Tugun Master Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 Avid Collector that I am... anyone out there got write ups for the original Champions teams/villains? I'm looking for info on the the very first Champions teams and any other characters who didn't get the revision treatment over the many different edition changes. Mostly the 1st, 2nd Edition teams with Marksman and Giant and so forth... and even the villains who weren't deemed worthy enough of being revised for the following editions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Escafarc Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 I have some write ups from the 1986 Champions mini-series put out by Eclipse Comics: Flare Foxbat Icestar Giant Rose Malice Marksman Doctor Arcane Lady Arcane But I'm not sure I'm allowed to post them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 There were no "stats" for the Guardians given in any of the previous editions. There was a much talked about Guardians Sourcebook, but it never saw the light of day. 4th Edition rules saw the appearance of The Champions. I believe the early Guardians were as follows: Dove Flare Icestar Gargoyle Goliath Marksman Rose I remember someone mentioning something about a character called Hunter too, but I could be wrong there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Escafarc Posted March 17, 2003 Report Share Posted March 17, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith There were no "stats" for the Guardians given in any of the previous editions. There was a much talked about Guardians Sourcebook, but it never saw the light of day. 4th Edition rules saw the appearance of The Champions. I believe the early Guardians were as follows: Dove Flare Icestar Gargoyle Goliath Marksman Rose I remember someone mentioning something about a character called Hunter too, but I could be wrong there. Yes there was a Hunter played by Steve Peterson and also a Hornet played by Glenn Thain. And the only write-ups I've ever seen are the ones I listed above. And according to Steve in the leters page these are the "Early Years" versions:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugun Master Posted March 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Guardians, eh? So there were no hero write-ups for the first 3 editions? Did they have any villain write-ups in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Editions? Or did they only come in supplements or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 As far as heroes go, Crusader and Starburst were mentioned, but I do not think they got "statted" until 3rd edition (there is a small character sheet with Crusader's stats on it). The early villains statted were: Armadillo, Dragonfly, Green Dragon, Howler, Icicle, Mechanon, Pulsar, and Shrinker. I might have forgotten one or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nblade Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith As far as heroes go, Crusader and Starburst were mentioned, but I do not think they got "statted" until 3rd edition (there is a small character sheet with Crusader's stats on it). Actually I think both of them were used in a previous edition as partial character creation examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear II Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 So, what is stopping anyone from creating stats for the legendary Guardians? I think it would be great if someone made up new stats and posted them for the original Champions hero team, including some of the lesser known heroes like Dove, Hornet, Gargoyle, and Hunter. So, who's up to the task? Acroyear II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keneton Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Write Ups. Originally posted by Monolith There were no "stats" for the Guardians given in any of the previous editions. You are correct, but most were written up unoficially in a series of rather bad comic books. Foxbats secret ID name was changed, but the other characters seemed realtively true to form at least to my (then) high school eyes. I have long since lost the comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Escafarc Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Re: Write Ups. Originally posted by Keneton You are correct, but most were written up unoficially in a series of rather bad comic books. Foxbats secret ID name was changed, but the other characters seemed realtively true to form at least to my (then) high school eyes. I have long since lost the comics. Those are the write-ups I talking about. And they were not that "Bad";) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keneton Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Re: Re: Write Ups. Originally posted by Agent Escafarc Those are the write-ups I talking about. And they were not that "Bad";) Let me clarify. . . (also keep in mind that this is based on deeply repressed high school memories:D ) 1. The story was about the theft of some artifact (might have been the crowns of krim or some orb?). I would rate the story a C for campy. 2. The book was on the higher grade paper and sort of glossy. I give that and A for Awesome for a hero product! 3. The art was average or C for could be mistaken for Secret Wars II. 4. Than Champions Stats were ok or B as in Better than European Enemies. Remember I am comparing it to a then realy good run of Spiderman, Byrne Hulk, and a revamped Man of Steel run. Those comics were good, these not so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith As far as heroes go, Crusader and Starburst were mentioned, but I do not think they got "statted" until 3rd edition (there is a small character sheet with Crusader's stats on it). I remember that character sheet; it listed Bruce Harlick as the player, so I'm guessing he created Crusader. Does anyone know who created Starburst? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant for Hire Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Originally posted by Acroyear II So, what is stopping anyone from creating stats for the legendary Guardians? I think it would be great if someone made up new stats and posted them for the original Champions hero team, including some of the lesser known heroes like Dove, Hornet, Gargoyle, and Hunter. So, who's up to the task? Acroyear II Can we get a general description of the characters? In English rather than numbers, and with a general description of the powers. They're all going to have to be boosted to 350 points anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Shecky Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith As far as heroes go, Crusader and Starburst were mentioned, but I do not think they got "statted" until 3rd edition (there is a small character sheet with Crusader's stats on it). Actually, in 1st and 2nd edition, Crusader, Starburst, and Ogre were used in a really handy walk-through for character creation (something sadly missing from FREd, but I don't have 5th Champions--maybe it's there?), and they had all of their stats. Crusader was given a full-page character sheet in 1st (with no player listed, since there wasn't a space for that on the 1st edition sheets), and a quarter-page reduction of a character sheet in 2nd edition (with Glenn Thain listed as the player). Another cool difference between 1st and 2nd edition: Mechanon was only 345 points in 1st, but 600 in 2nd. We thought he was pretty tough at 345 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugun Master Posted March 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Write Ups. Originally posted by Keneton Let me clarify. . . (also keep in mind that this is based on deeply repressed high school memories:D ) 1. The story was about the theft of some artifact (might have been the crowns of krim or some orb?). I would rate the story a C for campy. 2. The book was on the higher grade paper and sort of glossy. I give that and A for Awesome for a hero product! 3. The art was average or C for could be mistaken for Secret Wars II. 4. Than Champions Stats were ok or B as in Better than European Enemies. Remember I am comparing it to a then realy good run of Spiderman, Byrne Hulk, and a revamped Man of Steel run. Those comics were good, these not so good. Word. I saw what I think was the very first comic on a shelf in a comic book store when I was out of town. It looked rather sub-standard to my picky comic-book collector vision, but having seen the then 1st, 2nd or 3rd Edition (I know not which one) Champions boxed set on the RPG shelves, it gave me the urge to actually pick the issue up and at least give it a flick through. I was rather underwhelmed and put it back. Same with the art of the then Champions rules. I wound up passing it over for the more aesthetically pleasing Golden Heroes RPG and didn't discover the fun of the best superhero system rules out until many years later when I saw the 4th Ed Hero System Rulesbook, and snapped it up. Even then I had the dickens of a time trying to convert same die-hard MERP players over to Champions, and wound up buying almost every 4th Edition supplement I could get my hands on. Now, I look back and think, damn, I passed up on a slice of Champions history... shame on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 Originally posted by Uncle Shecky Actually, in 1st and 2nd edition, Crusader, Starburst, and Ogre were used in a really handy walk-through for character creation (something sadly missing from FREd, but I don't have 5th Champions--maybe it's there?), and they had all of their stats. The Combat sample is also in 4th (page 210 in the BBB) though it uses 3rd edition rules. (I think they fixed it for the soft covers...) 5th edition doesn't have a full example, but they do have bits. Starburst is used as an example for a few of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith There were no "stats" for the Guardians given in any of the previous editions. There was a much talked about Guardians Sourcebook, but it never saw the light of day. 4th Edition rules saw the appearance of The Champions. I believe the early Guardians were as follows: Dove Flare Icestar Gargoyle Goliath Marksman Rose I remember someone mentioning something about a character called Hunter too, but I could be wrong there. I beleve the reasion we will never see the 5th Edition stats of any of theas charaters is that Hero Games/DOJ Inc. dosen't own the charaters at all. Bruse Harlick owns Marksman (which is proably the reasion we got his stats when Bruse was head guy at Hero, durring the Fuzion Years), Glen Tharn owns Icestar, ect. As for explnations...I can give a few vage explnations. Dove: A man traped inside an alien suit of battel armor. Best knows for his force field and high Presence with the limitations Only For Attack, and Only To Look Heroic. Dove got lots of press and fan mail. Flair: She is an energy projector (light), and one of four children made as a Nazie experment in the years after World War 2 (with Nazies hidding out in South America). One draw back to the prosses is that she starts to age faster than a normal human. Is proably around 60 years old today (if you think she was 10 when she joined the Guardians, and looked about 20). Icestar: Heroic mutant energy projector (ice). Killed by Doctor Destroyer at the Battel Of Detrot. Known for his layed back manner, is a pratical joker and a ladys man. Unknown to him, his main girl friend, Cyntha Woo, is secretly his arch enimie, Madam Synn. Gargoyle: Brick who tooked a chemical which alowed him to change (same cemical as Gremlin). Fought with Flair when she first appeared, and was put into a coma which he has yet to come out of (was reduced to a very high negative Stun). Golith: Was called Giant in the Champions Comic Book. Man who found a mystical belt made by the Gods of Olimpous, and granted the ability to change sizes. Was, in reality, the second Golith (first one fought in World War 2). Marksman: Martial Artest/Gagetear. Also has some sort of mutant factor which reduces his aging. The man with the Sonic Pistols. Nuff Said. Rose: Beleved to be the reincarnation of her grandmother (was born the same day she died), Rose is a mentlist with a mystial bent. When she uses her powers, thay smell of roses (hence, her hero name). In love with Marksman. Had Icestar's child (in the Champions Comic Book). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcorp Man Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 Gargoyle was Mark William's character, and the reason why he wasn't in the Champion comicbooks. check this site http://www.heroicpub.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Originally posted by Starcorp Man Gargoyle was Mark William's character, and the reason why he wasn't in the Champion comicbooks. check this site http://www.heroicpub.com/ And another reasion why Hero Games is NOT going to do any writups of the Guardians is because of Dennes Mahony. Because he basicly said "I can do theas charaters better than Hero Games can." Did you notice that MOST of the Guardians are now renamed? Marksman is now Huntsman. Rose is now Psychee. Ect... Have you wondered why? It is because the creators of thoes charaters withdrew the charaters and sacked Mr. Mahony with a 'ceast and dismiss' order. So, in order to keep using the charaters, thay had to be renamed. With the exception of Foxbat, which went swimming in Jusinkyo to become The Flying Fox. This is not to say I hated the comics. On the contray, I extremly liked them. But let's face facts...there is a reasion why Heroic Publishing is no longer doing print comic books. Now, I wish someone would do a new Champions series. DC or Image, prehaps? To avoid legal problems with Marvel (which ownes the name Champions for comic books), set it sorta like Astro City and call it Champions Universe. That way, we don't need to pin the comics to the Champions team exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugun Master Posted March 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Definitely I agree. Marvel Comics don't deserve a Champions Universe line in my opinion. DC Comics (& Image, which DC Comics owns now, yes?) would do a good job on the Champions Mythos. Esp if you could get the likes of Grant Morrison or Pat Mills in on the storyline, and maybe get a good artist on the job. The only thing is, would there be another conflict of who owns the rights to what character fiasco like with Dennis Mallonee's original Champions run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 Re: Definitely Originally posted by Tugun Master I agree. Marvel Comics don't deserve a Champions Universe line in my opinion. DC Comics (& Image, which DC Comics owns now, yes?) would do a good job on the Champions Mythos. Esp if you could get the likes of Grant Morrison or Pat Mills in on the storyline, and maybe get a good artist on the job. The only thing is, would there be another conflict of who owns the rights to what character fiasco like with Dennis Mallonee's original Champions run? Image is not owned by DC Comics. Wildstorm is now owned by DC, but WAS an Image Comics imprint. Just like Top Cow is an Image Comics imprint. Basicly, the imprints are indipendently owned by certan creators, and Image acts like some sort of broker or something. And as for the conflict of 'who owns what charater' for the new, non-existant comic...would be Hero Games/DOJ Inc. Why? Because, simply, thay own all the charaters used. How? Because DOJ Inc will tell them which charaters thay can use, and which charaters thay can not use. Chances are, there will be no stats in the back of the book, or anything like that. Then again, this so called "comic book" will be as likely to happen as a Champions Game Boy video game. It sounds good, but the Magic 8-Ball says "Keep Dreaming, Fanboy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugun Master Posted March 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 Oh. right. Ass-u-me'ed... Well if that's the case then there can only be one real objector then, huh? DOJ Inc. Of course this means I should probably stop coding Champions for the GBA then... (J/K, I'm no game programmer...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 In case your wondering (and this is going to be slightly off target), I always wanted to see a Champions side scroling video game fight fest (think FInal Fight, from Capcom, but with superheros). And that is the reason I put up that crack about a Champions Game Boy Advance game (Cause I realy don't think you CAN program a pure RPG into the Game Boy Advance. Especaly with all the bells and whistels the Hero System requiers.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugun Master Posted March 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 Champions CRPG It'd be rather insane to code with even the slightest semblance of the actual rules. Herosphere has enough to simulate the combat mechanics okay, but still lacks some details such as Altitude (for Flyers) and disarm. Just imagine the special effects assignments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 delete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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