MLB 2023

[Cancer]

Yeah, the only reason to keep the postgame show on -- MUTED -- is to pick up other scores.

[unclevlad]

On 4/1/2023 at 9:20 PM, Cancer said:

Yeah, the only reason to keep the postgame show on -- MUTED -- is to pick up other scores.

 

ESPN scoreboard

MLB.com scoreboard

everyone runs score crawls, so you've been catching them for the most part

 

And, yes, I'm supremely lazy at times........

[unclevlad]

Bob Costas dropped a nugget...Yanks-Phillies, so it's a Yankee nugget, sort of.

 

50 years ago this week, a Yankee became the first player to be the designated hitter.

 

I honestly forgot it was that long ago...of course, by the same token, I can also pretty much say, I can't recall a time when the AL *didn't* have it.  Yeah, OK, I was old enough...but the only baseball I followed was Dodger radio broadcasts.

 

 

[Cancer]

Of course, I'm old enough to remember Vida Blue and Jim Kaat batting.  Both were hopeless.

[unclevlad]

You'll like this article, then.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/734326-the-20-most-comically-bad-hitting-pitchers-in-mlb-history

 

Kaat was NOT a bad hitting pitcher.  His lifetime average was .185...232 hits, 44 doubles, 16 home runs.  There's a nice article about pitchers and their issues hitting here:
https://sabr.org/journal/article/the-historical-evolution-of-the-designated-hitter-rule/

 

http://sabr.org/sites/default/files/Cronin-Figure1.png

 

Kaat was well over average.  (OTOH, Vida Blue was pretty miserable.  His career average was .104.)  I'm not arguing your basic point...good gosh, most of us here well recall the insipid flailing we saw from National League pitchers.  Just your example.

KILLER example?  The greatest, best, most superlative pitcher ever...for a short span...was Sandy Koufax from 1962-1966.  111-34.  ERA around 2.00.  Over 1400 strikeouts.  176 starts...100 complete games.  As a hitter?  His slash line is .097/.141/.116.  Yeah, his on base percentage is MUCH higher than his slugging percentage.   75 hits total, 9 doubles, 2 HRs.  43 walks.

[slikmar]

Remember one other thing, every sacrifice bunt doesn't count as an at bat, so doesn't hurt the average, unless they reach base safely, in which case it was a hit.

[unclevlad]

3 hours ago, slikmar said:

Remember one other thing, every sacrifice bunt doesn't count as an at bat, so doesn't hurt the average, unless they reach base safely, in which case it was a hit.

 

Very, very rare.  Especially with a pitcher, and not back then.  Pitchers follow form in those days:  they square to the ball, they pick the line (first or third), they try to get it on the ground and in play.  This isn't the combo situation where a speedy #9 or lead-off guy might be making a 2-way bunt...some chance for a hit, but secondary fallback of a sacrifice.

 

And remember how many times the pitcher was still told to try to sacrifice bunt with 2 strikes?  They mess up the first 2 bunt attempts, but the manager STILL thinks he's got the better chance of the automatic strikeout if the 2-strike bunt attempt fails.  Or even worse...a few pitchers were told to stand there and just take.  Don't bother swinging.  Pretty sure they were mostly relievers, cuz remember, this is before Baseball's Modern Wisdom and late-game relievers practically never doing more than 1 inning.

 

A sacrifice doesn't even count as a plate appearance, for on base percentage.

[Cancer]

Though a failed sacrifice does (where the lead runner is out, and the batter reaches first on a fielder's choice).

[Starlord]

23 hours ago, unclevlad said:

You'll like this article, then.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/734326-the-20-most-comically-bad-hitting-pitchers-in-mlb-history

 

 

 

 

The other side of the coin:

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2011/12/29/2668063/top-ten-list-best-hitting-pitchers-of-all-time

 

From 2011, so no Ohtani.  No Ruth because he only counted guys who pitched in 80% of their games.  I specifically remember Mike Hampton from this list being an excellent hitter (and pretty good pitcher as well).

[unclevlad]

Good hitting pitchers always stood out simply because they were such an aberration.  

 

Also, I'm not trying to nitpick here, but pitchers listed 2, 3, 4, 6, and 10 all played no later than 1933.  The figure from the second article...huh, link's there but not the image.  Oops.  Anyway, in that period, pitchers hit *significantly* better...in the 20's, the average for all pitchers was over .200.  Now...ok...the average for non-pitchers was almost .300.  This covers the explosive years when the game went from dead ball to live ball, including Ruth's 60 HR season.

 

The game changed, tho.  I used the numbers in the sabr.org article above and built this quickly.  The decade...that's the first year, so 0 is 1900-1910.  The averages, I dropped the decimal point.  70-72 is separate as this is for the pre-DH period.  Note the *serious* roll-off in the 60's and 70's...and, I suspect, we might see it more in the 40's and 50's if we split out the war vs. post-war years.  

 

Decade	pitchers	Non-pitchers	P / N-P
0	181	261	0.69
10	180	263	0.68
20	204	293	0.70
30	193	287	0.67
40	177	268	0.66
50	169	267	0.63
60	143	257	0.56
70-72	147	257	0.57

 

I'll suggest it's because pitching became more specialized over time, at least in part.  We certainly know that's the case now.  It wouldn't be true in HS, but in those days, players would sign out of HS and most commonly go to the minors for several years.  I'm thinking, the trend was, in the minors, they were pushed to pitching and away from the field, to a greater degree than in the very early decades.  

Another factor is probably here:
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pitching/picomg4.shtml

 

Though the dead ball era, the leader in CGs was typically over 30.  Slide forward to post-WWII, and even more dramatically, post-Korean War, and the numbers drop off substantially.  Pitchers who throw lots of CGs get more at-bats...so their ability to hit becomes more significant.  Even if relievers throw longer when they're used...their overall hitting doesn't really matter.  Their ability to sacrifice?  Yeah.

 

So someone like Hampton or Zambrano *really* stand out relative to the pathetic hitting of the rest of the pitchers of their day.  It's HARD!!! to compare different eras without contextual considerations like that.

[Cygnia]

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Don't look now but the Rays are 11-0.

[Pariah]

The A's to SLC, perhaps?

 

Utah group seeks to bring Major League Baseball to Salt Lake City's west side

[unclevlad]

Bizarre play Yanks-Guardians.  Line drive goes off the top of the wall in deep center.  CF gets it in quickly, then...........

 

 

Should be the SS with the ball, top of the pic.  Larry Vanover is the ump.  Note they're, what, 40 feet apart or so?

Yeah.  SS is throwing home...and the throw nails Vanover in the head.  NO chance to avoid it.

 

Vanover walked off the field on his own, to receive attention.  

 

Oh, and remember a few weeks ago, when we were talking about reduced beer sales?

At least 4 teams have started to extend sales longer.  8th inning, rather than 7th.

[Pariah]

25 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

Oh, and remember a few weeks ago, when we were talking about reduced beer sales?

At least 4 teams have started to extend sales longer.  8th inning, rather than 7th.

 

An unexpected consequence of the pitch clock and the resulting drastically-shortened game time. Who woulda thunk? 

[Cygnia]

 

[Cygnia]

Phillies' Matt Strahm disagrees with MLB teams extending alcohol sales

[unclevlad]

20 minutes ago, Cygnia said:

Phillies' Matt Strahm disagrees with MLB teams extending alcohol sales

 

Yeah, this isn't the first time I've heard that complaint...but it is the first time I've heard it from a player.  And heck, if the home team's got the lead...the top of the 9th can easily now be over in an eyeblink. Closers were often slow workers, and the 9th inning felt like the last 4 minutes of a college basketball game, taking *forever* to complete with the fouls, and seemingly EVERY dead ball leading to a review for something...quite often, resetting the clock 0.2 seconds or somesuch nonsense, when there's still 30 seconds left.  Can't happen now, with the pitch timing rules. 

[Pariah]

I used to dream of the Rockies returning to the World Series one day. Then I dreamed of the Rockies one day returning to the playoffs ... or to .500. Now I just have this dream:

 

[unclevlad]

Hey, you can still have a dream...that the Rockies win more games than the Nuggets.

 

EDIT:  little consolation for ya...you might be an A's fan...

 

A's pitching is giving up more than 1.5 runs per game than the Rockies.  Their average margin per game is losing by...count it...4 runs.  Per game!!  KC's record is only 1 win better and their margin's about -2.2 runs per game.  Heck, as hot as Tampa Bay's been, and they hammered Cincy for 6 more runs in the first inning...the A's margin is a run more extreme, on the wrong side, than Tampa Bay's.  

 

Losing THAT badly...well, it's still too early to write them out of the playoffs given the expanded format...but by Memorial Day...?  There's 5 teams right now winning less than 1/3 of their games as we close in on the 20 game mark, which is about the point where there's at least some track record to consider.  Not good.

[unclevlad]

The A's have given up on Oakland.  They've signed a binding deal to buy 49 acres of land on which to construct a new stadium.

 

The location?

 

Come on, need you even ask?

 

Vegas.

 

The site feels small, but they're not building a mega-huge stadium...seating capacity is listed at 35,000.  The site is listed as across the freeway from T-Mobile Arena, a few blocks west of the Strip.  That looks to mean its southern border might be Tropicana Blvd...which is a major bus route.  That should mean fairly good mass transit access, which can help reduce the need for a huge amount of parking.

 

Many steps yet to be completed, and the stadium won't open until the 2027 season.

 

EDIT:  another little story.

The Diamondbacks have an extensive history of...seriously questionable acquisitions, overpaying for them much of the time, when the overall team wasn't close to good enough to justify them.  Greinke was the big one, Madison Bumgarner was another, IMO.  Greinke's long gone;  after 4 horrible starts, MadBum got DFA'd today.  Horrible, as in 2.4 WHIP and 10+ ERA.  Little or no chance anyone will pick him up, as they'd be on the hook for his current contract...$20M this year, $14M next year.  His ERA with Arizona has been over 5...over a span of 4 years.  And Arizona's on the hook for it, that money was fully guaranteed.  Let him clear waivers, and he'll probably sign with someone for cheap.  He'll be 34 this summer, so there's a decent chance he can regain some form and help a team.

[slikmar]

I think Bumgarner is a classic example of a peak pitcher. To many high leverage innings in a short time, especially playoffs. Saw a thing on MLBNow today about Kershaw and how, not counting playoffs, from 2010 to 2015 he was the best pitcher in baseball, not even close, except in playoffs (remember the Bumgarner vs Kershaw debate?), so, last 6 years when he has declined - well his innings are down about 600 total BUT his statistics are almost identical in a per 9 inning category. And really, the bad in playoffs thing was almost all about St. Louis and most pundits truly believe they knew what pitches he was going to throw. Now look at those 2, Kershaw is a first ballot HOFer, truly he ranks in top 10 all time pitching, but is Madison?

[unclevlad]

I'd narrow it down even more.  MadBum's pitching in the World Series was beyond Lights Out.  5 appearances, 4 starts, 36 innings, 1...ONE!!!!!...say it with me, ONE EARNED RUN!!!

 

The only season where he had major postseason use was '14, looking at Baseball Reference.  '10...22 innings (3 rounds)...and 2 were mediocre.  '12...2 BAD starts, combined 8 innings and 13 runs in the DS and LCS.  Then 7 sweet innings in the WS.  '14...you've got a case, big time.  CG shutout in the WC game against the Pirates.  7 decent innings (3 runs, 2 earned) in a loss to Washington in the DS.  15.2 innings in 2 good starts (total of 3 runs) in the LCS.  21 superb innings in the WS.  That's definitely a major workload.

 

Go to the regular season records...'10, only 7-6 with 111 IP.  '12, 16-11 with a 3.37 ERA, 208 innings.  Tied for 20th in ERA.  Good, but not great.  '14, 18-10, 2.98 ERA, 217 innings.  

 

His numbers from '13-'16 are better than I remembered.  ERA under 3, all 4 years.  WHIP under 1.1 each year, under 1.05 3 of em.  Workload wasn't bad, never more than 227 innings.  Then came '17.  4-9, 111 innings.  Dirt bike accident, shoulder injury.  '18...broken finger in spring training.  ERA 3.26 in 130 innings.  One may suspect he never really rounded into form.  '19, he was back to a full workload...but not deep.  34 starts, only 207 innings.  ERA almost 4, too.  That's when he went FA.

 

The D'backs paid for '13-'16 and WS Hero MadBum when there wasn't much indication he'd come back to that form.  The WS record's awesome, but the overall body looks like the little girl with the curls...when she's good, she's very good, and when she's bad, she's very, very bad. 

 

Kershaw...my take is the back issues.  He's got a BIG bend there to get it to break like it does.  Post season?  Neither Glavine nor Maddux have sterling post-season numbers...altho IIRC, a fair bit of those was the Braves' offense was dominated by mistake hitters.  There's an open question about finesse pitching in the postseason, too.    

[unclevlad]

Of all the ways to lose a perfect game...

 

Drew Smyly for the Cubs.  7 perfect.  Game's a laugher, Cubs have been bombing away all game, it's 13-0.  David Peralta came in on defense in the 7th for the Dodgers.  Leads off the 8th.  Tops the ball, hitting a 1-hop-type dribbler down the 3rd base line...and he's a left-handed hitter with decent speed.  The ball's in no-man's land.  Pitcher charges.  Catcher charges.  Smyly gets there first, picks up the ball, getting ready to turn.....................

 

.....when the catcher can't stop himself and rolls over the top of him, as Smyly is still bent over.

 

It would've been close, at best.  Peralta was far down the line as Smyly was getting the ball.  But still...getting bowled over by the catcher on a dribbler.

 

 

[Cygnia]

Raiders' Mark Davis goes nuclear on A's move: 'All they did was f—k the Bay Area'