What's a good starting point total for a solo PC?

[AlgaeNymph]

So you have a PC who's dealing with supervillains -- and maybe superheroes -- all on their own.  Assuming we don't power things down, would more starting points be warranted?  And how much?

[Beast]

More is going to depend on the GM
the GM will need to balance the fights
so a 400 pt super should be fine
Now what the GM throws at the hero is the factor

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I hate to do this again but, it depends.  What kind of campaign and setting do you want?  Are you doing a street-level Daredevil/Nightwing kind of game, or a Superman type game?  That's a huge swing in point values.  Do you have a lot of powers or are you mostly a trained normal person?  Are you doing detective work and fighting street gangs or are you saving the world from alien invasions?

[Stanley Teriaca]

Like @Christopher R Taylor said (and I only at him so I don't have to spell his name), it depends on what type of comic book you are trying to create for your players. There is no one size fits all in Champions. A street level campaigns don't need many points as a standard superhero campaign, nor the save the world twice a day and three times on a Sunday campaign.

[Tech]

Also, to an extent, is how you build the PC. A hero built just to cause damage will differ from one that is built to handle multiple situations - and have a life outside of being a hero.

[Haerandir]

I would say, in general terms, that any given point value will work fine, as long as you tailor the opposition to represent a reasonable challenge for an individual character. This means that you should probably stick to solo villains and/or small groups of heroic-level agents. A team of 4-5 starting superheroes could reasonably be expected to face down a similar number of supervillains or a dozen-plus agents. A solo hero would almost certainly be overwhelmed by that kind of numerical advantage unless built specifically to handle numerous opponents and even then would probably do better if built on at least 50-100 more points than the starting average for the setting. 

 

If you want, for narrative purposes, to face your solo hero with a full villain team or a horde or mooks, I would suggest both that you tone down their point totals relative to the hero and arrange your scenarios so that the hero is unlikely to engage more than 2 villains or 3-5 mooks in a single combat scene. Thus, if your player is a starting-level superhero and you're using published supervillains, trim 1-2 damage classes off of their attacks, or drop their defense values by 15-20% - that sort of thing. Similarly, if they're stopping a bank robbery, have 1 villain in the lobby controlling the hostages, 1 in the offices interrogating the bank manager, and maybe 2 in the vault as a final challenge. 

 

As others have pointed out, character & encounter design matter more than raw point totals. 

[AlgaeNymph]

> What kind of campaign and setting do you want?  

Default Champions setting.

> Are you doing a street-level Daredevil/Nightwing kind of game, or a Superman type game?

A covert agent sort of thing.

> Do you have a lot of powers or are you mostly a trained normal person?

Mystic focusing on skills and utilities. 

> Are you doing detective work and fighting street gangs or are you saving the world from alien invasions?

Seeking out the Janus Key.

[Christopher R Taylor]

You probably will not need more than 300-350 pts if you're not out saving the world.  400 points is given as the default for a basic superhero but in my experience rebuilding old characters, that is at least 50 points too rich.

[AlgaeNymph]

14 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

You probably will not need more than 300-350 pts if you're not out saving the world.

Really?  Even if I'm competing with other mystic heavy hitters?  Though allying with other heroes was always an option.

 

But what about nabbing the Janus Key from whoever's strong enough to hold on to it?  And yes, I know about Cirque Sinister.  They were meddling kids defeated by a deus ex machina.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I honestly know nothing about the Janus Key or much detail of the Champions Universe, so I can't comment on that for power level.  But a covert investigative campaign rather than a rock em, sock em campaign of superheroes fighting world menaces sounds like its lower powered.

[Lord Liaden]

The Janus Key is a plot device. It has a measure of sapience and independent will, and decides for itself who finds it. And who finds it will determine what it's used for, how it affects Reality. So the appropriate level of PC can be whatever a GM sets the scenario for.

 

The type of "mystic heavy hitter" going after the Key also makes a huge difference. Takofanes and the Circle of the Scarlet Moon are both "heavy" in their ways, but confronting the former head-to-head will be a very different experience compared to the latter. A heavy hitter can also use minions, at least initially. Dr. Yin Wu would likely send one or more of his Four Sons of the Dragon to acquire the Key, rather than appearing himself.

 

If it is likely that the heavy hitter will show up in person, and you're concerned about balance, remember that if a bad guy can gain control of the Janus Key, so can a good guy.

[Christopher R Taylor]

How many times did The Red Skull get the Cosmic cube only to lose it again?  And no matter what he did, he couldn't seem to defeat Captain America

[Lord Liaden]

The Red Skull may be a political and tactical genius, but otherwise he appears rather unimaginative. He never seemed to grasp the full potential of the Cosmic Cube.

 

Has anyone ever actually used the Janus Key in their games? And did you invent an origin for it? I have my own ideas, but I'm curious as to what others have done with it.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I have to say, again, that Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon did such a great job with Cap, Red Skull, and the Cosmic Cube.  Cap and Red Skull both get their hands on the cube at the same instant, and there's a huge flash but nothing seems to have happened.

 

What was Cap's fondest wish?  To save Bucky.

What was Red Skulls?  For Cap to suffer

 

So Bucky is returned... in a way that is misery for Captain America.  I really don't like bringing Bucky back, but if you're going to do it, that's the best way to handle a bad event

[AlgaeNymph]

Useful info so far.

 

But back to the topic, another sort of PC I have in mind is a Cosmic Gem wielder.  Specifically of the "true" variety; a 90 point VPP rather than blasty-blasty.  They're another skill & utility sort and their goal is general do-gooding, particularly of the systemic sort.  What'd be a good starting point total for a solo there?

[Lord Liaden]

Huh. You're saying you want "A covert agent sort of thing," playing a "Mystic focusing on skills and utilities." But you're also tossing around Janus Keys and Cosmic Gems, and 90 point VPPs. To me those concepts don't sound like they'll mesh very well.

Edited May 10 by Lord Liaden

[AlgaeNymph]

10 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Huh. You're saying you want "A covert agent sort of thing," playing a "Mystic focusing on skills and utilities." But you're also tossing around Janus Keys and Cosmic Gems, and 90 point VPPs. To me those concepts don't sound like they'll mesh very well.

 

Maybe a little clarification'll help.  Maybe.

 

Character 1: Night Witch.  Soldier-mage.  Agent of morally gray organization; one that does good through bad means.  Seeks Key for agency.

Character 2: Cintamani.  Jumped-up nobody with Cosmic Gem.  Aimless, but cautious.  Has everything, so sees nothing left but altruism.

 

None of them are stand-up fight sorts.  What they do have are really good "utility belts," and the imagination to use them.

[LoneWolf]

What really matter is what the player is going to be going up against.  If the campaign is mostly a single super hero vs a single super villain  built on similar points you don’t need to adjust anything.  If the super villain has lots of agents and other minion (like the typical champions game), you probably do need to make some adjustments.  If the hero is going to be fighting lots of agents and does not encounter super powered agents as much you also probably don’t need to make many adjustments. 

 

Another thing to factor in is the Hero going to have allies.  Having some NPC’s the player can count on can make a huge difference in the game even if they are weaker than the character.  
 

[Gauntlet]

I would actually say perhaps have the character be a little bit lower than the standard starting game, perhaps at 300 points. This way the character has the feeling of a starting hero who has to think about the villains he is going against.