybe with the Limitation that they're specific to this situation) should almost guarantee success. Alternatively, since Mr. Twisty's an NPC anyway, the GM could rule that Mr. Twisty's swap places power is a defensive action (as per 21) so no matter how Mr. Twisty Aborts to it (whether by Aborting a Held Phase or his next Phase), the swap places power always activates before his opponent's announced attack; this new GM would hesitate to do that, though, since the swap will likely require an attack roll, but more experienced GMs' opinions may differ.

 

Second, I think there are just too many questions that need to be answered about the Entangle Power on Mr. Twisty before Mr. Twisty can use the Now You're Trapped Power. Because an Entangle can be defined as sealing the victim in a block of ice, handcuffing the victim, putting the victim in an actual small steel cage, or securing the victim within an emerald energy octahedron, the Now You're Trapped Power, according to its special effect, just couldn't work on a big foe, a little foe, a big foe, or a big foe, respectively. In other words, both the Entangle's special effect and the victim have to cooperate to allow Mr. Twisty's Now You're Trapped Power to work at all. That's a lot of juggling for a narrow effect.

 

Alternatively, the Now You're Trapped Power could have its own unique Trigger that sees it pulled whenever Mr. Twisty uses the Swap Places Power when he's Entangled. Then the Now You're Trapped Power is itself an Entangle that creates (likely a weaker version of) a new Entangle on the victim like the one Mr. Twisty just left. That's complicated, tough to model, and expensive. Really, I tried to model it and even a weak entangle was working about to 70 or so Active Points. I'd recommend Mr. Twisty content himself with the block of ice collapsing in on itself, the handcuffs clattering noisily to the floor, or the craven hunter or the emerald enforcer being confused by his sudden disappearance.

 

(So you know, even if Mr. Twisty didn't have the Now You're Trapped Power, out of combat, I'd allow Mr. Twisty, with a successful Power Skill roll, to use the Swap Places Power against a victim so that now the victim is in the handcuffs, the small cage, or the octahedron instead of him because that's awesome and in keeping with his power's special effect, but I wouldn't let Mr. Twisty swap a victim into a block of ice as I imagine the block is form-fitting; I could probably be persuaded, though, were the victim pretty close to Mr. Twisty's size.)

 

 

 

 

 

[massey]

I wouldn't worry about the linked Entangle.  It's going to come up so rarely that it shouldn't matter, and it's also special effect dependent.  If Batman throws his batline around you and ties you up, when you teleport away it should just fall to the ground.  Even if you switch places with somebody, they probably aren't positioned in exactly the same way that you are.  They probably don't have the exact same body measurements either.  Why would the batline magically resize itself and reposition so that the other guy is tied up?

 

On the other hand, if Mr Freeze shoots you with an ice beam and now there's a 10 foot thick chunk of ice surrounding you, it makes more visual sense for you to switch places with somebody and now they're stuck too.  Logically the exact same problem exists as with the batline, but it still seems comic-booky to me to be able to swap places and leave somebody trapped in the ice prison.

 

So I wouldn't worry about the Entangle.  You can't use it on your own, you have to wait until somebody else Entangles you first.  Though I do think you need to purchase Indirect on the Teleport Usable As Attack.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Good points on the Entangle.  SFX-wise there are just a number of Entangles that it doesn't really make sense for the swap to work, so it might be best to leave this as a Power Trick Skill roll for the limited number of cases it might work with.  Trying to model it otherwise is more trouble than it is worth.

 

Now I am going to sound wishy-washy by taking the opposite tack with the Reflection power, but this one is likely to see more a lot more use so I can't afford to hand-wave it.  I agree with Can Chan that swapping places doesn't *necessarily* need to be modeled with Reflection; if Mr. Castle has a held action or higher DEX he could swap places at the last instant with a successful attack roll on the target he is swapping with.  But then the shooter might hold his fire when he sees the swap happen.  If that shooter is a PC, they are going to say "No way would I shoot my buddy!  I wouldn't pull the trigger after I see Mr. Castle disappear!"

 

For an analogous situation, supposed I have a martial artist who is fighting Thug 1 when Thug 2 prepares to shoot him.  The martial artist dodges out of the way and Thug 2 shoots Thug 1.  Cinematically, that is great, but how do you model that in game mechanics to keep it balanced?  The obvious way to do it is with Reflection with some custom limitations (can't Reflect to attacker, attacker and target must be in a straight line, etc); the SFX is just that the martial artist dodges instead of literally reflecting the attack into a new target.  Now I could come up with some house rules to pull this off without Reflection, but Reflection gives me a concrete way to manage it.  Granted it is more expensive for the character point-wise, but it is also more likely to work as envisioned.  Also, when a PC sees Mr. Castle pull this trick, they will want to know if they could do something similar, and the response is, "Sure, just buy Reflection".