2021-2022 NFL Thread

[archer]

7 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

The bigger question with Flutie was pure and simple:  size.  "Too short!"
 

 

Yeah, but he was too short for ANY team to "risk" a 9th round draft pick on? Or a 10th?

[unclevlad]

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OK...what we forget is that Flutie had signed with the USFL, months before the NFL draft.  4 year deal.  

Also, his quality years were in the CFL, not the NFL.  He had a year-plus run with Buffalo...10 games in 98, 15 in 99...17-8 in that period.  Then Ralph Wilson forced the coaching staff to downgrade him, in favor of Ron Johnson (blank stares WRT that name are entirely appropriate, yes) DESPITE the fact that Flutie went 4-1 as a starter when Johnson was hurt (he went 4-7).  BUT:  a major factor was probably age.  Flutie was 37 in '99.  

But outside of that, Flutie was not very good.  Good enough to hang around, but 21-20 if you take out '98 and '99.  And that tells you a lot right there:  41 games started in 10 NFL seasons (25 in the 2 good years in Buffalo).  Passing yards per game was 160...and, sure, this wasn't the super-pass-happy offensive showcase of today, but Flutie was 15th in 1998 (at 208 y/g).

 

So he overachieved for a very late-round pick...starting 60 games is nothing to sneeze at.  But looking at the numbers?  Journeyman in the NFL, at most.

[Pariah]

“If Alex [Smith] wants to get into coaching, I’ve got first dibs.”
—Kansas City coach Andy Reid

[Pariah]

An experienced NFL quarterback who started 15 games last season, in exchange for a sixth-round draft pick? Seems like a pretty good deal.

 

Broncos agree to trade for QB Teddy Bridgewater

 

I won't go so far as to say that the quarterback situation in Denver is finally fixed, but I feel like this is an improvement. And if not (which is always a possibility with this franchise of late), the cost isn't prohibitive.

[unclevlad]

Better than what they have, but that's damnation by faint praise.  His QBR last year was dead middle...17th of the 33 shown on ESPN's stats page.  (Miami had 2 QBs listed, Fitz and Tua.)  And, as you say, for only a 6th round pick.  From the Panthers' perspective:  looking at his contract, this trade voided the 3rd and last year of his contract with them.  His 2021 salary's $3M...his 2022 salary was gonna be *$20M*.  Carolina converted a lot of it into bonuses, but Bridgewater's UFA after THIS season.  And of course, the Panthers are betting that Sam Darnold has talent that the Jets were squandering.  That means you don't want Bridgewater's $20M a year contract to be a backup, nor do you want a QB competition.
 

So Bridgewater can walk, easily, and only has a year to show he really does belong.  On that basis, the 6th round pick makes a lot more sense.  Denver had a lot more leverage here.

[Old Man]

Wow, I thought for sure Denver would wait to do that until after the draft.  There's still a decent chance Lance or Fields might fall to them.

[archer]

2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Better than what they have, but that's damnation by faint praise.  His QBR last year was dead middle...17th of the 33 shown on ESPN's stats page.  (Miami had 2 QBs listed, Fitz and Tua.)  And, as you say, for only a 6th round pick.  From the Panthers' perspective:  looking at his contract, this trade voided the 3rd and last year of his contract with them.  His 2021 salary's $3M...his 2022 salary was gonna be *$20M*.  Carolina converted a lot of it into bonuses, but Bridgewater's UFA after THIS season.  And of course, the Panthers are betting that Sam Darnold has talent that the Jets were squandering.  That means you don't want Bridgewater's $20M a year contract to be a backup, nor do you want a QB competition.
 

So Bridgewater can walk, easily, and only has a year to show he really does belong.  On that basis, the 6th round pick makes a lot more sense.  Denver had a lot more leverage here.

 

Well, dead middle of the pack was a heck of a lot better than what Denver had so....

 

Anyway, the cost of the trade was minimal to get a serviceable QB. 

 

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

Wow, I thought for sure Denver would wait to do that until after the draft.  There's still a decent chance Lance or Fields might fall to them.

 

Yeah but do you really want your best or only option to be to throw a rookie QB into the meatgrinder in the first game of the season?

 

Carolina was looking to get rid of the guy. But there was a decent chance that any team looking to package a trade to Carolina might hope to get Bridgewater as a throw-in to sweeten the deal.

 

Better to get him on your roster at a minimal cost now than to lose out and have to try to get someone worse at a higher cost when other teams know you're more desperate after a draft that didn't snag you a franchise QB.

 

2 cents

 

edit:

This article from a week ago talking about a possible Bridgewater trade to Denver speculated that Denver would have to give up this year's 4th round pick to get him. In comparison, a 6th round pick looks like a steal.

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/three_broncos_trade_scenarios_for_the_2021_nfl_draft/s1_12680_34702928

[unclevlad]

Yeah, I agree;  Bridgewater's at least as good an option as ANY QB draft pick.  They've got a reasonable QB competition going now, and that #9 pick can be used to address other needs...including, now, trading down to get, let's say, a later #1 and a #3.  Granted that Denver's QB situation was miserable, but as archer said, middle of the pack is a good upgrade there.  Being poor enough to get the ninth pick says, you had many other problems.  

 

Not saying they won't mess up if they trade down, mind, but that would be the screw-up...making stupid picks...not trading down, or passing on a QB at 9 for something else.  And hey, Elway's not running this draft.  And Paton scored this trade, which was good for both teams, so maybe he'll prove competent.  We know Elway was seriously lacking....

[Cancer]

Quote

If the Seahawks make their pick at 2.56 I'll post a video of me eating a stick of butter

 

Everyone is expecting them to trade that for 2 picks, probably 5th and 6th rounders.

[archer]

18 minutes ago, Cancer said:

 

Everyone is expecting them to trade that for 2 picks, probably 5th and 6th rounders.

 

"Magic beans! Magic beans for trade! Come get your magic beans! Guaranteed results! All trades are final!"

[Pariah]

I was reading some speculation earlier today that the Donkeys might still choose a quarterback at #9 if one falls to them, and then send Drew Lock to somebody like New England in exchange for some more draft picks.

[archer]

1 hour ago, Pariah said:

I was reading some speculation earlier today that the Donkeys might still choose a quarterback at #9 if one falls to them, and then send Drew Lock to somebody like New England in exchange for some more draft picks.

 

Maybe they could get a 6th round pick in exchange for lock.

 

"The circle is now complete." - Head Coach Vader

[Cancer]

A point that has been made as well is that this year's draft pool is shallow due to COVID.  Trading out of this draft (and into next year's if you can) has a certain up side to it if you are not in desperate need of young fresh meat.

[Pariah]

I just read an article pointing out that the Chicago Bears, who are in pretty desperate need of a quarterback themselves, could have quadrupled Denver's offer because they have four 6th-round draft picks this year.

[unclevlad]

18 hours ago, Cancer said:

A point that has been made as well is that this year's draft pool is shallow due to COVID.  Trading out of this draft (and into next year's if you can) has a certain up side to it if you are not in desperate need of young fresh meat.

 

I'm not sure "shallow" is quite the right term.  Uncertain or unproven, that I'd buy.  I'd also say that trading down makes sense, to get more picks even if they are in this draft.  Because uncertainty cuts both ways:  there's going to be a lot of very good talent that hasn't been spotted/vetted adequately.

 

I note the first round is scheduled for 3 1/2 hours tonight.  Really, who can sit through 3 1/2 hours of that stuff?  OK, my pontification tolerance is near zero, but still....  Or maybe I just want to save my eyes from the fashion capital crimes that will be perpetrated....

[archer]

Tim Tebow attempting NFL comeback with the Jaguars...as a TE. No kidding.

 

The Jags head coach was Tebow's head coach in college.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/04/29/tim-tebow-attempting-stunning-nfl-comeback-as-tight-end/

[unclevlad]

Why does anyone think Tim Tebow is relevant?  Or has ever been relevant since he left Florida?  

DOH.  Heisman winner over-hype...it's a thing.  

 

I don't wish him ill at all, but trying to learn TE at 33?  Doesn't have the size to be a blocking tight end, doesn't have the speed to be a receiver-centric one, you'd think.  Eh...whatever.  It's just a tryout.

[archer]

45 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

Why does anyone think Tim Tebow is relevant?  Or has ever been relevant since he left Florida?  

DOH.  Heisman winner over-hype...it's a thing.  

 

I don't wish him ill at all, but trying to learn TE at 33?  Doesn't have the size to be a blocking tight end, doesn't have the speed to be a receiver-centric one, you'd think.  Eh...whatever.  It's just a tryout.

 

Honestly the Jags could use any kind of hype that they can get. 

 

If it takes flirting with the idea of bringing back Tebow, good for them in the hype department.

 

I have no idea why they'd think that TE would be a good fit for him. AFAIK, he hasn't played TE since high school.

 

As for is size, he's 6' 3" and weighs 245. In contrast, Jason Witten was 6' 6" and his playing weight was 263. But then he wouldn't be competing with Jason Witten for the job.  

 

The Jags depth chart (in order) shows he'd be competing with

 

Tyler Eifert is 6' 5" and 250.

Chris Manhertz is 6' 6" and 255

Tyler Davis is 6' 4" and 243

Ben Ellefson is 6' 3" and 249

James O'Shaughnessy is 6' 4" and 245

 

 

[Old Man]

There are strong rumors that Aaron Rodgers might be traded. 

[archer]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

There are strong rumors that Aaron Rodgers might be traded. 

 

He wants to be traded. The mind boggles at what he'd be worth in a fair trade.

 

The question is whether he'll attempt to force a trade by threatening to retire rather than play. If that's the case, it's less likely to be a fair trade and GB will just be forced to accept getting something rather than nothing.

[Old Man]

28 minutes ago, archer said:

 

He wants to be traded. The mind boggles at what he'd be worth in a fair trade.

 

The question is whether he'll attempt to force a trade by threatening to retire rather than play. If that's the case, it's less likely to be a fair trade and GB will just be forced to accept getting something rather than nothing.

Supposedly Green Bay turned down an offer from SF to give them this year’s #3 overall, additional picks, and Garoppolo for Rodgers. If so I think GB ought to have taken the deal. 
 

Meanwhile, while we wait for the draft to start, I’m going to go ahead and give the Raiders a D for this year’s draft. Just to get it out of the way. 

[Pariah]

Funny, the #2 and #7 picks both went to high school in Utah.

[unclevlad]

Clearly the Niners have given up on Jimmy G. because they took Trey Lance...which is a bloody big leap of faith.  Lance opted out of playing for NoDakState this spring, so he's only got a single year (2019) in college...and that was FCS.  OK, ESPN gives him an overall rank of 9th (and 3rd best QB), so taking him at #3 isn't a major stretch, but the track record just isn't there.  Even in 2019, he only averaged about 18 attempts per game.  They're aiming for the next Jackson or Mahomes, that's obvious;  Lance ran for 1100 yards....but we'll see.  That DOESN'T work out a LOT.

 

EDIT:  just read the details about the trade for the #3 pick, where John Lynch is saying Jimmy's the QB for 2021.  After this cost them their 22 and 23 first round picks????  You're gonna sit Lance, at that price, for the next 2 years while Jimmy plays out his contract???  

[Old Man]

Haven’t we all given up on Jimmy G?  
 

Denver goes with Patrick Surtain and the (lack of) fan reaction is priceless.  

[Pariah]

2 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Denver goes with Patrick Surtain and the fan reaction is priceless.

 

I think it's a good pick. I figured they would go defense in the first round, and he's a solid player. There's a part of me that's a little surprised they didn't trade out of the pick, but I'm okay with what they did.