Social Limitation: Legacy

[SAVeira]

I am currently working on, for lack of a better word, "legacy" campaign. Most of the PCs will hopefully be a second, third or fourth generation superhero. In that spirit, I going to allow a disadvantage that only legacy characters could take.

 

Social Limitation: Legacy (Occasionally, Minor) 5 pts

 

The idea that the character gets some points from the pressure of having live up to the PC's predecessor. The old idea, "I known the original Heroman, and you are no Heroman". Or that the character inherits their predecessor's foes.

 

I want to limit it to 5 points, as that it is how much extra a character with many enemies gets on their Identity Social Limitation.

 

PCs that want to benefit from their predecessor reputation, they will have spend points on the Perk Reputation.

 

Any thoughts on my idea?

[Acroyear]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

 

'nuff said.

[devlin1]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

I really see this more as a combination of Psych Lim: Feels Pressured To Live Up To Family Name and Reputation: Son/Daughter of X (both as a Perk and a Disad). If the Social Lim were to come in at all, IMO, I think it should be as Famous (if not Public ID).

 

My two quatloos.

[Ghost who Walks]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

I kind of like the idea, its very genre.

 

Think of all those heroes who have had the same name as some previous hero. And how they had to live up to the pevious hero's rep. Villains also. The Flash (Wally) springs to mind as a good example.

 

I don't think it would be a pysch lim, because its how other characters see you. If it bothers the caharacter a bunch, then he gets a psych lim.

[Static UK]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

I'm with Acroyear and Ghost Who Walks.

 

I also think that it is a great idea. It could also be used for those heroes that have other (more famous) family members still in the 'job', or that did something heroic, like save the whole world. It would be something that would get mentioned everytime the poor hero does something good.

 

Heroman has just saved Millennium City from Mechanon's latest scheme.

"Great work Heroman!" Says the Mayor.

"Thanks." says Heroman, beaming from ear to ear.

"It reminds me of when your brother, Herodude, saved the world!"

Heroman's smile fades at the comparison... how will he ever live up to that?!

[Misery Lad]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

I think that's a terrific genre cornerstone, since it can manifest itself in so many ways. Take, for example, the hero whose parent or parents were famous heroes and, even though he might not carry either of their names, if the public is aware of the familial connection, his exploits immediately become a point of closer-than-normal scrutiny.

 

Comics throughout the years have explored this underrated convention:

 

She-Hulk and the Hulk

 

The Kryptonian, Superboy, Steel, The Cyborg and Supergirl, following the "death" of Superman

 

Scott Lang, who took over the role of Ant-Man after Henry Pym wigged out

 

Wally West as the Flash in the wake of Barry Allen

 

To some extent, Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern in the wake of Hal Jordan

 

Jim Rhodes, taking over the role of Iron Man from Tony Stark

 

Luke Cage, filling in for the Thing in the Fantastic Four

 

Jaques what's-his-name, the second Invisible Kid in the Legion of Super Heroes

 

Artemis, replacing Diana as Wonder Woman

 

To a small extent, Heather Hudson, replacing her husband Mac as Vindicator in Alpha Flight

 

Etc., etc.

 

The only reservation I would have is that the actual worth of the Disadvantage should be more dependent on the notoriety of the hero being replaced. Sure, Connor Hawke had some sizable shoes to fill as the new Green Arrow but how does that compare with becoming the new Superman or having Beta Ray Bill replace Thor? Okay, the role of Robin leaves something of a legacy but the person who cared most about it was Batman, not the citizens of Gotham City. I might start with 5 points but would consider as much as 10 if the previous character was something of a legend.

[Misery Lad]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

And here's another thought: You could levy this Disadvantage on an entire team if its members are replacing original members who have made that name famous. This isn't the greatest example in the world but remember when the star members of the Justice League disappeared and J'Onn J'Onzz started a new League with mostly all-new members (Gypsy, Vixen, Steel 2 or 3, depending on how you count, and Vibe)?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

It's a great idea, and Social Limitation is a solid way to write it up.

 

As an added twist, if the character himself is not always comfortable living up to the legacy, try adding Rivalry. I did this for a write-up I did of Wally West a few years ago... "Rivalry with The Memory and Reputation of Barry Allen (Professional, Rival is in Superior Position): 10 points."

[Hermit]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

It's a great idea, and Social Limitation is a solid way to write it up.

 

As an added twist, if the character himself is not always comfortable living up to the legacy, try adding Rivalry. I did this for a write-up I did of Wally West a few years ago... "Rivalry with The Memory and Reputation of Barry Allen (Professional, Rival is in Superior Position): 10 points."

 

I did the same thing with rivalry, worked out fine.

 

And SAVeira, the Social Limitation idea is great. Simple, clean cut, and we can always use more social limitations

[JmOz]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

I kind of like the idea, its very genre.

 

Think of all those heroes who have had the same name as some previous hero. And how they had to live up to the pevious hero's rep. Villains also. The Flash (Wally) springs to mind as a good example.

 

I don't think it would be a pysch lim, because its how other characters see you. If it bothers the caharacter a bunch, then he gets a psych lim.

 

I find this post very IRONIC, as he uses Flash as a "Good Example" that "Springs to mind", when his avator, and his name are taken from the CLASSIC example of "The Phantom", I am ammused

[JmOz]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

Okay, I would value the Social Lim at 5 points for a normal character (Green Arrow), 10 for a Big Name (Green Lantern, Superman), 0 if the character is of little concern to the public (Robin)

 

I would also allow the Psyc Lim for characters who are TRYING to live up to the name (this Robin would be allowed to take)

[Greatwyrm]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

I really like this. I think it would also provide a good motivation for second generation villains. Always trying to one-up their senior namesake. They might sprial more and more out of control as they try to come up with bigger and bigger crimes.

 

"Oh, sure, you're evil kid. But let's be honest, your old man really knew how to cut a ransom demand."

 

Also, this could be a good motivation to turn from good to evil in the first place. Kinda like how cops' and preachers' kids seem to cause the most trouble.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

Great idea! Always loved Legacy characters

[devlin1]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

Heroman has just saved Millennium City from Mechanon's latest scheme.

"Great work Heroman!" Says the Mayor.

"Thanks." says Heroman, beaming from ear to ear.

"It reminds me of when your brother, Herodude, saved the world!"

Heroman's smile fades at the comparison... how will he ever live up to that?!

 

Okay. That's a Psych Lim. He feels pressured to live up to Herodude's name. See, if it weren't a Psych Lim, it would've gone like this:

 

Heroman has just saved Millennium City from Mechanon's latest scheme.

"Great work Heroman!" Says the Mayor.

"Thanks." says Heroman, beaming from ear to ear.

"It reminds me of when your brother, Herodude, saved the world!"

"Yeah, he was great, wasn't he?"

 

I still don't see how any of this is a Social Lim. Someone please explain to me how everyone in Hero City could expect you to live up to Hero X's reputation without that causing a great deal of pressure within you, Hero X II, to live up to their expectations.

 

How is it a Social Lim? Are you not allowed to vote? Waiters won't serve you? Forced to sit at the back of the bus?

[Twilight]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

Okay. That's a Psych Lim. He feels pressured to live up to Herodude's name. See, if it weren't a Psych Lim, it would've gone like this:

 

Heroman has just saved Millennium City from Mechanon's latest scheme.

"Great work Heroman!" Says the Mayor.

"Thanks." says Heroman, beaming from ear to ear.

"It reminds me of when your brother, Herodude, saved the world!"

"Yeah, he was great, wasn't he?"

 

I still don't see how any of this is a Social Lim. Someone please explain to me how everyone in Hero City could expect you to live up to Hero X's reputation without that causing a great deal of pressure within you, Hero X II, to live up to their expectations.

 

How is it a Social Lim? Are you not allowed to vote? Waiters won't serve you? Forced to sit at the back of the bus?

 

People constantly thinking you're an inferior version of your parent/grandparent/sibling? Police disrespecting you because they don't feel you live up to the legacy of parent/grandparent/sibling? Public beliving you're a disgrace to the legacy of said parent/grandparent/sibling if you do the slightest thing wrong?

 

See how it's a Social Limitation now?

[Hermit]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

 

Someone please explain to me how everyone in Hero City could expect you to live up to Hero X's reputation without that causing a great deal of pressure within you, Hero X II, to live up to their expectations.

Sounds like your arguement is saying they'd end up developing a Psychological lmitation BECAUSE of the Social Limitation. That doesn't mean the Social Lim is inappropriate.

 

How is it a Social Lim? Are you not allowed to vote? Waiters won't serve you? Forced to sit at the back of the bus?

 

No, but folks will treat you in either the same fashion they'd treat your predecessor, or in an inferior manner.

 

"Thanks for saving us Atomizer. You're predecessor would be proud," The Mayor said, then patted his arm, "And here comes the press. "

 

Atomizer twisted to see the approaching cameras, unlike his mentor, he'd never enjoyed the limelight, "Ah, Mayor, you didn't tell me the press would be here right after the fight...and I didn't plan on giving an interview."

 

"NONSense, Atomizer always gives interviews..." The Mayor chuckled, "Smile now..."

 

 

or

 

The police were in full circle about the building, the SWAT team was already to move in when the word was given. The hostage situation had changed everything.

 

"Maybe I can help?" a woman's voice offered.

 

The police captain wondered where THAT came from, and realized that the new Maelstrom was among them. He shook his head, "Let us handle this little lady, this is no place for amatuers."

 

"Amatuers?" Maelstrom arched a brow, "Beg pardon? I've done this before chief... "

 

"Yeah, as Windy, the real Maelstrom's sidekick. He was a grown man with decades of experience... I'd take a chance on him, but I'm not going to gamble that hostage's life on an 18 year old girl getting it right..."

 

 

Either (or both) ways might work to reflect this as a Social limitation.

[devlin1]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

People constantly thinking you're an inferior version of your parent/grandparent/sibling? Police disrespecting you because they don't feel you live up to the legacy of parent/grandparent/sibling? Public beliving you're a disgrace to the legacy of said parent/grandparent/sibling if you do the slightest thing wrong?

 

See how it's a Social Limitation now?

 

This is, of course, assuming that the PC in question is always inferior and a disgrace. However, most of these can easily apply to Joe Everyhero, as well, even if they're not the successor to a famous hero title. If Superman starts acting like an a-hole (can I say asshole on here?), there'll be a public backlash even if the only name he's failing to live up to is his own.

 

Sounds like your arguement is saying they'd end up developing a Psychological lmitation BECAUSE of the Social Limitation. That doesn't mean the Social Lim is inappropriate.

 

I'm just reasoning from effect here. IMO, the real difficulty comes from within in these situations, with few exceptions that I can think of.

 

"NONSense, Atomizer always gives interviews..." The Mayor chuckled, "Smile now..."

 

This strikes me as a function of Reputation. Atomizer could up and leave the press conference. If he does this enough, he'd probably develop a different Reputation (Unfriendly Asshole).

 

"Yeah, as Windy, the real Maelstrom's sidekick. He was a grown man with decades of experience... I'd take a chance on him, but I'm not going to gamble that hostage's life on an 18 year old girl getting it right..."

 

This, I'm starting to buy-- although I wouldn't trust that punk Maelstrom II, either. My own theory is that she killed Maelstrom so she wouldn't have to be called "Windy" anymore.

[Hermit]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

 

This strikes me as a function of Reputation. Atomizer could up and leave the press conference. If he does this enough, he'd probably develop a different Reputation

 

Except that Reputation relies on a roll of the dice to see it kicks in, and isn't really general enough. Going by that, you could give the guy some rather dubious reps all lined up: Rep1: Atomizer gives interviews. Rep 2. Atomizer drinks his coffee Black. Rep 3. Atomizer prefers dogs over cats...etc. I don't know too many GMs that would let those fly for 5 or 10 points a pop The point is folks might assume that Atomizer II does everything his predesor did the way he did. They would apply their own preconceptions on him without need of a die roll. Sure, Atomizer can start acting abruptly differently and get a negative disad to replace it, but it would be like going down a check list. Only time and situation would naturally clear it up.

 

At least that's one way I might handle it if someone used the Social Limitation: legacy in my gaming group. Natch YMMV.

[Hermit]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

This, I'm starting to buy-- although I wouldn't trust that punk Maelstrom II, either. My own theory is that she killed Maelstrom so she wouldn't have to be called "Windy" anymore.

 

 

No one can prove a thing...

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

Legacy is really composed of three parts:

 

Reputation: Legacy

Psych Lim: Legacy Code of Conduct

Hunted: Legacy villains

 

Possibly also

 

Watched: Legacy

 

Which would indicate that they were being watched to ensure that they were living up to their legacy.

[devlin1]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

Except that Reputation relies on a roll of the dice to see it kicks in, and isn't really general enough. Going by that, you could give the guy some rather dubious reps all lined up: Rep1: Atomizer gives interviews. Rep 2. Atomizer drinks his coffee Black. Rep 3. Atomizer prefers dogs over cats...etc. I don't know too many GMs that would let those fly for 5 or 10 points a pop

Yes, well, all silliness aside, I'd never suggest that those should be worth anything, but having a Reputation as a friendly hero should be worth something. The average crook on the street might say "Yeah, that's him-- that's Atomizer. Y'know, the one who's always on TV. Seems like a nice guy. You act hurt while I sneak up from behind him." And you might apply the Reputation roll to see if they know him. The media, however, would know him automatically, no die roll required. I don't think there's any need to always roll, every time, if it's not justified.

 

The point is folks might assume that Atomizer II does everything his predesor did the way he did. They would apply their own preconceptions on him without need of a die roll.

Assuming they recognize him. Thus, the die roll for Reputation.

 

Sure, Atomizer can start acting abruptly differently and get a negative disad to replace it, but it would be like going down a check list. Only time and situation would naturally clear it up.

Again, I'm not suggesting he should get a Reputation for being the superhero that puts on his tights both legs at once. That's silly. I'm talking about one Disad being altered-- once-- to reflect the fact that he's putting his own stamp on the name.

 

BTW, what does Atomizer do, anyway? Spray people with perfume? Flash v. Smell/Taste Group, I'd say, with a Linked AoE EB, NND (Defense is Self-Contained Breathing or No Respiratory System).

[Hermit]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

Atomizer breaks things down into atoms of course...

 

One of the dangers of inheiriting golden/silver age names is that they can be ... silly/stupid/embarrasing.

 

Just ask "The Whizzer IV"

[devlin1]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

Legacy is really composed of three parts:

 

Reputation: Legacy

Psych Lim: Legacy Code of Conduct

Hunted: Legacy villains

 

Possibly also

 

Watched: Legacy

 

Which would indicate that they were being watched to ensure that they were living up to their legacy.

I used to have a "legacy" character in a game (she was rather fixated on a well-known hero in town who disappeared, then took his place), and this is pretty much how I handled it.

[devlin1]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

Just ask "The Whizzer IV"

Pfft. He's no Whizzer III. Now there was a hero.

[Kirby]

Re: Social Limitation: Legacy

 

I still don't see how any of this is a Social Lim. Someone please explain to me how everyone in Hero City could expect you to live up to Hero X's reputation without that causing a great deal of pressure within you' date=' Hero X II, to live up to their expectations.[/quote']

It happens in politics all the time. An incoming president is always compared to the previous president (especially if from opposing parties). The same goes for governors, mayors, and in Dallas it goes for DISD superintendent (changes about every year) and police chief. Back to presidents, not only are they compared while running and once in, but the media makes a huge comparisson after 100 days in.

 

I can see this happening with supers. The first time they fight a certain infamous villain the media compares the length of the fight and property damage. The first time the new team is defeated (Well, the *old* team was never beat by that guy!) or the first time a villain escapes (Ya know Jim, the old team made sure to capture villains 95% of the time. No villain escaped until after their first year on duty, not their first month).

 

No one can spin a story like the media. And then: magazines! (The 50 most beautiful supers.)