Powerhouse 4th ed Villain

[Ninja-Bear]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:21 AM, Lord Liaden said:

Origin-wise, he's another random guy who gained powers from a VIPER experiment and then left VIPER to work solo. The pre-5E villains who follow that path are legion. 

But can you hold that against him? You have been around since 3rd? And have a lot of the old enemies books I presume? If you look at him as presented in 4th as is and without any other sources then its not so bad. I would change his background slightly so he can work for VIPER easily. Perhaps he was created by  a Cyberline reaction? 

[Lord Liaden]

Hey, you asked why I didn't find Powerhouse compelling. Of course you can change or interpret him any way you want, if that would make him fun for you to use. For my part, I don't consider him worth the effort. I have plenty of villains with better built-in hooks to choose from. But it's your game, not mine.

 

(Oh, and I've been around since 2nd. I have nearly everything published for Champions. And IMHO even by the standards of pre-4E, Powerhouse is nothing to write home about.)

[steriaca]

9 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

(Oh, and I've been around since 2nd. I have nearly everything published for Champions. And IMHO even by the standards of pre-4E, Powerhouse is nothing to write home about.)

Well, that is why I went, in my mind, the Kelvarite route. In fact, he was either there or a few moments later during Tachyan and Thunderbolt's orgims (Champions Villains Volume 3 pages 261-263 and 299-301). It would explain Powerhouse's ability to fly and brick level strength (both standard operating procedure of someone who has a shard of Kelvarite in them...a movement power and high strength).

[Ninja-Bear]

On 10/30/2022 at 4:37 PM, Lord Liaden said:

Hey, you asked why I didn't find Powerhouse compelling. Of course you can change or interpret him any way you want, if that would make him fun for you to use. For my part, I don't consider him worth the effort. I have plenty of villains with better built-in hooks to choose from. But it's your game, not mine.

 

(Oh, and I've been around since 2nd. I have nearly everything published for Champions. And IMHO even by the standards of pre-4E, Powerhouse is nothing to write home about.)

Thanks again for your opinion! 

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think Powerhouse is a replacement for Bulldozer, but he's a lot more powerful.  Bulldozer was a street-level bad guy that would be easy to trash and make fun of.

[Lord Liaden]

Powerhouse is a point of Speed faster and 5 Strength stronger, and has a few more combat tricks; but Bulldozer is a lot more durable. Like a roach, he's hard to squash.

[Ninja-Bear]

Powerhouse versus Bulldozer! Sounds like a fun battle to run.

 

I’m with LL though that those two seem very similar in personality. I don’t know if I would use them in the same game.

[Christopher R Taylor]

That's where the interesting and fun part comes with writing: making the characters distinct.  I see Bulldozer as a mean womanizer and sexist, but Powerhouse is just a bully and though guy thug hired by people to do heavy work.

[Ninja-Bear]

51 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

That's where the interesting and fun part comes with writing: making the characters distinct.  I see Bulldozer as a mean womanizer and sexist, but Powerhouse is just a bully and though guy thug hired by people to do heavy work.

That’s good! 

[Ninja-Bear]

But isn’t being strong and a bully cliche? I can see Powerhouse being super competitive! 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

 

But isn’t being strong and a bully cliche? I can see Powerhouse being super competitive! 

 

 

Good one, that's what I did with Guns McGee in Champions Begins; the kind of bad guy who always is trying to best everyone: can you lift this?  how many pullups can you do?  How high can you jump, I bet I'm better!

[Ninja-Bear]

I also see him being less about the greed of football and more about the glory of football. Just wondering why he would still work with Viper.

[steriaca]

On 11/2/2022 at 6:45 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

I also see him being less about the greed of football and more about the glory of football. Just wondering why he would still work with Viper.

"You know that shard of Kelvarite which is slowly creeping into your brain, killing you? We at VIPER can make sure that piece doesn't creep further and kill you. Just sign on the bottom line big guy and you'll live a long life. Everyone deserves a long life, right?"

[Tech]

On 11/2/2022 at 6:45 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

I also see him being less about the greed of football and more about the glory of football. Just wondering why he would still work with Viper.

 They offer him the 'promise' of money and being able to push superheroes around.... until reality kicks in.

[Duke Bushido]

4 hours ago, steriaca said:

"You know that shard of Kelvarite which is slowly creeping into your brain, killing you? We at VIPER can make sure that piece doesn't creep further and kill you. Just sign on the bottom line big guy and you'll live a long life. Everyone deserves a long life, right?"

 

4 hours ago, Tech said:

 They offer him the 'promise' of money and being able to push superheroes around.... until reality kicks in.

 

 

I think a combination of the two, personally.

 

But I find things a but more believable when they are just a little but complicated-- not soap-ooera complicated, but just enough layers of motivation to sell the situation.

[Ninja-Bear]

9 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

 

I think a combination of the two, personally.

 

But I find things a but more believable when they are just a little but complicated-- not soap-ooera complicated, but just enough layers of motivation to sell the situation.

I don’t mind a little complication myself but (and I should find a good example) I also don’t need three pages of background for the villain either. Trying to find a good middle ground.

[Duke Bushido]

I was quite serious:

 

While he may not 100 percent believe that onky VIPER can keep him alive, he acceots that it is _possibly_ true, particularly as often as he hears it,

.and they _do_ provide hun lots of opportunities to use his powers and demonstrate hiw awesome he is by downing famous heroes, so there is that....

 

Do there is no real reason I favir of leaving, so why take the chance that they are taking him the truth.

 

 

 

Perhaps "complicated" was a poor word:

 

I find it more believable when there is both a push and a pull.

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

5 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

I was quite serious:

 

While he may not 100 percent believe that onky VIPER can keep him alive, he acceots that it is _possibly_ true, particularly as often as he hears it,

.and they _do_ provide hun lots of opportunities to use his powers and demonstrate hiw awesome he is by downing famous heroes, so there is that....

 

Do there is no real reason I favir of leaving, so why take the chance that they are taking him the truth.

 

 

 

Perhaps "complicated" was a poor word:

 

I find it more believable when there is both a push and a pull.

 

 

Sorry, never thought that you weren’t serious.

[Duke Bushido]

Thanks, but briefly: that was another poorly-chosen opener;  I wanted to pull focus away from soap-opera level complicated and toward a mini "workshop" of sorts,  I shouod have gone with "more soecifically" or something, but I went with the first thing autocorewct spelled properly.

 

 

 

[Sketchpad]

On the subject of Viper creating and using villains, I always used the created villains as former experiments gone awry. Sure Viper made them, but now they're loose on the city/world, hunted by the authorities, Viper, and your heroes. Some have chosen to go back to the organization that made them, while others rage against their former masters and battle them as much as they do heroes. 

[Lord Liaden]

That's a valid interpretation, except it happened so often in the old Champs books, it severely strained VIPER's credibility. At least the current official setting spreads the potential creators of rogue supervillains around to multiple agencies and masterminds, so no one of them looks completely incompetent.

[Ninja-Bear]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

That's a valid interpretation, except it happened so often in the old Champs books, it severely strained VIPER's credibility. At least the current official setting spreads the potential creators of rogue supervillains around to multiple agencies and masterminds, so no one of them looks completely incompetent.

Like I said too that this is also based on two things.

 

1) How many books do you have? In this case if you only stick to the BBB then Viper creating villains (and Heroes) isn’t so bad. If I remember from the Enemies books, Death Commando was created by KRONOS and Orb by UNTIL everyone else by VIPER. So if you bought Classic Enemies then you’re back to mainly VIPER creating villains.
 

2) Because a villain is in a book, does that mean that its in the campaign? I equate this to D&D. Forgotten Realms gladly includes any monster mentioned in the monster manuals however you don’t have to for your particular game. And you can believe that back in the day, I thought that it did and I couldn’t change anything because it was official! I’ve bought down that psyche disadvantage since then. 😁

 

Here’s a thought if one plays up the semi-independent nature of the nests then having VIPER creating a bunch of villains I don’t think is so bad.  Nest A created Crusader because they wanted an agent in the ranks of the FBI while Nest B is more in science and created Powerhouse while Nest C ran across the info to blackmail Bluejay. 

[Lord Liaden]

Like I said, you can interpret these characters however would be most fun for you. But we do seem to be going to considerable lengths to justify one minor villain who's basically a thug.

 

Besides, what kind of Herophile sticks to just the BBB? Nobody on these forums, I'm betting.

[steriaca]

Yes, Powerhouse is basically a thug. But even a thug has a mother ( he wouldn't be here otherwise).

 

Yes, VIPER being responsible for 75% of all supervillains in the campaign is rather stupid. If they could create supervillains at will, why have normal agents? Instead, I would like to think of VIPER as opportunist minded guys. They didn't create Powerhouse. The accident did. They were there to simply persuade him to work for VIPER. They are always on the lookout for young mutants with power problems (Power Crusher for example), bad seed types who just want an easy pay day, mercenary types who feel the need to have a permanent backing group, etc.

[Ninja-Bear]

@Lord Liadenyou know who stays with just the BBB? Poor ones. 😜