5th edition character help. 350pt Powered Armor

[Strand]

Could someone give me some ideas for a 350 point Powered Armor? 

The most powerful attacks are 14d6.

Disads are not important. I can fill in the 150 points.

I am running out of points. I have used OIF and Linked at the same time and I think I shouldn't do that even when the Character Creator has no issue with it. It doesn't seem like it should work.

When I don't use those two together, I run out of points.  

Anyway, YOUR character builds would be a great start for me so I see what to start with. Maybe I'm just not being creative enough.

Thanks. 

Also, this ISN'T for a game. I'm just playing around. It's what I do when I'm in the middle of a lull in a game.

[Tom Cowan]

have you used a multpower?

[Doc Democracy]

You should show us where you are, give us an idea of what you are thinking about.  There are LOADS of published powered armour characters, you could get quite generic help or focused, depending on what you are trying to achieve.

[LoneWolf]

Linked and a focus can be used on the same power if the link actually limits the character.  The basic rule of the Hero System is that a limitation that does not limit the character is not a limitation.  That includes limitations that are basically duplicates of another limitation.  For example taking the limitation only in Hero ID to simulate a focus that is never taken away means you cannot take the focus limitation.  For example if I had a gun that fired poison bullets I could link a drain to the RKA and still take the focus on both powers.  I could use the RKA without using the drain, but if I want to use the drain I have to use the RKA and actually do BODY with it.  

 

In the case of armor that just has to be worn that is not limiting the secondary power any more than needing the focus.  So linking life support to armor that is always active when the focus is in use is not limiting the life support more than just having the focus.  If you linked the life support to a force field that costs END to use that would be different.  Under 5th edition rules force field is not persistent and you have to pay END every phase.  Having your life support turned off when you are stunned, knocked out or out of END does limit the power more than the focus so would be a legitimate limitation.

 

If you are running out of points it is probably because you are going overboard.   Just because you are using power armor does not mean your character has to be invulnerable.   In the comics characters like Iron Man tend to be near indestructible, but that does not work well in a game.   You can have decent defenses without being indestructible.  Your character is also one of a group instead of the main character.  

 

Some things can be done to improve the character but having the details of what you have done would help.  Using frameworks can help a lot.  
 

[archer]

If it's a beginning character, you likely shouldn't have a 14d6 attack. I usually go for 11d6 or maybe 12.

 

But to echo an earlier comment, show us what you've got so we can see what you're trying to do. Otherwise, we're just looking at typing out combinations of disadvantages which could be applied to random powers.

[Strand]

I'll working on making a list of powers.  I'm basing this on my current character in the current game.

 

(NOTE: when I say I am basing this on the character below, the Armored character has NOTHING to do with it. All it is is the basic build structure that I was using).

 

Though he has gained 40XP, he started with 14d6 EB and a 7d6NND. He has 16" of flight, x2 Non combat. That character, Mysterio, has a 0END force field. At the beginning of the game, his attack powers cost 7 END and he has an END reserve. 

 

I think when I started the Armored character, I had the idea of TK. (Powers based on TK but he wears armor for defense). I am sure from what Lone Wolf has said that I have done Linked wrong. I only read what it said in the book. It implied that I could link a lesser power to, say, Armor.  That would be the intent. None of the powers can be used without the Armor. though I think as much as I would like the weapon multi power would cost more and couldn't be linked. 

 

I was also trying to look at Variable limitation, sort of like Superman (but not the same.  The idea being that part of this armor fell to earth. I always liked to look of Doctor Fate's Helmet in Black Adam and thought it would be a cool helmet for armor to sort of come out of. So the thought was that this Armor came from "out there". I could apply limitations in that way.

 

I'll look for my other character attempt with the Linked and OIF and post it as soon as I can.  Thanks

Mysterio_number 12.hdc

Edited May 30, 2023 by Strand

[Strand]

I had to rebuild the old character with Linked and OIF. I am sure it is a far cry different from the original because this one balances. The difference between this one and the Mysterio character that I am currently in a game with is not having an EC. Obviously I was able to save points with that.  I suppose I could have saved a bunch of points with this armored character without the Multiform. I was thinking that He would change into a weaker form, sort of like the Comic Book Thor. 

 

Once again, this isn't a character for game play, but if we played Champions again after our current game, I would want to play something like this. Even when the program is saying this is all fine, I want to see that it is. 

Thanks.

TK armor2.hdc

[Doc Democracy]

Gonna have to wait until I get home to my computer with Hero designer on it...

[Tom Cowan]

Yea, Multiform could be dropped, or pay for the Multiform from the normal human form.

No rPD? The hero is going to hate street level hired guns.

Also you could saved a bunch of points on stats by using OIF (armor) on them.

[Strand]

I'm going to play with the Stats as suggested, but I think Armor is resistant PD and ED.  The same thing for Forcefield. Unless you are referring to something else?

 

Thanks.

[Tom Cowan]

ah, you are right, was seeing 5/30 PD and thinking the armor had not added rPD

 

[Strand]

Thanks for the help with the stats. You are right. I did save a bunch of points on them. I also got rid of Linked to Armor which still bugged me. Linked works fine on other things, but for some reason in my mind Linking to armor just doesn't work. I removed it and I still have points left over. 

The Multiform was just a Role Playing thing I suppose and I didn't really need it anyway. 

 

Thanks for the help

[Tom Cowan]

in some ways your hero is a Multiform, with helm is one form and without helm is the other.  new stats, new powers and new look all in one. 

[LoneWolf]

What is the concept of the character?  The character seems to be more of a random selection of powers.  Other than flying and hitting things the character cannot really do much.  You have a multiform but what do you change into?  

 

Some of your disadvantages are questionable.  I am not sure what "He has no face" is supposed to represent.   It is listed as easily concealable.  If it is because his costume has no face, that is not a disadvantage.  You have can’t stop speaking out loud as very frequently severe.  This means he is constantly yelling out things almost all the time, but he has stealth, shadowing and concealment.  Kind of hard to hide when you are yelling at the top of your lungs. 

 

Is the 14d6 the hard limit of the campaign or the normal damage?  If the normal damage is usually lower you would be better off purchasing more powers at a lower level.   Right now, you are one shot wonder that does not do much. 

 

 

 

The best way to build a Champions character is to come up with the concept first.  Write down some of the things the character can do without using any game terms.  Think of the special effect of his powers and what they can accomplish.  Once you have a concept you can start to build the character.  If you give us more ideas of what you are looking to build we can give you more useful advice.

[Duke Bushido]

On 5/30/2023 at 2:21 PM, Strand said:

 

Though he has gained 40XP, he started with 14d6 EB and a 7d6NND.

 

Unless you want to be able to use them simultaneously at full strength, put them in a multipower.

 

If you dont want to be able to use them simultaneously at all, go for Ultra slots on your MP.

 

 

On 5/30/2023 at 2:21 PM, Strand said:

He has 16" of flight, x2 Non combat. That character, Mysterio, has a 0END force field.

 

Attack /move / Force Field multipowers were very common once upon a time.  I don't know if they still are, but it is worth considering.  They weren't my favorite, but I am the odd man out here.

 

Here's an odd one you might try:  figure out how much FF you can get for the cost of your NCM.  Deduct that much from your current FF.  Create a multipower that has 2 Ultra slots:  X2 NCM or "plus x Force Field."  You still have access to your base FF any time you want, and so long as you aren't using the NCM, you have access to all of it.

 

(It kills me that stuff like this happens at every session I have ever run or played in, yet Elemental Control was "too cheaty.")

 

The savings are small in that second example, but significant.  It is small builds and character-appropriate power limitations, all small increments, that add together for those "last few points" that you need.

 

On 5/30/2023 at 2:21 PM, Strand said:

. It implied that I could link a lesser power to, say, Armor.

 

The easiest way to remember it is that Linked means "I cannot use Power 2 unless I am already using Power 1."

 

There are further caveats, and I can't tell you what they are for 6e, but things like Instant Power requirements or Endurance costs, or things like that.

 

 

On 5/30/2023 at 2:21 PM, Strand said:

 

 That would be the intent. None of the powers can be used without the Armor.

 

Yeah-  Linked isnt right for this.  Consider Focus or "Only in Heroic ID."

 

 

On 5/30/2023 at 2:21 PM, Strand said:

 

though I think as much as I would like the weapon multi power would cost more and couldn't be linked. 

 

Right, but they could still be bought through your Focus or Heroic ID.  Pay close attention to how limitations apply to Reserves and Slots, though id you are ysing the HD software, it will likely keep you straight.

 

 

 

On 5/30/2023 at 2:21 PM, Strand said:

 

I was also trying to look at Variable limitation, sort of like Superman (but not the same.  The idea being that part of this armor fell to earth. I always liked to look of Doctor Fate's Helmet in Black Adam and thought it would be a cool helmet for armor to sort of come out of. So the thought was that this Armor came from "out there". I could apply limitations in that way.

 

Not really sure how this is a Limitation as opposed to an origin.  A little help?

 

 

 

 

On 5/30/2023 at 2:21 PM, Strand said:

 

I'll look for my other character attempt with the Linked and OIF and post it as soon as I can.  Thanks

Mysterio_number 12.hdc 77.24 kB · 9 downloads

 

 

And I am sorry if you have already done the things I suggest; I dont use HD and cannot open the files.

 

[Strand]

I don't think anyone is understanding is that Mysterio is something to be judged. It is a character that is already in play. (note that there are 40 points in it. The game  has been going for many weeks. Because people will ask though, Mysterio is kind of based on my profile pic. He is that Dark Noir detective where you can't see his face. His background is that he came out of a book that no one read. He was magically pulled from it. The character speaks as if you were to read the lines from a book. For example. "The detective walked down the alley and and spoke to the thug. "You ain't supposed to be here," he said". 

That is how the character talks. Also, about the Distinctive Feature. I originally set it for 5. His face is constantly in shadows. It's rather difficult to get a license. But he can look in a mirror and sees his face just fine. My GM suggested an additional 5 for other reasons.

I did think that at one point saying all the time. "That's an insane idea!" Mysterio said.  So I put an 8- on that once a day. But instead of the group hating it, they LOVED it. 

 

Another thing. My attacks are normal for the group. If you think they should be 12d6 for a starting character, good for you, it's your game.  But as I have said before, this is a game that has been going since last year.  I'm sorry it wasn't well received by the community.

 

Now, as far as the other character. CONCEPT: I had originally decided that I had an Archeologist who finds this Alien Artifact that has fallen from the sky. It is a helmet that when he puts it on, it transforms into Alien Armor. That is the basic concept. OH one other thing. Instead of using a standard energy blast, I wanted him to have Telekinesis. So his power  collection would be like that. "Kinetic Blast" and so on. 

 

I thought I wrote this down but as I look up I don't see it. The Disadvantages on the character I have questions about DO NOT MATTER. This is not a character for a game it is just something I am playing with. When I am messing around I use another character and save it as something else. I probably should have deleted all those disadvantages, but then you would have complained that I didn't have any, so the point is moot. 

 

As above, 14d6 is normal (for our group), so I need not worry about that.  

 

I know people in this group and many other have to say it, but I have been playing role playing games since the 80's I think the word is Grognard? I know perfectly well how to create a character. Champions is just more difficult for me for the mechanics so I rely on the program. Unfortunately the program lets through things like Linked even when I am sure it's great with some things but not with others. 

 

I'm sorry I didn't quote anyone. I hope the attached zipped PDFs work for anyone that wants to look. I think I got the help I needed. If anyone wants to still criticize the Mysterio character, please do so.

 

thanks for the help.

 

Mysterio.pdf.zip Metallica.pdf.zip

Edited June 3, 2023 by Strand

[Doc Democracy]

Strand, I'm sorry if this all came across as criticism rather than discussion, the guys almost never (we are all flawed, so we do sometimes) talk down other people's games or styles of play.

 

What was missing was the context, to give real advice on a character rather than mechanical, "this is what a 'standard' game looks like", they need things that breathe life into the bunch of numbers.

 

Upfront say, "I have this character in a campaign, played for a while. The campaign runs with attacks of xD6 and defences running around x points.  I don't think I am using the system efficiently and might be missing out on cool stuff because of that."  Then tell us what you just told us about Mysterio - the quirks, the description, the gameplay (especially the emergent stuff that the group likes).

 

I feel like I know the character now, and the game he is supposed to sit inside. 🙂  I am sure others will feel the same.

 

Doc

[assault]

If you are already playing the character, any modifications need to be passed through the GM.

[Doc Democracy]

1 hour ago, assault said:

If you are already playing the character, any modifications need to be passed through the GM.

 

I reckon he knows that. 🙂 Not a gaming newbie. 🙂

 

I am going to have to think how I would have built the character.  It has the classic bunch of tools approach which is always more costly.

 

@Strand My instinct is that you are frittering away points in characteristics.  179 points, more than half, for a character whose schtick is shadow powers and detective skills.

 

Does he really need to be at normal Maxima in most of those?  Once you invest heavily in stats you tend to go down the martial arts/brick route.

 

I need to think about what I would do.  Instinctively I think there are only minor gains to be had in skills and powers...

Edited June 3, 2023 by Doc Democracy

[Doc Democracy]

Just remembered that this thread was supposed to be about Metallica rather than Mysterio! 

 

Do you have any colour text/context for Metallica?  It helps me to think about the best power constructs when I can visualise the character..

[Doc Democracy]

I had a look at Metallica.  I really think we need to know the game standards.  Your character is running at SPD 5, hiding behind 30 points of defences (25 resistant), with a CV of 9 and throwing 14D6 attacks.

 

You seem to be wanting to be an expert of all trades, combat-wise (that is a common desire in point buy systems but it does tend to mean all characters are somewhat same-y.  It is also always going to be expensive.  In my games characters can work at the highest SPD range and attack damage but compromise on CV and defences.  Only two of those four can be at, or close to maximum.  I like there to be distinct differences between the characters and for them to make choices in Combat, but that is my game, what is yours?

 

One thing pops out at me, everything on the sheet is OIF but doesn't say what the focus is.  If it is all the armour, then, reasonably often in my games you would lose access to ALL those abilities and that leaves you pretty exposed and helpless.  I would, for your own benefit, be having at least three or four foci so that you can lose parts of your power when the GM decides it is focus complication time. 🙂 

 

Doc

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Doc Democracy

[Strand]

5 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

One thing pops out at me, everything on the sheet is OIF but doesn't say what the focus is.  If it is all the armour, then, reasonably often in my games you would lose access to ALL those abilities and that leaves you pretty exposed and helpless.  I would, for your own benefit, be having at least three or four foci so that you can lose parts of your power when the GM decides it is focus complication time.

You got me thinking about this. My original idea for the character was Armored with TK outside of the armor. It would be like giving Professor Xavier powered armor. (I always thought one Plot Bullet would kill most comic book mutants)

 

As far as the rest, my GM is fine with 5 speed and 14d6 damage. In our current game the damage ranges from 12d6 on up to 15d6. We have a Martial Arts character with almost no armor, but 18DCV.  As far as expert at everything, it comes with playing a lot of 4th edition and many Power Gamers in the room. 5 speed was the norm but it was higher.  14d6 was the norm, but it was higher. OCV 9 was norm, but it was higher. So I was keeping up with the Joneses as it were. When I create Mysterio, OCV 9 etc, my GM who was both player and GM back then doesn't blink because it was normal back then and is normal here.  

 

So, Multi power for Metallica, no more focus. 

[Doc Democracy]

16 minutes ago, Strand said:

So, Multi power for Metallica, no more focus. 

 

That's not what I said, I said don't make everything the same focus, not everything should be armour.  You might have headgear for some stuff, ankle and wrist rockets for another, just so the loss of one focus does not lose you almost every power you have.

 

Foci are the most common way for this kind of character to save points.

 

As far as campaign standards go, it is always worth stating them upfront, then everyone can see how your numbers compare to the campaign averages and maximums.

 

The problem with high caps, or no caps is that everyone needs to invest in high numbers, leaving little left for colour and breadth.

 

Doc

[steriaca]

It's ok for villain characters to have all their powers tied into that One Object Of Power. A hero can stop the powerful villain just by grabbing it and yanking it away (or disarm, or actually attacking the focus and damaging it...). Whilr certain comic book superheroes have that One Object Of Power (Iron Man's armor, Green Lantern's power ring for examples), they are usually not bought as Focus (or eventually buy off that power limitation so the tactics used against him in his early career no longer work).

 

Heroes can still buy focus limitation powers, just as everyone said don't put all powers in one focus, even if the special effects are part of the whole Object Of Power. 

[Tom Cowan]

5 hours ago, steriaca said:

It's ok for villain characters to have all their powers tied into that One Object Of Power. A hero can stop the powerful villain just by grabbing it and yanking it away (or disarm, or actually attacking the focus and damaging it...). Whilr certain comic book superheroes have that One Object Of Power (Iron Man's armor, Green Lantern's power ring for examples), they are usually not bought as Focus (or eventually buy off that power limitation so the tactics used against him in his early career no longer work).

 

Heroes can still buy focus limitation powers, just as everyone said don't put all powers in one focus, even if the special effects are part of the whole Object Of Power. 

a half way point would maybe buying Only in hero ID (-1/4)