Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I started out playing AD&D a few years ago, and since converted to 3.0. I've played Hero for about a year, mostly Champions.

 

Comparing D&D to Hero, D&D has two big advantages - easily made characters that don't require lots of GM supervision, and it's harder to "break" than Hero. (That doesn't take into account a GM looking over the player's shoulder).

 

Hero has five big advantages over D&D:

 

Ability to make anything new - new spells, new races, new magic items. Far, far superior to D&D.

 

Mechanical individualization - again, much easier to make similar starting characters feel very different.

 

Game balance - vast superiority. Some character conceptions in D&D are totally inferior to others - a fencer will lose to a tank every single time, especially at higher levels. Multiclassed spellcasters are horribly crippled by the rules. In general, players are often forced to chose between concept and viability.

 

Keeps Working At High Levels/Points - D&D sucks big time at epic levels (21+). The Epic Level Handbook is one of the worst supplements ever - chock full of design flaws, poorly indexed, not properly proofread. Moreover, there are numerous badly designed elements, and most especially the epic spell system, which is like hero, minus all the good points. Better yet, THEY DIDN'T EVEN APPLY THEIR OWN RULES RIGHT. Plus, it's stupid. It is harder to summon a pair of orcs than a major demon. Duh?

 

Not Run By Satan - pretty much self-explanatory. D&D has put out a number of sourcebooks that just stink - Savage Species comes to mind as the biggest offender that I have seen personally. The whole 3.5 thing...yeah, that's been done to death. I have never seen of a Hero supplement this bad.

[Lurker]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I'd just like to say that I really enjoy this thread.

I thought it would quickly turn into D&D-bashing but it seems most of the people posting here are rather honest, unbiased and able to see the advantages of another game system.

As a player relatively new to HERO, I must say I'm positively surprised that HERO players seem to be a nicer (and less prejudiced) group than the followers of other systems.

[DarkClaw]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

Thanks this great stuff. I know from playing champions (started with the 4th ed) that it was a chore to make a character, I didn't have anyone to teach me or help me out with it. i just plowed through it until stuff started to make sense, then came trying to run a game. Which was a task unto itself, I had to make the game help with the other players characters and teach them the game mechanics as we went along. this worked out after a few rough spots and some people got it and a few struggled with it. The poeple I used to group with are all gone now but 1. So we played D&D beacuse it was easier to get up and going. I have never played Fantasy Hero even when it was out before so my not being familiar with the game and not owning a copy of the book has kept me from buying it. How does it differ from Champions, can I still basically build what I want? How would I go about creating a 1st level Fighter/Wizard? How does the spell system work? Could someone right up a quick character that I could show my players? Thanks again for your input, if things work out I might just run out and get the book.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

As a player relatively new to HERO' date=' I must say I'm positively surprised that HERO players seem to be a nicer (and less prejudiced) group than the followers of other systems.[/quote']

 

 

It comes from being part of an elite and intelligent group of roleplayers, as opposed to those trogdolyte-mentality lemmings on the D20 circuit (no offense to lemmings).

 

Heh...just kiddin'

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

...I have never played Fantasy Hero even when it was out before so my not being familiar with the game and not owning a copy of the book has kept me from buying it. How does it differ from Champions' date=' can I still basically build what I want? How would I go about creating a 1st level Fighter/Wizard? How does the spell system work? Could someone right up a quick character that I could show my players? Thanks again for your input, if things work out I might just run out and get the book.[/quote']

 

Fantasy HERO uses the same 5th Edition ruleset as Champions. There are a few default assumptions about a "heroic-level" game that are different from a "superheroic" one, although you can change these as you wish: all characters have Normal Characteristic Maxima by default; attacks use Knockdown rather than Knockback; commonly-available weapons and equipment are bought with money that the characters possess, rather than with Character Points (and aren't usually entered on character sheets). Of course, the power level of the characters is generally much lower than for superheroes.

 

Otherwise, everything is built and works the same way as in Champions, and it's all just as flexible and customizable. The actual FH genre book has lots of Package Deal templates for many different character "classes" and "races", and a dozen suggested sample magic systems to help you craft magic the way you want it to work in your campaign.

 

If you want some ideas on building fantasy characters, I'd suggest checking out Killer Shrike's excellent website, High Fantasy HERO. "High Fantasy" includes D&D-style games, and Shrike's site gives you extensive guidelines and material for that type of play. He even has detailed notes on converting characters and concepts from D&D to HERO.

 

As for a quick character sample, try out nyakki's Random Character Generator for fantasy and super characters. Lots of fun, and produces perfectly usable characters with a bit of fine tuning.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I'd just like to say that I really enjoy this thread.

I thought it would quickly turn into D&D-bashing but it seems most of the people posting here are rather honest, unbiased and able to see the advantages of another game system.

As a player relatively new to HERO, I must say I'm positively surprised that HERO players seem to be a nicer (and less prejudiced) group than the followers of other systems.

Heroes are supposed to be the nice guys!

[Wil Hyral]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I've been playing D&D since I was seven, which is just over 14 years now. So I'm going to answer in the sense of "Vs. D&D," mostly.

 

It depends which type of D&D player you are.

 

If you're a diehard anti-wotc, pro-2nd edition "Classic Elitist" D&D player, Fantasy Hero may not be what you want because it doesn't adhere to sacred cows like Only Human Paladins, etc. unless you actually go through and write up a list with all those cows. It's plausible; nothing in Hero prevents you from saying "these abilities are paladin abilities and only a human can be a paladin." But it does require liberal exercise of control over your fantasy world.

 

If you're a newbie 3rd-edition colored books of D&D player, this system is better because it actually involves facing rules, and attacks of opportunity are still possible to express, but they're much LESS confusing. The real advantage here is you don't have to worry about babysitting balanced stats since D&D3e awards the characters based on their level of balanced power. (Basically if you are too powerful for your level and you don't have an LA on your experience intake, you're abusing the system each time you gain experience.) In other words, one needn't babysit power levels in the HERO system; they're all accounted for.

 

It's fundamentally the same as Champions: points are points, etc. Equipment doesn't cost character points (unless your GM is playing superheroics.. kind of strange for a Fantasy game but not totally alien.)

 

But it's better in general because it requires less fine-tuning and guess-work on the rules. It does require tuning, but the tuning is usually obvious and relative.

 

A Level 1 Fighter/Mage would be a human with CSLs in maybe longsword, a few martial manuevers, and a couple spells. Limitations on the spells would be like "gestures, incantations, obvious expendable focus, spell," and maybe a few others. Otherwise, they'd function really closely to powers.

[tabascojunkie]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I myself was a longtime die-hard D&D player, 1st ed. AD&D precisely. Some of the cool things I liked were combat related. The whole concept of SPD I liked alot. I could have a PC with 3 SPD or buy it up to 5, throw in martial arts or combat maneuvers like sweep or offensive and defensive strike and a battle gets alot more colorful. But in D&D, my fighter was limited to 3 attacks every 2 rounds or 2 attacks a round at higher levels and not really any way to change his armor class. And to hit rolls relied solely on level and bonuses from magic weapons. In Hero you have OCV and DCV modifiers from maneuvers and CSLs, and throw in things like Block, Dodge, and Abort. I realize you probably know all this from Champs, but they're just some of the things that attracted me to Hero initially and may help to draw in the other people you know, especially the Battle Mongers who want to do good in a fight. Luckily I'm more story and roleplaying oriented than I used to be. For those types bring up the skill system and background stories you can build with it plus disadvantages. One thing I think Hero excels at is being able to create a PC that on paper looks a bit more like a real person with a story behind them and a personality than just a bunch combat friendly stats. Anyway, as they say, My 2 Cents.

[Agemegos]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

But how well does the system work for Fantasy? What make this setting better than D&D?

 

Hero System is cheap, especially if you take into account that with D&D you are gong to be suckered into buying shelf-metres of supplements. The equivalent of new races, spells, feats, and classes are implicit in the rules, and you do not need to buy supplements to get them.

 

And that's not all: for the price of FrEd you get a free superhero game, a free SF game, a free Pulp game, a free action-thriller game, all thrown in free gratis. Not to mention steak-knives.

 

Hero System is free from funny-looking genre artifacts D&D bundles some funny things together into the classes, such as two-weapon fighting with the woodsman, magical horses with the holy-warrior-with-healing-touch, backstabbing with the skill-based interpersonal character, plate armour with the priest.. Not so the Hero System.

 

Hero System is vastly more adaptable to different settings. My usual fantasy setting has mages who design their spells to specific purposes like engineers, avatars who gain miraculous powers from their ruling passions, favourites for whom godlings do what favours are within their powers, practitioners of mystic disciplines giving them powers like those attributed to Ch'i in martial-arts myth, and races quite unlike D&D races. It's all easy in Hero System, it's all hard in D&D.

 

Hero System is free from the overwhelming changes in a character's power and toughness of a typical D&D character as he or she gains levels.

 

Hero System run using the 'Heroic' options is much more realistic than D&D, resulting in characters who are more human and fathomable, who are subject to threats that are more familiar and immediate, and who therefore take part in adventures that are more familiar and engaging. Every D&D character who survives a year of play and gets to be experienced enough to use the cool abilities of his of her class becomes so tough that even six good flush hits with a sword cannot stop him: if he or she is a fighter, barbarian, paladin, or ranger a platoon of soldiers with crossbows aimed and ready is not a lethal threat. A 10th-level D&D character faced with a dangerous encounter might sensibly consider jumping off the hundred-foot-high battlements of Babylon onto a rocky bottom, then standing up and running away. Heroe System doesn't scale so drastically, so characters do not become such bizarre unfthomable non-human things. Unless you want them too, in which case they can.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I have dabbled with the idea of playing Fantasy Hero for some time now but have been reluctant to buy it. I have been playing RPDs for 19 years and like most others started out playing D&D. I have played most games that are out there but always went back to D&D. Then I found champions and that changed everything. This was the only game to play if you were going to play superheroes. But how well does the system work for Fantasy? What make this setting better than D&D? Looking for your thoughts and input.

 

Fantsy Hero is probably the Hero variant that I GM the most - it's the easy genre to get players to play (because of the ubiquity of D&D). Personally, I find that the system works well - right out of the box (so to speak) - for everything except magic. The Hero System powers are not spells, they are a meta-system that you can use to build a magic system; and build it you must (or someone must).

 

The Fantasy Hero book offers up a lot of advice on how to build magic systems (but stops just short of actually doing it), and the Fantasy Hero Grimoire offers up a whole slew of pre-written spells and a capsule version of the Turakian Age magic rules (which makes FHG a "must have" book if you want to start quickly).

 

Fantasy Hero's strongest point (imo) is that it's a point based character creation system, which means that you are not locked into a predefined "class". A character can be (within the limit of the points available and the framework of the setting) whatever the player imagines.

 

 

John D.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I started out playing AD&D a few years ago, and since converted to 3.0. I've played Hero for about a year, mostly Champions.

 

Comparing D&D to Hero, D&D has two big advantages - easily made characters that don't require lots of GM supervision, and it's harder to "break" than Hero. (That doesn't take into account a GM looking over the player's shoulder).

 

Actually, while at one time I would have agreed with "D&D is easier to build a character in" philosophy, 3rd edition changed my mind. I find it takes me a lot longer now to build D&D characters, which more "flipping through the book" than it does for me to build FH characters. Even the players I have who's primary gaming experience was D&D found building FH characters a easy process.

 

 

John D

 

p.s.

What's wrong with Williamsburg? My office was there for many years.

[Lezentauw]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I started playing AD&D when it was still 1st edition. I have many fond memories of those game. But, due to HERO I am no long a fan of leveled systems. I find to many things that I do not like about them.

 

IMO the HERO system is more flexible, and allows for greater custimization than any version of D&D or AD&D ever could. While a leveled system forces character to have precise abilities, and they limited to when they can learn those abilities depending on the characters level. The HERO system lets characters flow with the storyline, and learn things in an appropriate manner.

 

The HERO system is a bit more complicated, and combat does take more time that D&D does, but with it you have the choice of using more realistic options than are presented in D&D.

 

I prefer how the HERO system handles armor. In D&D it just makes a character harder to get hit. In the HERO system it reduces how much damage a character takes. Using encumberance rules, the HERO system makes it so a heavily armored person is easier to hit. Which makes more sense to me.

 

Another sticky point for me is D&D's hit point system. A character starts off their career worried about getting hit by a single sword blow, and later on can laugh off an attack of a Dragon's Breath Weapon. Whereas the HERO system tends to be more linear.

[Snarf]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

1.How does the spell system work?

2.Could someone right up a quick character that I could show my players? ...

1. There's no default spell system in the basic 5'th edition books. You can either make your own with the 5'th edition book only, make your own using 5'th edition and the advice in Fantasy Hero, or use the premade magic systems in Fantasy Hero or The Turakian Age setting book. There are also free magic systems availible on the internet.

 

2. Check out this site for tons of recognizable example characters, some of which are Fantasy based:

http://surbrook.devermore.net/index/archive.html

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

Actually, while at one time I would have agreed with "D&D is easier to build a character in" philosophy, 3rd edition changed my mind. I find it takes me a lot longer now to build D&D characters, which more "flipping through the book" than it does for me to build FH characters. Even the players I have who's primary gaming experience was D&D found building FH characters a easy process.

 

 

John D

 

 

Hmmm, interesting. Perhaps it's because I mostly play Champions - more points = more time assigning them. I've got a good enough grasp of D&D 3E rules that I can breeze through a character up to about 4th-5th starting level before I have to start looking things up, or at any level if I don't need to worry about prestige classes.

 

p.s.

What's wrong with Williamsburg? My office was there for many years.

 

As for Williamsburg, a number of things. First, realize that I'm a student (at WM), not a regular citizen; I suspect it's a much better place to live than to go to school. Heat and humidity (and no AC), excessive religious fervor, a bad secondary school system (thankfully, I went to private school), and a certain amount of distaste from the surrounding community.

 

Lack of diversity isn't so good either, but that's more the college than anything else...

 

That said, I don't hate Williamsburg, I'm just not terribly fond of it and other than the fact that I like WM, I wouldn't stay here. Many students really do hate it, though - one person said "the best thing about Williamsburg is that in two hours, I can be out of sight."

[tkdguy]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

Time to put in my 2 cp about why I prefer Fantasy Hero to D&D:

 

1. Combat maneuvers. You have a lot more choices of actions with the Hero system than with D&D. Plus, Hero has many individual styles of martial arts, both armed and unarmed. I've always been less than satisfied with the way martial arts are handled in any D&D system.

 

2. Magic. You can design your own spells. And you can set the level of magic any way you choose from very high (like the Forgotten Realms) to low or even non-existent (like my last campaign). I've been fond of nonmagical campaigns for a while, and D&D is not a good fit for that kind of game.

 

3. Flexibility. You can use the same set of rules for any campaign. If the fantasy adventurers in your campaign travel to the far future, you won't need another set of rules for the people of the future.

 

4. Varying power levels. You can create characters with different point levels. I know you can create D&D characters that are higher than level 1, but then you have to figure out how much wealth and magic the character should have.

[BlackSword]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

An advantage to non-level based systems. If someone is familar with level and spell progression they can gauge their enemies (in both a metagame(he used Thufir's Greater Cleaving he is >15) as well as IC moments(that's a move I haven't seen before, he must be tougher then me)). This can lead to players being able to count spells, approximate BAB, etc. Depending on the magic system you use for Hero that can't happen. You can't guess how much END (or long term END) a mage has left for spell-casting. You can judge from the power of the spell, but it could be a mage who can only cast that single spell and is then out of juice as opposed to a mage who can cast all night without breaking a sweat.

 

So part of it is that the players are unfamilar enough with the system its harder to predict. But also since its not a regeimented level progression there is less to be able to predict.

[DarkClaw]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

Thanks guys, I see that alot of you share the same views when it comes to Fantasy Hero & D&D. That tells me that the proof must be in the pudding. To have so many people say the same thing and have the same points it must be a great game. I'm starting a new Champions group but I think I'll pick up the Fantasy Hero book and give it a read. Thanks again for your help.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I don't think you'll regret it DC It's packed full of Fantasy Goodness

[Guest joen00b]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I'd just like to say that I really enjoy this thread.

I thought it would quickly turn into D&D-bashing but it seems most of the people posting here are rather honest, unbiased and able to see the advantages of another game system.

As a player relatively new to HERO, I must say I'm positively surprised that HERO players seem to be a nicer (and less prejudiced) group than the followers of other systems.

 

If you think we're nice now, ask a question regarding Game Mechanics you're having a problem with. People will pop up out of the woodwork and give you a dozen different ideas on how to handle the situation.

[Karimarle]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I would like to hear about some othe the adventures and stories people have put together using either the published material or there own. This will help me get an idea of how people utilize Fantasy Hero.

 

I run a PBEM group of very different characters who started out journeying through the desert to find a lost tomb. They had to recover an artifact buried in the tomb. Along the way they fought standard D&D monsters and some of my own creations (made easier with FH). I found it lots of fun to design the tomb, traps, etc. with HERO powers.

When the group delievered the item, they got double-crossed by the guy who hired them who attempted to use it to ressurect his daughter. A divine being emerged from the artifact and demanded another life for the life of the daughter. I don't think I could have made this being (four-heads, eight arms and 8 attacks) very easily with D&D.

Since then the group has fought a unique vampire/soul-sucking demon and a demon summoner with a power pool he uses to summmon any kind of useful demon he wants. Along with these and others, they've fought orcs, kobolds and the like.

I guess I'm saying, like most of the others who have replied here, that I like FH's versatility. It's great having easy guildlines for coming up with new enemies and migic items and situation.

 

Check out my PBEM site here:

http://pbem.nexusseven.com/blog/

[DarkClaw]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I checked out a few more websites and have decided that between my Champions game I'm going to do a Fantasy Hero and a Star Hero Game. I'll do one then another and find which my group prefers to start a campaign in, or go hog wild and combine all 3. What I would like to know from you guys is this, how long would you say it taked to throw a game that would last for 4-6 hours together? Plus that would be easy to get a new group introduced to the game. I'm thinking maybe I should just throw a couple of characters together and have them play those until they get a feel of the game and the mechanics and them let them make their own. Your thoughts.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

As for Williamsburg, a number of things. First, realize that I'm a student (at WM), not a regular citizen; I suspect it's a much better place to live than to go to school. Heat and humidity (and no AC), excessive religious fervor, a bad secondary school system (thankfully, I went to private school), and a certain amount of distaste from the surrounding community.

 

Lack of diversity isn't so good either, but that's more the college than anything else...

 

That said, I don't hate Williamsburg, I'm just not terribly fond of it and other than the fact that I like WM, I wouldn't stay here. Many students really do hate it, though - one person said "the best thing about Williamsburg is that in two hours, I can be out of sight."

 

Nah! The best thing about Williamsburg is that it sits on the edge of Hampton Roads. Newport News, Hampton, Virginia Beach, and Norfolk are where everything interesting (of non-historical signifigance) is. When I lived there the area was supporting at least 10 comic/game stores (most of them are combined stores that sell both), many independantly owned books stores (in addition to the nation chains), a bunch of high quality used-book stores, and had a gaming population that I wish Winston-Salem had. Outside of gaming, there are several small concert venues that are favorite places for performers that can't fill a either of coliseums, several movie theatres (including small, independent ones that show oddball stuff that Carmike and AMC wouldn't touch), several good library systems, lots of museums (both of teh art and non-art variety), and just a slew of other things that used to occupy my free time when I lived there. Williamsburg itself has very little of these things, but a 20 minute drive can get you into the heart of it.

 

Now, where I currently live (Winston-Salem, NC) is a horrible place to be a gamer, and (to judge by the number of book stores) has a population that is functionaly illiterate. And don't even get me started on cultural activities...

 

 

 

John D.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

Nah! The best thing about Williamsburg is that it sits on the edge of Hampton Roads. Newport News, Hampton, Virginia Beach, and Norfolk are where everything interesting (of non-historical signifigance) is. When I lived there the area was supporting at least 10 comic/game stores (most of them are combined stores that sell both), many independantly owned books stores (in addition to the nation chains), a bunch of high quality used-book stores, and had a gaming population that I wish Winston-Salem had. Outside of gaming, there are several small concert venues that are favorite places for performers that can't fill a either of coliseums, several movie theatres (including small, independent ones that show oddball stuff that Carmike and AMC wouldn't touch), several good library systems, lots of museums (both of teh art and non-art variety), and just a slew of other things that used to occupy my free time when I lived there. Williamsburg itself has very little of these things, but a 20 minute drive can get you into the heart of it.

 

Now, where I currently live (Winston-Salem, NC) is a horrible place to be a gamer, and (to judge by the number of book stores) has a population that is functionaly illiterate. And don't even get me started on cultural activities...

 

 

 

John D.

 

The problem with the "nice surrounding area" thing is again a college student vs. regular citizen thing - I can't park a car on campus, and thus it's no easy feat to get to, say, Newport News. Not that it's the school's fault - just not enough parking. On the other hand, some of the things you mentioned are on the list of things I do like about living here - the Kimball theater, which often plays interesting movies, is within walking distance, and so is a good library.

[Nuke]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I checked out a few more websites and have decided that between my Champions game I'm going to do a Fantasy Hero and a Star Hero Game. I'll do one then another and find which my group prefers to start a campaign in' date=' or go hog wild and combine all 3. What I would like to know from you guys is this, how long would you say it taked to throw a game that would last for 4-6 hours together? Plus that would be easy to get a new group introduced to the game. I'm thinking maybe I should just throw a couple of characters together and have them play those until they get a feel of the game and the mechanics and them let them make their own. Your thoughts.[/quote']

 

It's very easy, just like in any fantasy hero campaign, to throw together a single adventure to get the feel for things. Balance isn't important for a "trial" adventure, and it will be just as much a learning experience for you as it is for them.

 

I'd suggest taking someone's predefined magic system, or just use the old fashioned approach of writing them up as Champions powers, but require all the limitations you'd expect from a spell (gestures, incantations, focus, side effect, concentration, requires a "magic skill roll" .. INT based skill, 3pts, 2pts for +1). It's pretty easy to write up a "fire bolt" spell and a "shield" spell in fantasy hero since it's almost identical to writing up a "Human Torch" superhero.

 

Some famous "first adventures" I've always came up with:

- The small town everyone is from is being badgered by bandits

- The local (insert figure of power) needs the local adventuresome types to go do something for him

- Something spooky is happening and it is approaching a full moon (typical cult adventure)

 

All three of these threads can easily be expanded some time in the future into a campaign, or can easily be thrown out if you decide to start fresh after your trial.

 

I suggest using a small town (less NPCs to write up) and forcing the trial adventure such that all the PCs know each other before the adventure starts. It leaves less explanation on the details of the "rest of the world", which is something you want to avoid when you're just trying to see how well you like FH...

[Beetle]

Re: Why play Fantasy Hero over other fantasy games?

 

I think it's a good idea for you to put the characters together yourself, especially if you have an idea of what they want. The times I've fun FH with people unfamiliar with the system, the first night was always straight character creation (make sure there's something entertaining for others to do while you're working with one player on a character ... it's easy if the players also like Magic, or whatever kids are doing these days).

 

Basically, I would sit with the player and ask him to describe what he wants. As he did, I'd start jotting down numbers and skills. Then I'd explain what they mean (or show him the skill def) and say "Is that what you were thinking?" That way the player "owned" the character even though I actually "picked" everything for it. Also, it gave the player the beginnings of an understanding of how HERO operates. (and, hey, it's how my first character was done ... I never even touched the pencil).