Taiwan's superheroes

[Ghost who Walks]

I'm working on an idea to have the conflict between China and Taiwan IMC.

 

To make it interesting, the war/conflict will be started by Taiwan.

 

The conflict will start with rebellions in Hong Kong, followed by the landing of Taiwanese troops. (Possibly with metahuman help)

 

Taiwan may have connections to various "criminal" groups in the world. IRL, China considers them criminals after all.

 

China already has enough characters in previous publicatioons that I feel comfortable using them.

 

Taiwan Notes:

~You have a country not recognized by the UN.

~A country founded by a defeated army.

~A country regarded as a "renegade province" by a nuclear power.

~A country with elections, conscription, a fairly large army (Around 270,000)

~This place is crying for a team of stalwarts to rule...er defend it!

 

Place any ideas/comments below:

[assault]

In my Champions Universe, VIPER began in the 1950s as an anti-Communist guerrilla force in southern China. They essentially united drug warlords, some of the Triads, and bits of the CIA. They went global after the Vietnam war.

 

Even if you use a canonical version of VIPER, some Nests might have originated in this way.

 

More generally, Taiwan might have inherited a lot of mystics from the mainland, as well as the obligatory martial artists and so on. They might have got quite a bit of technology from the US and Japan, as well as anything they developed themselves. The tech exchange would be fairly low-key these days, of course, but originally it would have been entirely in the open.

 

So, Taiwan could have lots and lots of supers of one shade or another. Unfortunately, not all of them would be _nice_. Many of them might have originated in remnants of warlord and criminal organisations smashed by the Communists, while, of course, not all mystics are benevolent...

 

It could be quite a hotspot. Just like Hong Kong. See HK cinema for further details.

 

Alan

[Ghost who Walks]

Wow, assault, your ideas are almost the same as how I was going to do it. Right down to the anti-communist bias of S. China VIPER.

 

I was thinking of doing a couple of Taiwanese mystics, maybe in some kind of Chinese version of Circle. Or maybe the Taiwanese army has a magical unit, where everyone can do the astral body bit...

 

In any case, I was looking t both sides having a huge number of martial artist/commando types. That way the scenario climax can be a massive kung fu battle in streets of Hong Kong.

[Hermit]

I can imagine a lot of Hong Kong Super heroes who refused to bow to Communist China when the city was handed over fleeing to Tawain.

[assault]

I suppose I had better point out the "knee-jerk anti-Americanism" in making VIPER a CIA backed (and in part _created_) outfit in its early days...

 

I got the idea from rereading first edition Champions. It just seemed appropriate to connect Green Dragon and VIPER. I made "Dr Lirby Koo" (Dr Kirby Liu in my universe) the founding head of VIPER. But, of course, he's dead, isn't he?

 

It also connects with Crusader's origin quite nicely, too.

 

I also have a bunch of VIPER/Triad types having been moving into Australia since the mid-90s. This provides an alternative source of opponents to the Eeevil New Zealanders.

 

And the homegrown Australian baddies of course...

 

Alan

[freakboy6117]

well firstly lets get this one out of the way.

 

taiwans female flag suit

 

taiwan maiden or should the be maiden taiwan.

 

if you wnat taiwan to gwo to war with big bad china and its 1 billion plus population taiwan is going to need soem really heavy hitters firstly someone who can genrate a force wall the size of taiwan to protect against all those conventional missiles china has pointed towards taiwan.

then you need a sevral high speed flying energy blasters for all those migs, a ultra world class super genius to supply all the troops with power suits and energy weapons to cope with chinas huge conscript army, finally you need super agents and a few powerful telepaths to help crush the chinese conventional forces and of course then youve got to match the probably huge chinese metahuman forces fortyunatly i think a lot of them may want to over throw the current goverment.

 

combined with a range of lower powered supers bricks that can smash tanks, battle field force field projectors that sort of thing oh and a japanese weather manipulator called kamikazi or teh divine wind just in case china does attack the chinese re always being defeated by bad weather.

 

personally i liek it wmore of china finally deceides to invade thinking with there metahiuman forces they will be more than a match only for taiwan to unvail its advanced armed forces and crush the chinsese before returning and ousting the communists especially as half the chinese metas switch sides.

[Redmenace]

Considering Taiwan's original real world origins as well as your Viper tie in, I'd imagine that they'd HAVE to utilise mercenaries. There population base vs China's is just small to have enough supers to stand a chance against even a conventional force.

 

Of course having Viperia on your side could make some serious differencebut I'd think they'd employ every available supervillain in the CKC.

 

The Warlord or Dr. D might even be behind it.

[Supreme Serpent]

Originally posted by assault

I made "Dr Lirby Koo" (Dr Kirby Liu in my universe) the founding head of VIPER. But, of course, he's dead, isn't he?

Alan

 

Hmm, you know with a further slight switch, "Dr. Kirby Lee" would make a nice tribute name for a villain. May have to use that sometime...

[Badger]

Yeah I think it would be best for a China attack Taiwan than vice-versa. Probably a few rogue American superheroes that were remnants of the Cold War helping Taiwan would add in the mix.

[assault]

Originally posted by Redmenace

There population base vs China's is just small to have enough supers to stand a chance against even a conventional force.

 

I agree that they would use mercs, but I don't agree with your statement above.

 

You are assuming that supers appear at a rate related to population. In addition, you are assuming that no individual supers are powerful enough to significantly distort the outcome.

 

If you look at the model I postulated earlier, Taiwan received a disproportionate share of China's supers. In particular, it got a whole bunch of mystics.

 

It also received a disproportionate share of martial arts masters and had disproportionate access to high technology, but the mystics are probably the key. The other areas can be matched, or exceeded by virtue of numbers, but it is a _lot_ harder to churn out serious mages, particularly if your government views them as a political threat.

 

And Taiwan probably had the lion's share of China's mages...

 

Of course, some of the ones in Hong Kong, Macau or elsewhere might be willing to support the Chinese government, but numbers certainly wouldn't be on their side. (Hmm, Macau seems like a good place for a mage to live...).

 

With a superiority in mages, Taiwan should be easily able to compensate for its weakness in conventional forces: just whistle up a few "things".

 

Just picture the mass fight scenes, as the People's Liberation Army gets all Kung Fu against hordes of Chinese demons... Mmm, cheesy.

 

I guess we need an answer for: so how were the Communists able to win the first time around? That's not too difficult - their opponents were disunited. Twelve mages struggling against each other are a lot easier to deal with than twelve mages working together.

 

Alan

[assault]

Originally posted by Supreme Serpent

Hmm, you know with a further slight switch, "Dr. Kirby Lee" would make a nice tribute name for a villain. May have to use that sometime...

 

Yes, it's good, isn't it?

 

(Alan pencils in the change to his universe.)

 

I always wondered what the early Champions writers who came up with "Dr Lirby Koo" were thinking. Very odd. No doubt there was a "you had to be there" story involved.

 

Alan

[Ghost who Walks]

Keep up the ideas guys, this has been a great help. My original idea of a couple sessions is now mushrooming into a mini-campaign.

(long quotes, and stuff follow)

 

Originally posted by Hermit

I can imagine a lot of Hong Kong Super heroes who refused to bow to Communist China when the city was handed over fleeing to Tawain.

Good thought.

 

Originally posted by assault

I suppose I had better point out the "knee-jerk anti-Americanism" in making VIPER a CIA backed (and in part _created_) outfit in its early days...

Well, IMC, a character has finally figured out that VIPER is run by a stranded reptilian alien who plans to hand the Earth over to te aliens. (yes, again with the aliens) VIPER was founded around a century ago, IMC. But they were under a ifferent name then. I prefer to use the NSA for my evil intelligence agency, they are more scary.

 

Originally posted by freakboy6117

well firstly lets get this one out of the way.

 

taiwans female flag suit

 

taiwan maiden or should the be maiden taiwan.

 

if you wnat taiwan to gwo to war with big bad china and its 1 billion plus population taiwan is going to need soem really heavy hitters firstly someone who can genrate a force wall the size of taiwan to protect against all those conventional missiles china has pointed towards taiwan.

then you need a sevral high speed flying energy blasters for all those migs, a ultra world class super genius to supply all the troops with power suits and energy weapons to cope with chinas huge conscript army, finally you need super agents and a few powerful telepaths to help crush the chinese conventional forces and of course then youve got to match the probably huge chinese metahuman forces fortyunatly i think a lot of them may want to over throw the current goverment.

 

combined with a range of lower powered supers bricks that can smash tanks, battle field force field projectors that sort of thing oh and a japanese weather manipulator called kamikazi or teh divine wind just in case china does attack the chinese re always being defeated by bad weather.

 

personally i liek it wmore of china finally deceides to invade thinking with there metahiuman forces they will be more than a match only for taiwan to unvail its advanced armed forces and crush the chinsese before returning and ousting the communists especially as half the chinese metas switch sides.

All sounds good. I haven't had Dr. Destroyer do much lately, he could sell them the armored suits. VIPER is going to commit all 100 of the "Boa Constrictor Clones".

 

IMC, China got bombed by aliens last year. A lot of their infrastructure was damaged. It was in reprisal for the murder of the aliens ambassador during the Warring States Period. (300 BC). Aliens had long memories. They then liberated Tibet, rebuilt a couple temples to Buddha, and left.

 

The only problem with Taiwan getting invaded is that I have already done the "defend the nation" scenario several times before. Also, I want to have a scenario where commandoes attempt to blow up the Three Gorges Dam.

 

Originally posted by Redmenace

Considering Taiwan's original real world origins as well as your Viper tie in, I'd imagine that they'd HAVE to utilise mercenaries. There population base vs China's is just small to have enough supers to stand a chance against even a conventional force.

 

Of course having Viperia on your side could make some serious differencebut I'd think they'd employ every available supervillain in the CKC.

 

The Warlord or Dr. D might even be behind it.

Taiwan's general strategy is simple, they want to unbalence and discredit Red China in the eyes of the world. They believe if they can occupy part of Southern China, and get the support of the people, that they can get recognition from other nations as the true China.

 

I hadn't considered using the Warlord until you mentioned it, he would be an excellent candidate.

 

Originally posted by Badger

...Probably a few rogue American superheroes that were remnants of the Cold War helping Taiwan would add in the mix.

Good thought.

 

To clarify. The main theme of the campaign is about the destruction caused by war, how ambition, greed, and vengence factor into political disputes/war. In part Taiwan's invasion will be motivated by corporate greed and the desire to reclaim past glories. China will be presented as a combination of heroic peasants standing up against capitalism, while their leaders attempt to profit from the situation.

 

Mystics will be a factor. The characters are probably going to be involved when the reigning sorceress supreme (who is also a high ranking communist official) asks for their help.

 

As a side note, Taiwan was part of the Japanese Empire before WWII (for a few decades anyway) . Perhaps something mystical is there that the Japanese used in the past?

 

Will have to do something about the nukes/chemical weapons both sides have. Maybe a powerful entity will show up to take them away, like Taurus of the Zodiac (4th edition).

 

Macau would be a good mage hideout, or maye I can make it Dr. Destroyers new island. Its mostly casinos, I think. Perfect size for a villain "nation".

 

Originally posted by assault

Just picture the mass fight scenes, as the People's Liberation Army gets all Kung Fu against hordes of Chinese demons... Mmm, cheesy.

My stock in trade. Was also thinking of giving Taiwan a couple of dragons . I remember one from the original VIPER book.

 

Anybody have ideas for character names/powers?

(Have to use that Taiwan Maiden...and Dr. Kirby Lee, President of Taiwan...)

[assault]

Originally posted by Ghost who Walks My stock in trade. Was also thinking of giving Taiwan a couple of dragons . I remember one from the original VIPER book.[/b]

 

I was going to suggest dragons. Of course, it's quite likely that some of them may be on the other side, too.

 

It depends how you handle them. I could see certain supernatural entities (dragon or otherwise) having sided with the Communists during the civil wars and foreign invasions.

 

Their power levels could vary a lot too. A real lot. (hint hint)

 

Alan

[Redmenace]

RE Nukes, since you are already planning a cammando strike against the three Gorges dam why not launch a preemptive strike against China's nuclear forces as well?

 

1.) Unlike the vast arsenals of the US and former USSR, China has very few Nukes, an estimate in US News and World Report last year suggested that the number was as low as twenty.

 

2.) Considering the Chinese actions against the student demonstrators at Tianneman and against Tibet, I don't see anything that suggests they wouldn't employ them should the situation be desperate enough.

 

2a.) As an aside, you might glean Taiwan's supernames, chr.s and motivations from an amalgam of China's enemies:

 

Tibet, Zen mystics with ephemeral names like Walking Dream, Dancing Phoenix, Yeti for an animalistic brick.

 

India, Sandwiched between two Nuclear powers and desperately missing the Tibettan buffer between it and China might persuade them to send some "advisors"- Indian God names Shiva, Kali, Ganesh, I believe also that India is believed to be the originator of the nascent hth martial arts. Maybe there are two thousand year old unbelievably skilled mystics from here as well.

 

Old Russia, Certainly plenty of bad blood here, some cold warrior might join Taiwan's side on an ideological basis or simply been forced into mercenary work. Durak from CKC comes to mind, either in that name or as another.

[Badger]

You mentioned that Tibet had been recently liberated. Some of the citizens could still have motives for revenge after years of oppression. Isnt this where the Shaolin fighting monks are supposed to come from? Could put in a few of these for Taiwan. Maybe an alien or two you mentioned who still want to make life difficult for the Chinese helping Taiwan. What were those aliens like? Could also see another alien race except these are enemies of the ifrst alien race helping China just for spite.

[Badger]

I ask what those aliens were like because. Did they have any type of superpowers or were they all just extremely advanced in tech. Just to help me get a little background. A second alien race could make for a type of Kree-Skrull war thing. And this would actually make for a similar type of thing like the Seven Years-French& Indian War. Where you fight in space (this versions Europe) along with Earth (this versions America with help from the natives).

 

 

[lemming]

Here's a list of villians Sam Bell wrote up:

• The Purifying Fire of Communism, consuming the decadent regimes of the past and lighting the way towards a brighter future for all workers
  
• The great people of China, reaching the Peak of Human Achievement through correct application of Marxist principles
  
• The Winds of Change, sweeping through the world, awakening every member of the proletariat to the great message of international communism
  
• Correct Thought, guided by the wisdom of Man, free from the decadent weakness of the west
  
• Neverending Progressive Movement towards the glorious goal of worldwide worker solidarity
  
• The Iron Resolve of the working class, united against Western Imperialism
  

 

I'm in the midst of entering them into Hero Designer since there may be a china adventure in my game.

[assault]

Originally posted by Badger

You mentioned that Tibet had been recently liberated. Some of the citizens could still have motives for revenge after years of oppression. Isnt this where the Shaolin fighting monks are supposed to come from?

 

No. The Shaolin temple is in China. They don't seem to be from the Tibetan strand of Buddhism, either.

 

This is from a quick Google search, so be warned...

 

Alan

[Ghost who Walks]

So many ideas...

Originally posted by assault

I was going to suggest dragons. Of course, it's quite likely that some of them may be on the other side, too.

 

It depends how you handle them. I could see certain supernatural entities (dragon or otherwise) having sided with the Communists during the civil wars and foreign invasions.

 

Their power levels could vary a lot too. A real lot. (hint hint)

 

Alan

I have Dragons in as magical alien refugees from another dimension. (fleeing from a war). Allowed to settle on Earth in 5,000 BC by the Sorceror Supreme, they were used by him as peacekeepers to try and spread civilization throughout the world (beginning of cities, agricultural, etc.) Unfortunately, something in the energies of this dimenison is different from their home (lower levels of magic). Because of this, offspring of the immigrant dragons are often stillborn, mutated, or insane (reason for the different types of dragons in mythology). Believing the Sorceror Supreme betrayed them, the dragons went their own way in the world, where they were frequently slain by man.

 

Yeah, I can put a couple in China, on both sides. Or maybe I'll just have one whose been sleeping for a century wake up.

 

Originally posted by Redmenace

RE Nukes, since you are already planning a cammando strike against the three Gorges dam why not launch a preemptive strike against China's nuclear forces as well?

Good Idea.

 

Originally posted by Badger

You mentioned that Tibet had been recently liberated. Some of the citizens could still have motives for revenge after years of oppression. Isnt this where the Shaolin fighting monks are supposed to come from? Could put in a few of these for Taiwan. Maybe an alien or two you mentioned who still want to make life difficult for the Chinese helping Taiwan. What were those aliens like? Could also see another alien race except these are enemies of the ifrst alien race helping China just for spite.

Methane breathers who had been brought into space by another race, who they then rebelled against. They were few in number, but had an extremely advanced force of robots/manufacturing. They left behind their new ambassador to watch over the Earth, who is named "Methanon" (Take Mechanon, and give him the disadvantage: Hates all Oxygen-Breathing Life") I could see him helping, probably with some of his computer viruses.

 

Originally posted by Badger

I ask what those aliens were like because. Did they have any type of superpowers or were they all just extremely advanced in tech. Just to help me get a little background. A second alien race could make for a type of Kree-Skrull war thing. And this would actually make for a similar type of thing like the Seven Years-French& Indian War. Where you fight in space (this versions Europe) along with Earth (this versions America with help from the natives).

The Methane Breathers had powers, but no physical contact occured between them and humans. They relied on their tech a lot. For a couple of SciFi boks with the plotline of "Modern Earth gets sucked into an alien war" try "A Hymn before Battle", by John Ringo, and "A Call to Arms", by Alan Dean Foster. (I've been running the alien wars plotline for some time now)

 

Originally posted by lemming

Here's a list of villians Sam Bell wrote up:

• The Purifying Fire of Communism, consuming the decadent regimes of the past and lighting the way towards a brighter future for all workers
  
• The great people of China, reaching the Peak of Human Achievement through correct application of Marxist principles
  
• The Winds of Change, sweeping through the world, awakening every member of the proletariat to the great message of international communism
  
• Correct Thought, guided by the wisdom of Man, free from the decadent weakness of the west
  
• Neverending Progressive Movement towards the glorious goal of worldwide worker solidarity
  
• The Iron Resolve of the working class, united against Western Imperialism
  

 

I'm in the midst of entering them into Hero Designer since

there may be a china adventure in my game.

I have a file containing some of the characters he did, are these in another location?

[Plucky]

Being from Taiwan (so very long ago), I couldn't stop laughing when I first read through the premise of this scenario. As friends of mine from China are so fond of saying, "If everyone in China spits on Taiwan at the same time, we'd drown everyone there."

 

It is so unlikely for Taiwan to simply attack China out of the blue unless Taiwan is sure that 1) it can win in the end, or 2) it can hide behind U.S. after the initial fight is over. A number of countries (like Japan, U.S.) have vested interest in keeping Taiwan semi-independent and would work their political powers to stablize the situation - and punish Taiwan - as quickly as possible.

 

Incidentally, Taiwan has a number of nuclear powerplants and is really quite a small island. Therefore, any wide-area strikes on Taiwan could potentially doom the south-eastern (more prosperous) part of China as well. From the perspective of actual ground assault, there are only so many coastal part of Taiwan able to accommodate ships. Obviously, when considering superpowers, these factors may not be all that important.

 

During the cultural revolution in China, they really did a number on many of the scholars and other educated landowners. I would have expected most of their supers to be more physically oriented or scientifically oriented, not mystically...

 

Plucky

[lemming]

Originally posted by Ghost who Walks

I have a file containing some of the characters he did, are these in another location?

These are from his SE Asia Protectors game. I've got a few of his old binders. You've probably got a pack of his conversions of Marvel & DC characters.

[Ghost who Walks]

Thanks for the input Plucky, its the implausability of the scenario that appeals to me. Its the ultimate underdog scenario.

 

I'm looking at any mystics that China has as being ones who wither "converted" to the cause, or ones who are from out of the country and are concerned about the loss of life.

 

I'll probably post the complete scenario outline, once I get it finished. Hopefully, it will make more sense then. I'm still collecting ideas and brainstorming.

 

[edit]

Originally posted by lemming

These are from his SE Asia Protectors game. I've got a few of his old binders. You've probably got a pack of his conversions of Marvel & DC characters.

Yep. Its no big deal, I have most of the China Heroes already done, from a previous scenario. Taiwan is the next stage.

[Badger]

I did some reaseach a couple of years ago on countries out of curiosity. China has 1.2 billion population while Taiwan was something like 20 million. But I got my info from this website:

 

http://www.infoplease.com/countries.html.

 

I think it is still up so you could try it. They also have other info other than poulation like type of government, countries leader, a brief history etc.

[Siberian Tiger]

You might wish to take a look at some of Humphrey Hawksley's novels as a number of these focus on the political situation in SE Asia - mainly conflict / competition between China and India but Taiwan, Nepal, Myanamar and others all get drawn in. The obvious ones to read are Dragonstrike, Dragonfire and The Third World War.

 

He has a website at:

http://www.hhawksley.co.uk/default.asp

[Ghost who Walks]

Thanks for the links guys, I also found this one:

http://www.emeraldesigns.com/matchup/military.shtml

 

Depending on how detailed I want to get into the military equipment angle. I already decide I will have someone secretly upgrade Taiwan's military (probably the Warlord, so he can at last be in a scenario)