What rules have interesting ideas in the social section?

[Old Man]

7 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Better tactics, like higher ground or an ambush, improve our odds against the dragon.  Better tactics, like knowing the Chancellor's likes and dislikes, and using them in our presentation, should improve our odds of persuading the Chancellor.

Personal skills, like knowing how to build an explosive the dragon's breath would set off, does not enter into the game. Why should the player's personal articulateness enter into the game?

 

It occurs to me that I've never seen an RPG that attempts to model social interactions in any detail.  You can say things like "I know he's vain so I try to complement his personal appearance" or "I tell him I have a better offer to try and drive the price up", but in the end you get a skill roll and the GM might give you a bonus for the social tactic.

 

You'd think that somewhere, sometime, someone would have written up a more mechanically crunchy system for bargaining, questioning, or persuading, using "maneuvers" like lies, flattery, acting, and reading your "adversary". 

[Scott Ruggels]

17 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

How does Social Mechanics make the world anymore or less malleable than it already is? I’m confused on that point.

It is how the rolls are implemented., and for what reason.  FOr the sake of RP immersion, I prefer that there is a strict GM and Player boundary. The GM brings the world, and the player brings the character. If, Like combat, a social roll is applied to a Player character, and the effect is calculated, and the same works if applied to an NPC, it's all fair, and immersion is not broken. But if a roll is made that changes a character's back story or the environment, that makes the envoronment maleable, or inconsistent, and messes up the immersion.  There is a right way, and a wrong way to do it, and my nervousness, is that most of the social systems are now tied to heavily externally narrative systems, which is why the paranoid response.  There have been  two RPG systems that had developed social and social combat systems, boit by designer P. Kidd , using very different mechanics. The Ties and Antipathies system from the Albedo SF game, and using the deuling cards in his later Lace & Steel game.

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

It occurs to me that I've never seen an RPG that attempts to model social interactions in any detail.  You can say things like "I know he's vain so I try to complement his personal appearance" or "I tell him I have a better offer to try and drive the price up", but in the end you get a skill roll and the GM might give you a bonus for the social tactic.

 

You'd think that somewhere, sometime, someone would have written up a more mechanically crunchy system for bargaining, questioning, or persuading, using "maneuvers" like lies, flattery, acting, and reading your "adversary". 

 

Someone did.

  

On 3/31/2023 at 12:54 AM, Lord Liaden said:

 

APG II includes three complete Social Combat systems. One is Skill based, expanding on the uses of standard Hero Skills and adding a couple of new ones, plus new mechanics to represent the results of more complex interactions. Another is Talent based, providing a range of new Talents built using the standard system rules, which can impact people in a variety of subtle ways. The third is Combat Maneuvers based, offering a fair-sized number of new Social Combat Maneuvers with rules for attacking, defending, and "damaging" an opponent. Each system has its strengths and weaknesses, depending on how they match what you'd like to have happen in your game.

 

 

[DentArthurDent]

Step 1: Roll whatever dice are required to determine the relative success of your social interaction. 
 

Step 2: Role-play the results.

 

Putting step 2 first is like asking players to physically maneuver through a set of obstacles then applying modifiers to the characters’ dice rolls.

Which was really fun when we were healthy twenty-somethings!
 

But it’s incredibly discriminatory for those with physical, mental, or social challenges.

My life is much more inclusive than it was back in those days. And much more enjoyable.

[assault]

3 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

There have been  two RPG systems that had developed social and social combat systems, boit by designer P. Kidd , using very different mechanics. The Ties and Antipathies system from the Albedo SF game, and using the deuling cards in his later Lace & Steel game.

 

Pauli Kidd came out as trans some time ago, so "her" Lace & Steel game, even though she wrote it before coming out, and it has an older name on it.

She's also a Hero System fan.

Edited April 19, 2023 by assault

[Old Man]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Someone did.

  

 

 

What's funny is that I own that PDF but somehow never noticed that this was in it.

[Scott Ruggels]

7 hours ago, assault said:

 

Pauli Kidd came out as trans some time ago, so "her" Lace & Steel game, even though she wrote it before coming out, and it has an older name on it.

She's also a Hero System fan.

Well aware of her current situation. She goes by Pauli, and I watch their YouTube.  Just using the initial so as to make it easier to find the game, as she could use the cash. 

[Opal]

On 4/18/2023 at 2:21 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

Well, that’s a good thing isn’t it? At least I would think so.

I mean, I'd think it's vital - that's what an RPG *is*.

 

I guess one way to put it is:  imagine the only valid genre is Isekai.  Like,,you jump into another world and another body with physical abilities, muscle memories, supernatural powers - but your own mind,,thoughts, and memories.  You're yourself with different abilities.

So you have an authentic experience of having those abilities (not of acquiring them, but), you explore what it's like to cast spells or leap tall buildings or whatever.  And, you experience the setting and/or influence it from your own perspective.  

So, for instance, riding a flying mount would be a wondrous experience for you, but if they were common in the world, and you were playing a character that was native to the world and a customer to it, you'd have to shelve that and be blaize about it.

Or, if you're able to cast spells, you could do things with them a native caster might never think of.  Like,,hey, I can build a Turing machine using lots of magic mouth spells....

Edited April 19, 2023 by Opal

[Ninja-Bear]

@Opal, I think (think mind you) that you and I are on the same page. That’s one thing I rather dislike about some people’s understanding of playing OSR. The idea that even if I’m and elf, I’m really just me in the Fantasy world. No, if I’m and Elf then I’ll try to act like an elf. Really its the thief thing that gets me. I don’t know how a trap works in life however my character does so why is he getting penalized?