MLB 2023

[slikmar]

From what I read, it involves a 17 year old girl, problem being, unlike US, minor is under 18. Have to be careful with headlines, as those make it sound like multiple girls who are much younger. Curious to see what happens. Not like Wander is that much older at 22.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

They are keeping very tightlipped on details, presumably for the sake of the minors involved. But it'll all be out there eventually. 

[unclevlad]

3 hours ago, slikmar said:

From what I read, it involves a 17 year old girl, problem being, unlike US, minor is under 18. Have to be careful with headlines, as those make it sound like multiple girls who are much younger. Curious to see what happens. Not like Wander is that much older at 22.

 

 

But DR law is rigid here.  There are no exceptions, so as you say, therein lies the rub...and why I'm basically only commenting on the procedural elements.  

 

Plus...Kobe Bryant.  The Duke lacrosse team.  Both cases eventually dropped because, IIRC, the accuser was deemed unreliable.  

[unclevlad]

It's possible Adam Wainwright's starting career MIGHT be over now.

 

"Encouraging" in a start last week vs. the Mets after two awful outings before that.  Had that gone poorly, the Cards were considering making the change.

 

Unfortunately tonight?  4 2/3, 6 runs.  Started superbly;  retired the first 9.  Gave up a run on a walk, runner advance, 2 out single.  5th, tho, the roof caved in.  Fly out, single, infield single, bunt single, ground out to first (1 run scored), double scoring 2, 2 run homer to knock him out.

 

Cards aren't technically eliminated yet, but if they can't come back tonight, and it's 6-2 Pirates after 6, it's their 72nd loss.  Maybe you get in with 85 wins, in the NL?  But that means they'd have to go 30-5 the rest of the way...to MAYBE get into the mix.  Time to move on.  They've tried hard to help him reach 200 wins;  he's at 198.  But he's had 9 starts since June 17th.  He's lost 7, and probably this'll be #8.  This is the 6th game he couldn't complete 5 innings.

 

He even got off to a decent start...for a #4 starter.  Nothiing better than that.  But it's gone now.  

 

Some of the MLB Network guys have said the Cards really, seriously miss Yadier Molina.  I was kinda thinking Wainwright would also retire last year, given how tied at the hip those two were.  Now I wish he had.  It's sad to see THIS much of a drop-off.  Hall of Fame?  Maybe, maybe not, but certainly at least worthy of consideration.  4 times, top 3 in the Cy Young.  Forgetting this year, 195-117 career record.  Win totals mean less now, but that kinda winning percentage is very much meaningful in my book.

[Pariah]

White Sox to Nashville? Preposterous ... but possible. Maybe.

 

White Sox owner considering moving team out of Chicago: report

 

[unclevlad]

57 minutes ago, Pariah said:

White Sox to Nashville? Preposterous ... but possible. Maybe.

 

White Sox owner considering moving team out of Chicago: report

 

 

My first reaction to any story like this is...let's put the squeeze on the city/location we're in, to get more concessions from them.

 

And in that story, I see where, AFAIK, the first axes fell today.  White Sox fire their GM and exec VP.  Happens when your team had Expectations...and sits below .400 right now.  Neck and neck with the Rockies for the 3rd worst record...or, another way to look at it, worst record among clubs trying.  (We know the story with the A's, and I've seen a few HIGHLY critical stories about how the Royals have run things recently.)

[unclevlad]

It never ends for the Angels.

 

Ohtani only throws 26 pitches before getting pulled with arm soreness.  Of course, he hits #44 first....  It was pointed out that his workload's been high, due to the WBC.  He wasn't pitching at spring training levels.  Yeah, he's been *great* as a pitcher this year...but the question of whether he can sustain doing both is still up in the air.  OR, whichever club he plays with next year, will have to do some pretty serious load management.

 

And after playing just 1 game, Trout misses BOTH ends of the double header today;  the Monday game was postponed with all the rain/flooding to today, to give everyone a solid couple of days to do cleanup.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Shohei Ohtani will not pitch again this season due to a torn ulnar collateral ligament. Fellow star Mike Trout also will be heading back to the injured list.

[Pariah]

Cron and Grichuk have flopped since leaving Colorado for Anaheim. Now Trout and Ohtani are injured. And the Angels, as of this morning, are four spots and 10½ games out of the final AL Wild Card spot.

 

Turn out the lights, kiddos. This party's over. 

[unclevlad]

Which means it's #2.

 

This could easily mean the end of the Ohtani Experiment.  No, you *can't* pitch and hit full time, not as a starter.  It also creates serious uncertainty about what his next contract could look like.  

 

And Trout going RIGHT back...is it just me, or do y'all also start questioning the competence of the Angels' training and medical staffs?

 

This team needs to be blown up.  The organization's approach has failed.  

[Starlord]

In the same game Ohtani blew out his elbow, Elle De La Cruz knocked in 3 RBIs hitting from the left and 3 RBIs hitting from the right.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Starlord

[slikmar]

Actually, i would say Ohtani can do both, but he needs to be forced to take days off. they showed a stat last night, he has missed 2 games this season. As for Trout, it was about him, not the staff. He said the pain was manageble, but turned out it wasn't once he really hit.

 

Team will be blown up. Most the guys they traded for are free agents - Moustakis, Grichuk, Cron, Escobar, Giolito, Leone, Lopez added too Renfroe. It will be about their young players going forward, which is why they drafted college guys a lot, so they were closer to MLB ready.

[unclevlad]

Now, see, that's where a failing has been, from what I've heard.  They've drafted "MLB ready" for quite a while.  It hasn't worked.  They get middle of the pack ballplayers.  Their farm system might have "MLB ready"...but they're also consistently ranked low.  The Angels' approach has been to try for the quick fix.  It's failed miserably.

 

Occasional rest won't do enough to alleviate what's causing ligament tears, most likely.  As for Trout...it's not just this injury.  Are they overly deferring to him...out of desperation?  Maybe.  But it's ongoing.  He's missed 40 or more games 5 times in the last 7 years.  

 

I also don't mean just the free agents.  This team will not win with Trout and Ohtani, because neither can be trusted to play enough moving forward.  I question, admittedly from afar, whether the team's mentality is that one of them will bail them out.  It doesn't work that way.  I look at the Reds...to a point, the D'backs.  The Rays.  The Orioles.  Scrappy.  Hungry.  The Angels?  No.  5th most strikeouts.  4th fewest stolen bases.  3rd in home runs, but 10th in RBI.  Passive and ineffective.

 

EDIT:  FanGraphs has now given the Angels no chance to make the playoffs.  0.0%.  They need to make a miracle run (26-8 to get to 87 wins), AND have 2 of the 4 teams (Royals, Rangers, Blue Jays, Mariners) play under .500, as they're on pace for 90.

 

Oh...and the A's are a Seattle win or A's loss away from mathematical elimination.  A's have 91 losses.  4 teams have 72 wins already, and someone will come out of the Central.  That's 5.  Seattle has 71 wins.  

 

[unclevlad]

From WaPo...stunned me at first but...

 

Stephen Strasburg is going to retire.  As I say, whoa...right?  Except I think of him as a lot younger than he is, because, you know, we just haven't heard much about him...so he hasn't been around that long.

 

Well, not on an active roster.  GREAT 2019...but a grand total of 30 innings since.  He had thoracic outlet surgery that removed a couple ribs...never recovered.  The info on why is noting a rare medical condition that may have contributed to the problem.

 

It's stunning to read that he was drafted in 2009!  247 career starts.  Some of it is geographic.  His best years were 2012, then 14-19.  IIRC, there were fewer games on MLB Network, Fox/FS1, and TBS.  Maybe a couple more a week on ESPN.  The Nats were on MASN;  I think I got MASN for a while, but the RSNs really shrank their distribution areas at some point in there.  

Ohhh...Nats make me sweat but hold on to beat the Yankees.  Yippee kiyay!  And...oh my.  I was ANNOYED earlier because the Red Sox-Astros game was blacked out.  HATE that.  Oh well.  Red Sox 17-1.  11 runs after 3 innings.  No loss missing that, then.

 

NOTE:  Bob Costas is on MLB Tonight, talking about Strasburg.  He's saying nerve damage.  Tingling in the hand.  Said, he can't trust picking up his daughter...can't trust his hand.  So rather serious impediment.

[slikmar]

5 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Well, not on an active roster.  GREAT 2019...but a grand total of 30 innings since.  He had thoracic outlet surgery that removed a couple ribs...never recovered.  The info on why is noting a rare medical condition that may have contributed to the problem.

Jerrod Walsh of the Angels had that surgery last year, also suffering from some type of nerve problem that gave him migraines and dizziness, wonder if there is a link. He seemed to have recovered and was hitting 300 in minors and looked great in spring training, but when got to MLB with Angels, hit under 200 and his defense, which had been GG level, was awful, to the point that they DFA'd him. This was another player the Angels thought was going to be a big part of their run this year (he was an all-star in 2021).

As bad as it turned out, the worst thing is that for some reason players took big steps back this year - Walsh as mentioned, Ward had a bad first half and just as he seemed to really be getting going, the 95+ fastball to face to end season with orbital fracture so who knows what will happen next year. Trout injuries continued, as unclevlad mentioned. Rendon finally seemed like was going to play, but like every year except the short one, he couldn't stay on field and when he was looked bad at plate and on defense (we shouldn't have signed him, but he seemed one of the sure bets as he had been one of the most consistent players for the previous 5 years in games played AND ability). the above is what caused them to need to trade for Moustakis (been great for us), Cron and Grichuk (who have both been less then good). They signed Hunter Renfroe who seemingly had a good career and decent numbers and beginning of year seemed good but I begin to see why he can't seem to stay with teams - He seemingly cannot hit with risp, to the point the Reds walked (not intentionally, but still) the rookie Moniak to load the bases in front of him yesterday.

They signed Tyler Anderson, instead of resigning Lorenzen (who wasn't that great for us) to be a number 3-4 pitcher and help a young pitching staff take the next step based on what he did with Dodgers last year - 15-5 with a 2.57 era (expected slight step back, but not a 4+ era). 4 young pitchers - Sandoval - sub 2.5 era last year, Detmers - sub 3 in 2nd half, Canning - looked good but had injured 2022, and Suarez - sub 3.5 in 2nd half between bullpen and spot starts; all 4 have looked less then average this season, inability to get 3rd outs, 2 strike hits, one blow up inning usually 4th or 5th, seldom getting past 5th without having thrown 90+ pitches. improved bullpen, supposedly, with Estevez as closer (he has lived up to it with the exception of a few recent games), Matt Moore as setup (of course got hurt), Tepera seeming to regain form (didnt and was dfa'd), Aaron Loup inconsistent all season and Barria our long man and spot starter who seemed to really regress. So we bring up our hard throwers, the guys who can throw 99, Ben Joyce (60 day IL), Jose Soriano (been good but is rookie, so some inconsistency) and Sam Bachman (also on 60 day IL). So trade for Giolito, Leone and Lopez, all of which have been less then spectacular, though the 2 bullpen guys have been ok.

So a big part of their problem has been, as you say, trying quick fixes all year. Funnily, they didnt really this year. Minasian is trying to rebuild a minors while under mandate to be competitive from the owner. Because of prior gms doing too many trades etc and the Angels being in middle bottom of pack, their minors have suffered. So what he is doing, with the 21 pitchers taken and a lot of college almost mlb ready guys, is trying to build around his superstars (which he though he had more then Trout and Ohtani (who when healthy are another level), but also Rendon, Walsh (remember former all-star) and Ward (all-star in 2022). They have some very serviceable rookies coming in - Neto - out with back problem, but they were over 500 when he played showing that a SS who hits 250 but plays great defense can alter a team; Schanuel looks really good so far, but we will see as things change; Moniak (former 1-1 pick) they got in trade has been almost a savior most the season.

Add to all this the can't miss prospect, former number 10 pick Angels took a couple years back, Jo Adell who has been horrible, finally looked like might be getting it and got hurt on 60 day IL (and with Trout and Ward out, I guarantee would have got some time).

I think retaining Nevin as manager was a mistake, he had made way to many mistakes, to me, but this happened because of Moreno's attempting to sell then backing out to late to really hire someone else.

All of this is a long way of saying I hope they stick with Minasian but I don't blame him, I do blame the GMS before him for not standing up to Moreno and saying we need to not keep doing same thing over and over. Of course, last GM who did that was DiPoto (the same who has engineered the Mariner resurgence) who was trying to do so by trading over hill for minors and trying to rebuild but unfortunately clashed with Scioscia during his tenure about the way to communicate with team (DiPoto wanted his analytics guys to send stuff straight to players, Scioscia wanted it filtered through coaches) and was removed. I wish he had been retained, would have liked to see what he would have done. Instead they brought in Billy Eppler, which turned out to be more of the same things Reagins had done.

Edited August 25, 2023 by slikmar

[unclevlad]

The latest trend...balks.

 

Least, it seems that way.  Maybe it's just mostly coincidental, but I've seen a LOT of em called.  Thoughtless ones, basically.  Just now?  Reds-D'backs.  7-7, 11th inning.  2 outs runner on 3rd (maybe others but doesn't matter).  Pitcher is at set position.  Breaks hands apart...then returns the pitching hand to the glove.

 

BOOM.

 

Reds, 8-7 now.  Bottom 11th coming up.

 

Earlier this week, it was pitcher had come set, at the belt.  Raised both arms, pitching hand still in mitt...then came to another stop.  OOPS.  Think that was a Yankee broadcast...Michael Kay was going...what?  Then they showed the full replay, and yep...he conceded the point.  Believe there was another in that game too.

 

I'm wondering if the clock and disengagement rules might possibly be in the back of pitchers' minds a bit.

[slikmar]

I think there was a mandate to start calling them this season. How long have people complained about the leftie balk pickoff move. with the emphasis on getting guys moving on bases, cutting down on pitcher balks not being called would make sense.

[Pariah]

The A's have been mathematically eliminated from postseason consideration. I expect the Royals and the Rockies to join them in short order.

[unclevlad]

The Royals E# is 6...because they're in the AL Central.  They're already eliminated from the WC.

 

The Rockies are actually not eliminated from the division...but the number's 2.  For the WC, it's actually about 14.

 

FanGraphs has 7 teams with a listed 0.0% chance of making the playoffs...Nats, Pirates, Cards, and Rockies in the NL, and White Sox, Royals, and A's in the AL.  < 1%:  Yankees, Tigers, Angels, Mets.  They're STILL giving the Padres almost 5%;  that one still escapes me.  32 games left, they've only got 61 wins.  So, 24-9 to get to 85?  That MIGHT get you there, but nothing all season has shown they can make that kind of run.

[unclevlad]

From the "no one saw THIS coming" department...

 

Mariners have gone 9-1;  Rangers have gone 1-9.  The MARINERS are now in 1st in the AL West.

[Pariah]

2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

The Rockies are actually not eliminated from the division...but the number's 2.  For the WC, it's actually about 14.

 

 

Bring on Rocktober 2023!

[Michael Hopcroft]

What happened to Shohei Ohtani is just what I feared would happen when he was assigned to both be the ace of the starting rotation and the full-time DH. Coming up to bat 4-5 times a game is not the same as resting a pitcher's arm for four days between starts, even if he doesn't have to play the field. It was only a matter of time before something broke down under all that load.

 

Whether they can face the idea or not, the Angels have a crucial decision to make for 2024. Ohtani's talent is extraordinary. He can be the best starter of his generation. He can be the best power hitter of his generation. He just can't be both.

 

A century ago, the New York Yankees faced a similar decision with their new acquisition Babe Ruth. Postseason awards did not exist in 1917, but if they had Ruth would have been a shoo-in for the AL Cy Young with the Red Sox. He had also started to play in the field every so often as his bat started to heat up. When his rights were sold to the Yankees for the cost of producing a Broadway musical (which turned out to be a success), the team knew that they had to choose between Ruth the dominant pitcher and the unlimited potential of Ruth the hitter. They chose the latter, and in his first season as a full-time outfielder in 1920 Ruth shattered the records for power hitting that existed at the time and continued to do so for the next fifteen years. He also played a great left field, and would have won both Gold Gloves and MVPs almost every year throughout the 1920's had those awards existed.

For Babe Ruth, the Yankees made the right decision and it changed (and possibly saved) baseball. The Angels and whatever his next team turns out to be faces the same decision with Ohtani. I have no doubt he wants to continue both pitching and DHing, but nobody's body can withstand that sort of strain for eight to ten years at the Major League level. He will have to choose. I always knew he would have to choose, and the Angels management have been short-sighted in putting off that decision as long as they have.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Michael Hopcroft

[unclevlad]

Except that I really don't think it'll be the Angels' problem.

 

Angels GM Perry Minasian said Ohtani declined an MRI 3 weeks ago, when he had to leave due to cramping in his pitching hand.

 

This is blame deflection.  From the Angels, to Ohtani and his team.  This is not an approach that will maximize goodwill between the sides...rather the opposite.  I think, if that bridge was intact before, well, the Angels just blew up all the supports.

 

Now, some of this is probably on the Angels, but a lot of this, IMO, just reflects the fact that mega-stars have ALL the power.  The team should have the power to require an MRI.  There's no reason NOT to do it...other than money, and while an MRI is expensive for us, it's nothing for them.  We can't impute anything from the fact that he did decline;  we have no information there.  We only know he did...and now everything's imploded.

 

To Logan's point...there is serious concern his pitching career is effectively OVER.  The second TJ is a very, very bad sign:
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/mlb/shohei-ohtanis-pitching-future-how-mlb-starters-have-fared-following-second-tommy-john-surgery

 

I'm not sure it was because he was also being the DH;  I will say that we don't necessarily have a good idea about HOW to handle the combination.  But, heck, guys, no one knows how to handle pitchers, PERIOD.  There's some video clips on that page, the first one *rips* the Angels for serious overuse.  I do recall a few times when Ohtani was pitching longer than needed.  I'll still leave the question open, tho...how much of this was trying to keep Shohei happy?  Flip side, of course, how much was desperation because the Angels' bullpen isn't very good?  (And there's a serious problem with bullpen overuse across all of baseball.  The Rangers have the least number of innings pitched by the bullpen, and they're still averaging 10 outs per game from the bullpen.  I'm also not sure if that doesn't tell the whole story...because that may not account for openers, who really AREN'T starters.  Some of the statistical aspects of the game have gotten seriously tangled.) 

[slikmar]

The Angels have said multiple times, they allow Ohtani to tell them when he needs a rest and when he doesn't. That he is more aware of what his body is doing than anyone else. And yes, they did want to keep him happy. I hope a LOT of the teams who would sign him will tell him no, you don't get to pitch, because that will increase the odds he stays with the Angels, since they will say, if you get back, you can. I agree he needs more days off and team may have to enforce that, but I would also point out another difference to to Ruth and Ohtani. Ohtani bats left and throws right, so apparently puts less strain on his arm, as can be seen from 2018 and now where he continued to hit despite the tear/TJ surgery.

The problem with bullpen overuse now is rampant, but there is more. Relievers seem to be a crapshoot. How many of them are all-stars one year and horrid the next. The Angels resigned Iglesias to a 4 year deal based on what he did in 2021 for 2022 and on, by trade deadline they sent him to Atlanta, where of course he became great again. That same year the Angels signed Ryan Tepera and Aaron Loup, both considered strong, solid back end pitchers (not closers). Since Tepera has been DFA'd and Loup does a lot of mop up, though he has pitched better.

[unclevlad]

And now we see how well that policy paid off.

 

A possible rationale for bullpen work...overwork also means over-exposure, especially in these days of exhaustive scouting.  The margin between a good pitch and a mediocre one isn't much.

 

Another?  Max effort pitching is plausibly harder to repeat.  Pitcher gets just slightly off, and Bad Things happen to Good Baseballs.

 

Speaking of fall from grace...Cleveland designated Noah Syndergaard for assignment this evening.  Rockies outright released Jurickson Profar.  Both were only on 1 year deals, and...let's just say, underperformed.  Profar's hitting has been terrible...3rd lowest wRC+, which is one of those weird, composite metrics, but it's related to run production...and the fact that it's the 3rd lowest among qualified hitters is clearly Really Bad.  Both will probably get deals for next season with someone...but not big or long term ones.