Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

[Supreme]

Cometeer, please do not read past this point!

 

Okay, he's gone. Here's the deal. The villain for my upcoming Marvel Age game is a Dr. Doom homage named "Dr. Omenus," self-appointed ruler of Kirbania. He's a guy who uses technology salvaged from a crashed alien space-ship to simulate various sorcerous effects. His "lackeys" are technologically-simulate monsters, such as vampires, werewolves, etc. The underlying idea is that the crashed space-ship leaks all kinds of radiation, nanites (or 60s equivalent thereof), ooze, etc. that creates these things. Thus, the Kirbanian monsters are actually the basis for all those legends.

 

Now I can think of (pseudo-)scientific reasons behind most of the monstrous effects. However, there are a few I can't, like:

[*]Why a werewolf would be caused to change only during a full-moon

[*]Any way that vampires could be repulsed by holy items.

Naturally, I'm going to have to take some liberties with some of these legends, if for no other reason that to spring some surprises on the players ("What do you mean wooden stakes don't kill them???").

 

Also, if any one wants to suggest Eastern European folkloric monsters other than the run-of-the-mill vampires, werewolves, etc. that'd be great.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

for the werewolf the optical freqency or gravitational force produced by a full moon creates a feed back loop which causes an uncontrolled transformation.

 

teh holy symbol bit could be a psycological problem created by the change producing an overwelming fear of the symbols with teh most meaning for the victim would be fun you could have a modern vampire who is repulsed by the coke logo or the nike swoosh.

 

 

as for other brands of european monsters you have teh trolls goblins and other forest folk.

[Blue]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

----Why a werewolf would be caused to change only during a full-moon

On the home planet of these "nanites" (or whatever), the moon is out all the time. It is part of their natural nocturnal existence. It is the moon that awakens them nightly; Here the full moon only happens so often and so for the rest of the time the nanites are in slumber.

 

----Any way that vampires could be repulsed by holy items.

The first vampires were thought to be demons. Their kind were hunted down by religious zealots bearing such symbols. It's ancestral learning passed down through their lineage that anyone bearing these things is to be feared. (Okay, that wasn't so good, but I'm at a loss for this one too.)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

Both are just myths. Vampires are not affected by holy symbols, and werewolves change whenever they want.

 

More interesting question? Why would Vampires need human blood? The Nanites need the trace elements of iron in human blood to power themselves.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

James Blish wrote what may be the best scientific explanation for werewolves in his short story "There Shall Be No Darkness." (1950) It was reprinted in Bill Pronzini's anthology Werewolves! in 1980, which you might be able to find at a library.

[Supreme]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

Both are just myths. Vampires are not affected by holy symbols, and werewolves change whenever they want.

 

More interesting question? Why would Vampires need human blood? The Nanites need the trace elements of iron in human blood to power themselves.

That's a good one. I was going to say that the drinking of arterial blood solves some of the conservation of energy problems that vampires, and any other super-human, have. They drink blood full of oxygenated iron and glucose, and all the other nutritional goodies (not to mention the adrenaline and epinephrine) so their calories are already prepped and ready to go. But your idea works well too.

[Supreme]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

for the werewolf the optical freqency or gravitational force produced by a full moon creates a feed back loop which causes an uncontrolled transformation...

Not bad (though the Moon's gravitational force doesn't change during the full Moon). Could be an intentional control trigger too. I plan for each of the minions to have various control vs. independant thought issues (the theme of this villain is control: political, personal, social, etc.).

 

Vampires are very powerful and very intellectually capable, but are the most likely to turn on you (as Omenus will learn when he turns the girl friend of one of the PCs into a vampire, his "Immortal Beloved"). Werewolves are very powerful, but hard as heck to control so you make them only turn at select times (the goop that they carry in their blood streams will, of course, change color dramatically on the full moon giving the PCs their signal). So they'll change at the precise moment of the full Moon (I've got a chart) and the effect will last for four hours or so (give or take an EGO roll).

 

I was going to have the next set of minions be zombies who are the least powerful, but the easiest to control (unfortunately for Omenus when the PCs discover the transmission frequency for the commands). Trouble is, this is a game set seven years before "Night of the Living Dead" so...

[Whitewings]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

I was going to have the next set of minions be zombies who are the least powerful' date=' but the easiest to control (unfortunately for Omenus when the PCs discover the transmission frequency for the commands). Trouble is, this is a game set seven years before "Night of the Living Dead" so...[/quote']

 

So what? Zombies legends predate the film by centuries; in fact, the first legends of flesh-eating walking dead were the earliest of the vampire legends. And I do like the idea of vampires being repulsed by whatever symbol they had the strongest feelings about in life. "The power of Coke compels you!"

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

You could pull some BS about the wavelength (not sure on the physics here) of the light - maybe the nanites have receptors that only "charge" from that specific length that bounces off the moon from the sun, and all the extra wavelengths from dirct sunlight "confuse" the nanites.

 

Vampires is probably easier - maybe it's not the holy symbols themselves that do it, but the materiel that it's made of. Holy symbols used to be made of silver - the vampires nanites run on chemicals that have a destructive reaction with silver. Thus they burn when touched by silver. So a wooden cross will do nothing - but a silver pentagram will. Of course, they'll still avoid things made of silver because they know it will burn them - they're just not compelled to (the same way the WoD vampires avoid fire).

[Supreme]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

So what? Zombies legends predate the film by centuries; in fact' date=' the first legends of flesh-eating walking dead were the earliest of the vampire legends. And I do like the idea of vampires being repulsed by whatever symbol they had the strongest feelings about in life. "The power of Coke compels you!"[/quote']

Well, the way I do the period gaming in Champs is that I have the game reflect the story-telling conventions of the time. Thus, even though zombie-legends pre-date "Night of the Living Dead" zombies themselves never appeared in comics before then because zombies were not a part of the cultural consciousness at that point. And pre-Romero zombies did not eat living flesh. They just did whatever their masters told them to do.

 

I suppose I could use them based upon the older zombie films like "White Zombie." But I don't know if those were very popular.

 

And I notice everyone thinks that modern vampires should be compelled by Nike and Coke symbols. Thing is, Coke and Nike don't really mean much to us outside of consideration for soft-drink and shoe choices. We would need a modern (as of 1961) symbol of right and wrong.

 

"By the power of Eisenhower, I command you!"

[Supreme]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

You could pull some BS about the wavelength (not sure on the physics here) of the light - maybe the nanites have receptors that only "charge" from that specific length that bounces off the moon from the sun, and all the extra wavelengths from dirct sunlight "confuse" the nanites.

 

Vampires is probably easier - maybe it's not the holy symbols themselves that do it, but the materiel that it's made of. Holy symbols used to be made of silver - the vampires nanites run on chemicals that have a destructive reaction with silver. Thus they burn when touched by silver. So a wooden cross will do nothing - but a silver pentagram will. Of course, they'll still avoid things made of silver because they know it will burn them - they're just not compelled to (the same way the WoD vampires avoid fire).

I like the silver, but not the reflected light. Light has two applicable attributes here: intensity and wavelength. All light that you can see is in the same wavelength range: visible light. How bright it is is determined by the intensity, which is to say the total amount of photons.

 

All light coming from the Moon is just reflected from the Sun. There's no fundamental difference except for intensity, which is much lower. Thing is, if I say the werewolf chemical (I'm going to use "strange chemicals" btw, instead of nanites, as it's more period-apprpriate) activates at lower intensities, then what's to stop it at lower intensities during the other phases of the Moon, or in a room with no windows? Saying the exact combination of frequencies and intensity of a night with a Full Moon could work...

[Whitewings]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

And I notice everyone thinks that modern vampires should be compelled by Nike and Coke symbols. Thing is, Coke and Nike don't really mean much to us outside of consideration for soft-drink and shoe choices. We would need a modern (as of 1961) symbol of right and wrong.

 

"By the power of Eisenhower, I command you!"

 

Or perhaps they're repelled by stovepipes hats? Lincoln being an icon of good. Or even better, since this is eastern Europe and you need something period, Superman or Batman. And of course there will be local legendary champions of good with their own symbols.

 

For werewolves, maybe it's not the light of the full moon but the sight of it. This also opens the door to inducing changes by use of a planetarium.

[The Mad GM]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

It may sound a little non-politically-correct, but bear with me. If you're gaming group is too immature, you may want to skip this one.

 

Menstrual cycles are basically 28 days, and the lunar tie-in is frankly debatable (I personally think it is a coincidence, and it is also highly variable). It is proven that men have a similar cycle, though miniscule in comparison. Let's assume that the werewolf juice forces a specific cycle on a person, based on when they were first bit, and that cycle just happens to be (or was designed to be) the same as the moon. Now, if someone only expresses the agent in their saliva when they are 'in-cycle', then someone they bite will also start out at the same point in the cycle. Also, studies show that women that live together tend to menstruate at the same time, which means that subconciously these cuycles are self-adjusting. Given the pack nature of wolves, and theoretically werewolves, the same thing may happen. So essentially, they turn at the full moon because:

A - the first person was subjected to the serum on a full moon;

B - All his 'children' inherited a cycle that matches the lunar cycle because they were started at the same point in the cycle;

C - They all hang together for socio-psychological reasons, and the symbolism reinforces it subconciously, blah, blah, blah...

[Supreme]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

Or perhaps they're repelled by stovepipes hats? Lincoln being an icon of good. Or even better, since this is eastern Europe and you need something period, Superman or Batman. And of course there will be local legendary champions of good with their own symbols.

 

For werewolves, maybe it's not the light of the full moon but the sight of it. This also opens the door to inducing changes by use of a planetarium.

Now there's an idea! But I wouldn't use Superman and Batman, but symbols of the Justice Brigade, the Golden Age team of the campaign which takes place before this one! Eeeeexcellent! And the idea is that such symbols trigger neurochemicals in our brains which, in combination with the vamp-chemicals, causes some kind of reaction which sets off all the pain-receptors or something. This could, of course, lead to finding the cure.

 

As for the werewolves, I don't mind opening that door, but I'm not wild about the sight or specific light frequencies of the full moon. This means that they can force the wolves to change back with a darkness field. Isn't there any other phenomena consistently associated with the full moon?

[The Mad GM]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

Okay, vampires and holy symbols:

 

The big villain is a control freak, and religious convictions are strong. He simply used the symbol of the cross as the 'control' during brainwashing. Ever see "A Clockwork Orange"? The main character was brainwashed, and the control was classical musical (a specific composer, can't recall who). At the end he is tortured by someone who figures this out.Essentially, it is psychosomatic.

 

You must then assume that part of the conditioning of a vampire is that if they don't kill someone, they must subject them to the same sort of conditioning. It creates a sort of psychic/biological computer virus: You brainwash someone to teach him how to brainwash others, aided of course by the hypnotic powers vampires have. This might explain why it takes several bites to transmit it: It several visits to impose the brainwashing on the individual. Anyone that doesn't take to the conditioning is finished off with the third bite rather than let live, and so it appears that it takes three bites to become a vampire.

[BishopofB&W]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

Can Kirbian vampires change into bats and wolves?

 

The werewolves could be infiltrator/shock troops. The nanobots are programmed to trigger the change at least once a month to maintain the "friendly" environment through cell modification. The full moon is just a convenient marker. If Dr. Omenus needs them sooner, he can issue a "talisman" to trigger the change as needed. As suggested above, silver reacts violently with the nanites, destroying them in large numbers and hindering their ability to heal injuries until they have replicated themselves enough.

 

Vampires (from an idea from Saberhagen's The Dracula Tape, could be powered by a difficult-to-detect type of solar radiation, but fall into a dormant state while metabolizing the energy. Blood is a catalyst for the process. They sleep during the day to avoid the rest of the solar radiation, which overloads their "batteries" and destroys them. The holy symbols of Earth bear a remarkable resemblance to visual cues that the aliens incorporated into their servitor-creation technology as a fail-safe. If a vampire sees or comes close to a holy symbol, the nanite programs will recognize it enough to inflict punishment in the form of weakness, pain, or even tissue destruction. Can't think of anything for holy water.

[Whitewings]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

As for the werewolves' date=' I don't mind opening that door, but I'm not wild about the sight or specific light frequencies of the full moon. This means that they can force the wolves to change back with a darkness field. Isn't there any other phenomena consistently associated with the full moon?[/quote']

 

Not necessarily. In fact, it's perfectly reasonable to have different triggers for the change to wolf and the change to human. The light of the sun (which in 1961 can't be faked, at least not easily) might be the trigger for the change to human. So much for that problem.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

Okay, let's see what we can come up with:

 

Vampires and holy symbols: bear in mind that some occultists believe that the warding effect of the cross is derived from its resemblance to the ankh, a much older symbol. Now, assuming that nanites are part of the melange that produces these occult creatures, such symbols as the ankh, pentagram etc. may resemble the symbology of the aliens who created them, so that the nanites recognize them as partial command-codes and attempt to respond to them, causing malfunctions that disrupt their hosts. If your PCs are able to discover or decipher these codes, they could shut down or even control these monsters.

 

Werewolves and the lunar cycle: the alien ship that crashed on Earth had a mate on the Moon, another ship or even an automated base, which is still sending signals attempting to access its terrestrial partner. That ship or base is light-powered, and its signals are strongest when the Moon is fully illuminated by the Sun. Certainly, if and when Dr. Omenus discovers the existence of this other facility, he'll be eager to reach the Moon and attempt to uncover its secrets.

 

Lesser supernatural monsters: how about another type of animated corpse, the mummy. That's also pretty traditional, and certainly part of the public consciousness in the 1960's thanks to various vintage horror movies. Heck, one of them even appeared in the Jonny Quest cartoon.

[Supreme]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

...Werewolves and the lunar cycle: the alien ship that crashed on Earth had a mate on the Moon' date=' another ship or even an automated base, which is still sending signals attempting to access its terrestrial partner. That ship or base is light-powered, and its signals are strongest when the Moon is fully illuminated by the Sun. Certainly, if and when Dr. Omenus discovers the existence of this other facility, he'll be eager to reach the Moon and attempt to uncover its secrets...QUOTE']

Excellent!!! That really works for me. I could even see it as crystals that the ship scattered all over the moon which do something to the Sun when it reflects it back to Earth. The crystals are spread over a wide area. Omenus will have to use some kind of energy beam-thingie to collect them together (can't have super-folk walking on the Moon before Armstrong!).

 

Good suggestions, guys. Keep in mind that I'm dumping the nanites in favor of "strange chemicals." Also keep in mind that the aliens didn't intend to create the monsters, its just a bizarre mutating effect from the stuff leaking from the ship.

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

(can't have super-folk walking on the Moon before Armstrong!).

 

I don't see why not. They've already walked on a bunch of other planets before the boys at NASA have had a chance.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

No nanites, huh? "Strange chemicals" instead. This is turning into quite a challenge!

 

All right, how about we take a bit of inspiration from Ghostbusters II? These chemicals are "psychoactive," responding to the energies of living minds. In the case of humans, however, it's not conscious thought or exercise of will that they react to, but the emotions and instinctive drives of the subconscious. This is why the chemicals tend to produce animalistic monsters - they're responding to our darker impulses.

 

However, the chemicals also respond to equally primal emotions of a positive nature - like the power of true faith - causing a pain reaction in the mutants proximate to them. Thus the effect of holy water or symbols on these monsters isn't due to their intrinsic nature, but the strength of their wielders' faith.

 

With this scenario, it is more difficult to justify any effect from these items when not actively used by someone of faith. It's possible that they may retain some residual energy for a time after use; or the vampires et al may just have learned to fear them automatically, not recognizing the need for an empowering mind behind them.

 

Does that sound workable?

[Brandi]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

OkayThe big villain is a control freak' date=' and religious convictions are strong. He simply used the symbol of the cross as the 'control' during brainwashing. Ever see "A Clockwork Orange"? The main character was brainwashed, and the control was classical musical (a specific composer, can't recall who).[/quote']

 

The old Ludwig Van, droog.

 

Actually, in the book all classical music upsets him. Basically, the Ludovico treatment was an attempt to use negative reinforcement to condition Alex against violent acts-- the side effect was that anything that stimulated his emotions strongly (a hot girl, for instance, or his beloved classical music) made him ill.

[Supreme]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

No nanites, huh? "Strange chemicals" instead. This is turning into quite a challenge!

 

All right, how about we take a bit of inspiration from Ghostbusters II? These chemicals are "psychoactive," responding to the energies of living minds. In the case of humans, however, it's not conscious thought or exercise of will that they react to, but the emotions and instinctive drives of the subconscious. This is why the chemicals tend to produce animalistic monsters - they're responding to our darker impulses.

 

However, the chemicals also respond to equally primal emotions of a positive nature - like the power of true faith - causing a pain reaction in the mutants proximate to them. Thus the effect of holy water or symbols on these monsters isn't due to their intrinsic nature, but the strength of their wielders' faith.

 

With this scenario, it is more difficult to justify any effect from these items when not actively used by someone of faith. It's possible that they may retain some residual energy for a time after use; or the vampires et al may just have learned to fear them automatically, not recognizing the need for an empowering mind behind them.

 

Does that sound workable?

It does and it doesn't. Though it would probably be a bit more period-appropriate, I prefer the neuro-transmitter feedback I mentioned earlier to the "you have to have faith, Mr. Vincent." I know it seems like I'm being arbitrary, because I am, but I've just seen and read too many "powered by your emotions" stories. So the reaction is powered by the personality of the vampire itself, not by the cross-weilder. Also, my way I get to have the vampires cringe at the symbols of the Golden Age Justice Brigade -- something I know the players will love (an adventure to be kicked off at the beginning after the unveiling of statues of the Justice Brigade).

 

I'm also, definitely going to have Silver be counter-agent to the "strange chemicals" ("Omenium?"). These chemicals would actually be a class of chemicals with a common component that Omenus will repeatedly try to isolate with a certain amount of disaster each time. The first time, Omenus will accidentally "kill" himself and come back. Omenus is actually a sci-fi Lich. This requires him to go to various lengths to keep himself alive. It also allows him to appear to "die" several times only to return later in a different form.

 

Another time, when an experiment goes awry, he is forced to flush it all down the river (the "Lieber" river in honor of Kirby's partner, Stan Lee). Unfortunately it doesn't die, but Omenus will get the idea that he should call upon the super-heroes to stop it and see how tough they are.

[Supreme]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

Can Kirbian vampires change into bats and wolves?...

I'd have to say no to that and make the Kirbian vamps more Whedon-esque.

[assault]

Re: Need Help with Some Villain "Lackeys"

 

Isn't there any other phenomena consistently associated with the full moon?

 

Time?

 

The nanites reproduce on a 28 day cycle. They are only present in big enough numbers to trigger the change for a few days (nights) a cycle. They trigger at night because of some weird light response, or just because they have a 24 hour activity cycle within their 28 day lifespan. Or it might be a 25 hour cycle within a 29 day lifespan, meaning that they don't always behave how they are expected to.