Bygone Champions - Early Editions

[MCMaenza]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I don't know if anyone has since mentioned this, but Dennis Malonee is back with his comic books with Flare and company. They've been back at it now for the past few years - adding more and more titles as they go. Black Enchantress is there along with others he created. Giant is back as is Icicle. Dennis must have worked out some deals with his former buddies to use characters he didn't create.

 

However, I find the books to leave me feeling a little "dirty" after reading them. These are not comics for kids. There is a lot of sexual overtones, innuendo and down-right cheesecake. Flare's comics have always been like that, but there seems to be even more of it now in the newer titles.

 

That doesn't say "Champions" to me. I guess I'm just an old Silver Age prude.

[Mathew]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I'm going to post the three write-up I found in the comics in the closet, but if there are any legal objections to it, let me know and I'll remove them. Anyone have any of the others?

 

 

 

[Cassandra]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I got the Champions comic book series. The original mini-series had the team face off against Demon, and ended up with Goliath being killed off (he had a complete lack of resistance defenses).

 

The regular series promised to be more grounded, and for the most part was. Rose was an underpowered magician, Marksman didn't have a secret identity, and Flare was a fifteen year old in a twenty fire year olds body. The series had the advantage that many of the issues had character write ups in them. Icicle was Icestar's sister, and their relationship was a bit off putting. The series ended in with the team on Mount Olympus, violating the promise of realism.

[Mathew]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

Do you happen to have (or can you make) scans of the write ups for the characters in the end?

[ChaplainAtheon]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

So cool! I remember having those! Damn me for losing them! Damn me all to HELLLL!!

[Greywind]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

Do you happen to have (or can you make) scans of the write ups for the characters in the end?

I can. I just need to find the right box of comics.

[Mathew]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

Here is the write-up for Flare translated to 4th edition.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~mathewignash/PDFs/FLARE.pdf

[assault]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I remember the first time I saw Raze. I shuddered, and promised myself I would never play in a game with characters like that.

[Greywind]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

Why? "I weel keel ewe!" being far too common?

[JmOz]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

And now she would be fairly slightly above average...

[death tribble]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I always wanted a write upin any edition for Gargoyle.

 

And for Dr Lirby Koo.

[Tasha]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I remember that character sheet; it listed Bruce Harlick as the player, so I'm guessing he created Crusader.

 

Does anyone know who created Starburst?

 

Actually Bruce played The Marksman. A semi retired version of the character appears in Champions New Millennium. There was a 4e version posted on the heroboards way back around the time that CNM was popular.

 

From what I understand a bunch of the Core Villains that appeared in the first couple of Champions books were created by George McDonald for his original Champions campaign. For those of you who don't know George is one of the people who created the Champions game and the Hero System

 

BTW Heroic Publishing has no business ties to Hero Games. From what I understand the characters that appeared in the comics were not sanctioned by Hero Games at all.

[Tasha]

Re: Definitely

 

Image is not owned by DC Comics. Wildstorm is now owned by DC, but WAS an Image Comics imprint. Just like Top Cow is an Image Comics imprint. Basicly, the imprints are indipendently owned by certan creators, and Image acts like some sort of broker or something.

 

And as for the conflict of 'who owns what charater' for the new, non-existant comic...would be Hero Games/DOJ Inc. Why? Because, simply, thay own all the charaters used. How? Because DOJ Inc will tell them which charaters thay can use, and which charaters thay can not use. Chances are, there will be no stats in the back of the book, or anything like that.

 

Then again, this so called "comic book" will be as likely to happen as a Champions Game Boy video game. It sounds good, but the Magic 8-Ball says "Keep Dreaming, Fanboy".

 

Actually, DOJ doesn't own the Champions universe anymore. They sold the IP to Cryptic Games. They DO have the rights to publish any game material about the Champions Universe.

[aylwin13]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I remember the first time I saw Raze. I shuddered' date=' and promised myself I would never play in a game with characters like that.[/quote']

 

Why? "I weel keel ewe!" being far too common?

For me it was the god-awful costume.

[Mathew]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I found this one. An obscure Viper agent, combination minor brick and gadgeteer. The Fatman!

 

[Mathew]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I was converting Doctor Arcane to 4th edition, but I wasn't sure about his "hypnosis 14 or less" skill. What book is that in? I'm not sure what to do with the hypnosis skill... maybe interrogation?

 

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I was converting Doctor Arcane to 4th edition' date=' but I wasn't sure about his "hypnosis 14 or less" skill. What book is that in? I'm not sure what to do with the hypnosis skill... maybe interrogation? [/quote']

 

I think Hypnosis is now built as a Limited form of Mind Control. It might be a sidebar example. If not, it's probably in Pulp Hero.

[JmOz]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

From the description of how it is used I would call it Persusasion or interegation (based on the reading on the character)

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

Rep to Mathew for digging those up. Nice necromancy skills too. It was jarring to remember that you could write a whole character on an index card back in the day, which I used to do all the time. I had a recipe file box full of 5X8 cards with villains and NPCs on them.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

Here is the write-up for Flare translated to 4th edition.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~mathewignash/PDFs/FLARE.pdf

 

Looking at that file, I can't remember what "PKG" is supposed to stand for. I looks like a compound attack power, and a fairly nasty one by 4th Ed standards. Anyone know what the abbreviation means?

[Mathew]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

Looking at that file' date=' I can't remember what "PKG" is supposed to stand for. I looks like a compound attack power, and a fairly nasty one by 4th Ed standards. Anyone know what the abbreviation means?[/quote']

 

In order to put two powers in one Multipower slot in Heromaker, they had to be put in a package or "PKG", which is what she did in the original writeup. The one slot has an EB (that is vs. limited defense, flash defense) and a FLASH vs. light.

[Mathew]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

Here is another long lost hero. Well, it's Well...

 

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I was converting Doctor Arcane to 4th edition' date=' but I wasn't sure about his "hypnosis 14 or less" skill. What book is that in? I'm not sure what to do with the hypnosis skill... maybe interrogation? [/quote']

 

"Hypnosis" was originally in the old (pre-4E HERO) Pulp campaigning boxed set, Justice Inc. by Aaron Allston and Michael Stackpole. It was part of a group of what were called "Weird Talents," most of which were reclassified as Talents in 4E and later. Hypnosis was essentially a very limited form of Mind Control, with the classic mesmerist's paraphernalia (e.g. dangling a bauble in front of the subject's eyes, etc.).

 

In the HERO System Almanac I, Steve Peterson and Allen Shock updated a number of elements from JI to 4E. Here's how they dealt with Hypnosis:

 

"Hypnosis is now done using Mind Control requiring an Obvious Accessible Focus (-1), eye contact with the victim (-1/2), an Extra Time Limitation (5 Minutes is the suggested level, -2), and Requires a (Hynosis) Skill Roll (-1/2), based on EGO (+1). The Invisible Power Effects Advantage (+1/2), and Incantations (-1/2) ("you are getting sleepy...sleepy...") might also be in order." (HSA I p. 8) As with other Talents, all this was bought as a net package in JI.

[Guest dan2448]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

I bought these "Champions" comic books as a teenager back when they were newly released, starting in 1986. The first six issues were a mini-series published by Eclipse. As others have already mentioned, the story was hackneyed and the artwork sub-par. The plot focussed on Demon and the occult aspects of the Champions universe, which I was not expecting and did not like much at the time. I was also really disappointed that several of my favorite characters from the 2e and 3e rulebooks and supplements were not included in the comic book, including Gargoyle and Crusader (who looked like a cross between Captain America and Wolverine to me). And the Marksman had been made into a clone of Marvel's Punisher, whose comic book was hugely popular at the time.

 

When that mini-series ended, Dennis Malonee took the book to a new publisher, and started an ongoing series with no. 1 again. I remember that first issue contained an editiorial letter explaining that he, too, was very disappointed in the mini-series, both the artwork and the story. This was going to be how he "really" intended the "Champions" comic to be from the beginning, Mallonee wrote. And you know what? It was significantly better. Better, but far from great in my opinion. But I did enjoy the later appearances of Mechanon and Dr. Destroyer.

 

With regard to the absence of Gargoyle from these comic books, I remember that in the first Eclipse issue the editor explained his absence by stating, "Mark Williams has other plans for Gargoyle." Who knows what that really meant. And then Mark Williams died very young just a few years later, I remember reading.

 

These 1980s "Champions" comics are readily and cheaply available on ebay these days, by the way. (I just bought some last year.)

[assault]

Re: Bygone Champions - Early Editions

 

With regard to the absence of Gargoyle from these comic books' date=' I remember that in the first Eclipse issue the editor explained his absence by stating, "Mark Williams has other plans for Gargoyle." Who knows what that really meant. And then Mark Williams died very young just a few years later, I remember reading.[/quote']

 

Well, at least we have something very similar to a Gargoyle character sheet: in her first published appearance in Space Gamer, Gremlin (also in Classic Enemies) received her powers from a sample of the same formula that Gargoyle got his from.