Yamo Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Having some trouble on my first read through Turakian Age. A lot of the "Arms/Symbol" entries for the various nations make no sense to me. The one for Keldravia reads, in full: "Pean, a red chevron cotised." Huh? What's a "pean" and how does one go about "cotising" it? I can't even begin to picture what this sentence is describing. I've flipped through the rest of the book and I don't see a primer for what this sort of lingo actually means anywhere. Is it just there and I missed it? Very confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? Having some trouble on my first read through Turakian Age. A lot of the "Arms/Symbol" entries for the various nations make no sense to me. The one for Keldravia reads, in full: "Pean, a red chevron cotised." Huh? What's a "pean" and how does one go about "cotising" it? I can't even begin to picture what this sentence is describing. I've flipped through the rest of the book and I don't see a primer for what this sort of lingo actually means anywhere. Is it just there and I missed it? Very confusing. Yup, its some technical stuff. Go here with questions: http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com Pean, a red chevron cotised "In heraldry, pean is one of the furs, the ground being sable, and the spots or tufts or (gold)." This refers to color. Sable is a brownish black color. Thus Pean is brownish-black with gold spots or designs. "In heraldry a chevron is one of the nine honorable ordinaries, consisting of two broad bands of the width of the bar, issuing, respectively from the dexter and sinister bases of the field and conjoined at its center." Think of an inverted "V" at the bottom of the shield. "In heraldry, a cottice or cotise is a diminutive of the bend, containing one-quarter its area. When a single cottice is used alone it is called a cost." So basically, this shield is brownish-black with gold designs on it. There is a small red upside down "V" at the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? Or my favorite: I want a dove displayed upon a billet chequy Or and gules Between a pair of cockatrices clad in motley like a fool's, Their feather's were dimidiated with a tree eradicated, Limbed and fructed counter-compony. from the Herald's Complaint by the Bard of Erebor. Keith "glad I didn't get that illustration assignment" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? If I remember correctly, an ordinary is "cotised" when it runs between two diminutives of the second order. So, a red chevron cotised would be a large, thick inverted red V, running between two thin (a quarter of the thickness) inverted red Vs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? I don't have Turakian Age yet - is there a bibliographical entry for a reference source on heraldry? I'd be surprised if there isn't one listed there or in Fantasy HERO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? Ah, the wonderful language of heralds. Definitions can be easily found on the web or at your local library. A nearly lost art form...I may get the Turakian Age just for the descriptions of the Arms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? There is, somewhere, a program that would do heraldry for you - you could design a coat of arms, and get the description, and I think you could give it a description and get the coat of arms... Ooh, links! Maybe some of these these will help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? I may get the Turakian Age just for the descriptions of the Arms Well, to be fair, I don't follow strict heraldic formulae or the like where there's an easier way to describe something -- for example, I use "red" instead of "gules" and "black" instead of "sable." But some heraldic stuff can't easily be described in any way other than heraldic terms. A chevron is a chevron; I'm not going to call it "an upside down V." Similarly for things like cotised, an animal depicted guardant, and so on. Besides which, the heraldic language has a great "flavor." The best small, quick, cheap, easily-used guide I know to heraldry is Understanding Heraldry, by the Diagram Group. It's what I kept on my desk while writing TA, and any of the heraldic terms used in the book are going to be found in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? For the sake of fantasy gaming, I created a set of my own blazoning terms to describe the positions of weapons and similar items on the shield. It's a simple system that sounds "heraldic" and yet is fairly easy to remember. Take a sword, (please): In general, it could be shown pointing in one of the eight compass directions. So I named each position after the compass direction. Most words describing the position of a heraldic charge end with "-ant," so if the sword points upward (north), I call it "noant" (pronounced "NO-unt") If it points to the upper right (northeast), it is "neant" ("KNEE-unt"). If it points to the upper left (northwest), you could call it "nwant," but that looks a little strange, so I first changed it to "newant," and then to "nuant" (NEW-ant). Likewise for the remaining positions: pointing left (west) = weant ("WEE-unt") pointing right (east) = eant ("EE-unt") pointing down (south) = soant ("SO-unt") down and left (southwest) = suant ("SUE-unt") down and right (southeast) = seant ("SEE-unt") Isn't that simple? Yes, this has no basis in historical heraldry. I created it solely for my fantasy game world's heraldry. Thus the arms of Zenora, Marchioness of Neralf: per fess potenty, sable and argent, three swords nuant proper in chief. That is, the top half is black, the bottom half is white, with three swords pointing up and left of their natural color in the top portion of the shield, and the line separating the black and white areas is "potenty" - it consists of interlocking 'T' shapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? Remembered this post... Thought I'd point you here: http://www.sca.org/heraldry/primer/index.html, because the thread it's posted under doesn't mention heraldry in the subject. [Credit where credit's due: Thanks to Wil Hyral for pointing it out.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? But some heraldic stuff can't easily be described in any way other than heraldic terms. A chevron is a chevron; I'm not going to call it "an upside down V." Similarly for things like cotised, an animal depicted guardant, and so on. Besides which, the heraldic language has a great "flavor." Well I for one did enjoy your use of the Heraldic terms... but do you think that we might ever see, perhaps on the 'Free Stuff' page some of these grand "Arms/Symbol" you have created in actual Visual form... you know kool pics an such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? In general, it could be shown pointing in one of the eight compass directions. So I named each position after the compass direction. Most words describing the position of a heraldic charge end with "-ant," so if the sword points upward (north), I call it "noant" (pronounced "NO-unt") If it points to the upper right (northeast), it is "neant" ("KNEE-unt"). If it points to the upper left (northwest), you could call it "nwant," but that looks a little strange, so I first changed it to "newant," and then to "nuant" (NEW-ant). I think we found the language of the "Keeper of the Sacred Words". Niet, pang, and "NEEEWANT". They were just talking heraldry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? do you think that we might ever see, perhaps on the 'Free Stuff' page some of these grand "Arms/Symbol" you have created in actual Visual form... you know kool pics an such. Only if someone feels like drawin' 'em. I lack the time and artistic talent for the task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? Only if someone feels like drawin' 'em. I lack the time and artistic talent for the task. Blazons is fairly easy to use; for example, here's the arms quoted above: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? Interesting. What's Blazon, and where is it available? I've been wanting a good "create coats of arms" drawing program for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? Interesting. What's Blazon' date=' and where is it available? I've been wanting a good "create coats of arms" drawing program for years.[/quote'] I found Blazon on this page, where there are another couple of programs that might be good for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? Shouldn't the cotise be on both sides of the chevron? Both above and below? That was always my understanding of the term "cotised." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? Yes, but it seems that Blazon doesn't render that correctly for at least the chevron. But take that up with Blazon's programmers, not me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Hyral Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Re: Once more in English, please? http://www.sca.org/heraldry/primer/ This should answer your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnlefey Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Re: Once more in English, please? I know this is resurrecting a very old thread, but as I'm just getting my Turakian Age campaign up and running, I thought I'd add my take on the Keldravian coat of arms. It wasn't made with a heraldry program, just photoshop. Glad to see that from the looks if it, I got it right. My Keldravian campaign is still rather new, but doing okay so far, and this was, if I remember correctly, the first piece of art I made for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Re: Once more in English, please? And, of course, you must now go through the entirety of the book and do the rest. Oh, and thank you for volunteering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Re: Once more in English, please? I know this is resurrecting a very old thread, but as I'm just getting my Turakian Age campaign up and running, I thought I'd add my take on the Keldravian coat of arms. It wasn't made with a heraldry program, just photoshop. Glad to see that from the looks if it, I got it right. My Keldravian campaign is still rather new, but doing okay so far, and this was, if I remember correctly, the first piece of art I made for it. Consider it stolen and thank you. I tried my hand at Mircasea's, but I'm not sure if I'm even in the ballpark. Per fess Dancetty, red above black, with two crossed golden spears in the black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Re: Once more in English, please? Well, that certainly seems to be the Keldravian coat of arms I envisioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnlefey Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Re: Once more in English, please? Steve... COOL! Do I get some kind of geek-cred? LOL Hermit... that looks good to me, from what little I know of Heraldry. Mayapuppies. Ah, Crap! I hate when I get volunteered. I may work on some others, but I got a lot of other stuff eating up my time at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Re: Once more in English, please? Thanks. I also have an attempt at Mezendria if anyone wants it. A golden griffin statant on red, surrounded by a golden tressure with golden suns at each corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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