How would you create a Wish?

[OddHat]

Just one wish that could completely change the entire world, on no more than 200 active points? Can it be done?

[Pegasus]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

It sounds like a cumulative megascale transform to me, as long as it's not a time issue.

[Zeropoint]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

The really cheesy way to do it is Extradimensional Movement to a dimension that's already what you want. But, like I said, that's cheesy. Really cheesy.

 

Cheap, though.

 

Zeropoint

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

How about this...

 

199

Wish: Major Transform 1d6 (Anything into Anything, Healed by GM Option, which can change from use to use based on the nature of the wishes), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Affects Desolidified (Any form of Desolidification; +1/2), Variable Healing Method (+1/2), Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Improved Target Group (+1), Area Of Effect (17" Radius; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Penetrating (x2; +1), Transdimensional (Any Dimension; +1), Continuous (+1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), MegaScale (1" = 10,000 km; +1 1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1)

0

[OddHat]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

Thanks all for the suggestions.

 

Derek: Very Nice!

 

Under 5th edition rules, do I need a Mental, a Physical, and a Spiritual transform to completely change a living creature, or is Anything into Anything enough?

[StGrimblefig]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

I would tend to see a wish as a plot device, not as something that has a point cost (which implies that a player can buy it, too).

[OddHat]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

I would tend to see a wish as a plot device' date=' not as something that has a point cost (which implies that a player can buy it, too).[/quote']

 

I can see that point of view, and I (like any GM) will do hand waving for the sake of dramatic and common sense. However, one of the nice things about Hero is that you can quantify almost everything, and that a player who says "I want to make wishes" can be told "Here is the mechanic." It might not work in all campaigns, but that's true of many powers.

 

In this case, I'd like the characters to face an opponent that is trying to complete a ritual that will grant him one Wish; quantifying how that wish works seems like it might help.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

Most wishes are crap like "I wish I had a million dollars" or "I wish X was in love with me".

 

All of those can be done by Transform, and they don't even need to Transform X or the bank or whatever.

 

Transform to give the wisher Wealth

 

Transform to give the wisher DNPC: X (though it could give X Psych Lim: In Love With Wisher)

 

Etc.

 

Of course, it doesn't work to give the caster a wish, but maybe he summons a genie who has the Grant Wish ability.

 

Given that most wishes are "monkey's paw" type affairs, giving the wisher 3d6 Unluck as well might not be out of line.

[Foxx!]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

Heroes!

 

On p. 267 of Fantasy Hero there is a Grant Wish spell which uses Extra Dimensional Movement: to a dimension where things are as you wish.

 

http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13461

 

You also can check the Fantasy Hero board to see how others do it. I recall the discussion coming up a few times.

 

Cheers!

[CourtFool]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

On p. 267 of Fantasy Hero there is a Grant Wish spell which uses Extra Dimensional Movement: to a dimension where things are as you wish.

In my humble opinion, this is the silliest thing to come out of 5th. I cringe every time I see it.

[OddHat]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

I don't mind the "You go to another dimension" trick for wish granting, but in my campaign I'd take it at face value. The Character making the wish is now gone, off in another dimension, and out of the campaign.

 

For dramatic effect, how does everyone feel about a megascale continuous transform with partial effect? Large wishes would not be permanent until the entire world had been changed (at two body per turn, which would take quite a long time), but many small changes would pop up, more of them all the time?

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

PS: Alter Reality

[palehorse]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

I don't mind the "You go to another dimension" trick for wish granting, but in my campaign I'd take it at face value. The Character making the wish is now gone, off in another dimension, and out of the campaign.

 

With that option, too, you can make it so that that's not the ONLY thing different in the new dimension, particularly if they didn't word the wish very well.

 

(Personally, I don't care for wishes, but that was a whole 'nother thread already!)

[Blue]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

I'm with the "Plot Device" opinion. Main reason is that the actual results of the wish are up to the GM anyway, regardless of what was asked for, so it may as well be a plot device.

 

Still, a very nice build on the wish.

 

I was thinking it was some kind of cosmic pool only for a transform power, megascale, and 1 use ever. But I never did any number crunching.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

With that option' date=' too, you can make it so that that's not the ONLY thing different in the new dimension, particularly if they didn't word the wish very well.[/quote']You could even establish it as a ground rule of the campaign that if anyone makes a wish, that ends the game session. Why? So the GM has adequate time to diabolically prepare the results of the wish to begin the next session with.

[OddHat]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

Is anyone here a fan of the Angel and Buffy TV series? One thing I liked there; certain sufficiently powerful beings (those with Power defense) never forgot what the "Old Reality" had been like, and at least for a while it was possible to find physical evidence as well (words written on a wall under the wall paper in the Angel episode Happy Birthday, pictures that could be seen in their original form with a See True Form spell, other signs).

 

How would you feel about Hide Effects of Power (defined as "reality has Always been this way") together with the Partial Transform (to change the wallpaper quickly but, special effect, have not yet changed the wall)?

[Foxx!]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

I would tend to see a wish as a plot device' date=' not as something that has a point cost (which implies that a player can buy it, too).[/quote']

 

I'm with the "Plot Device" opinion. Main reason is that the actual results of the wish are up to the GM anyway, regardless of what was asked for, so it may as well be a plot device.

 

Still, a very nice build on the wish.

 

I was thinking it was some kind of cosmic pool only for a transform power, megascale, and 1 use ever. But I never did any number crunching.

 

Despite my earlier post, I too am with the Plot Device group. Whenever I use wishes, they are granted by NPCs of great power: faeries, gods, etc.

 

Cheers!

[zornwil]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

Is anyone here a fan of the Angel and Buffy TV series? One thing I liked there; certain sufficiently powerful beings (those with Power defense) never forgot what the "Old Reality" had been like, and at least for a while it was possible to find physical evidence as well (words written on a wall under the wall paper in the Angel episode Happy Birthday, pictures that could be seen in their original form with a See True Form spell, other signs).

 

How would you feel about Hide Effects of Power (defined as "reality has Always been this way") together with the Partial Transform (to change the wallpaper quickly but, special effect, have not yet changed the wall)?

Great point. Even before BtVS, I had characters with "true time stream" sight (mainly because I had a PC who was a time traveller/manipulator and one of the conditions I imposed was that he have a duty to "uphold the true time stream" lest his powers end up disrupting the game); this can be played to effect with wish scenarios as well.

 

As to the "x-dim movement is cheesy," well, yeah, but isn't the issue truly that granting wishes as such is cheesy? In that, I think I support the orthodox method - of course it depends a bit on the nature of the wish, for some ("I want to be beautiful from now on") Transform is better. But world-affecting dreams simply can't be expressed in HERO terms appropriately without a cheesy Megascale Transform or X-Dim Movement, IMHO.

[OddHat]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I fully conceed the pressence of cheese in some wish granting stories, and I understand the point of view of those who prefer to keep wishes as a plot device. However, I feel that there are also some very interesting storylines that relate to uncovering massive changes in reality. My own desire to quantify the power comes partially from wanting to properly price the ritual that will cast the wish, and partially from an interest in seeing how closely I can come to modelling this effect in Hero.

[zornwil]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I fully conceed the pressence of cheese in some wish granting stories' date=' and I understand the point of view of those who prefer to keep wishes as a plot device. However, I feel that there are also some very interesting storylines that relate to uncovering massive changes in reality. My own desire to quantify the power comes partially from wanting to properly price the ritual that will cast the wish, and partially from an interest in seeing how closely I can come to modelling this effect in Hero.[/quote']

There's good coverage of this in Fantasy HERO, do you have access to that?

[OddHat]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

There's good coverage of this in Fantasy HERO' date=' do you have access to that?[/quote']

 

Yes, picked it up as soon as it was out.

 

I'm just not a big fan of the extra-dimensional movement approach. It's cheap and it works, espeially if you're doing a solo adventure. Conceptually it works very well for adventures where all of the effects of the wish are erased at the end of the game session, as those events never happened in the Characters' time stream. It's great for something like Farscape's Unrealized Realities. For something like Buffyverse re-writes of history, I think the mega transformation attack will work better.

 

Again, thanks for the feedback.

[zornwil]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

Yes, picked it up as soon as it was out.

 

I'm just not a big fan of the extra-dimensional movement approach. It's cheap and it works, espeially if you're doing a solo adventure. Conceptually it works very well for adventures where all of the effects of the wish are erased at the end of the game session, as those events never happened in the Characters' time stream. It's great for something like Farscape's Unrealized Realities. For something like Buffyverse re-writes of history, I think the mega transformation attack will work better.

 

Again, thanks for the feedback.

That's cool, and thanks, hope I didn't come across as "thou shalt" re FH, obviously you've reviewed it!

[OddHat]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

That's cool' date=' and thanks, hope I didn't come across as "thou shalt" re FH, obviously you've reviewed it![/quote']

 

No problem at all. It's a very useful book for all kinds of constructs, but this is an area where I can't see using some of the design choices in my current game.

[PaRappaTheRappe]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

I love threads like this. XDM is just like Kraft, the cheesiest! And yet, so perfectly balanced in a campaign of 75-point heroic normals!

 

Actually, I like XDM wishes because they codify wishing in game mechanics without constraining plot-device potential. It's really a toss-up between that and cumulative megascale transforms for me; I just don't like the VPP solution. A Cthulhuan "Other Gods" type entity might be best off with stupendous Mind Scan and Telepathy plus Extra Time Transforms; something like Guu from Jungle wa Itsumo Hale Nochi Guu is best off with XDM.

[Foxx!]

Re: How would you create a Wish?

 

How about this...

 

199

Wish: Major Transform 1d6 (Anything into Anything, Healed by GM Option, which can change from use to use based on the nature of the wishes), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Affects Desolidified (Any form of Desolidification; +1/2), Variable Healing Method (+1/2), Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Improved Target Group (+1), Area Of Effect (17" Radius; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Penetrating (x2; +1), Transdimensional (Any Dimension; +1), Continuous (+1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), MegaScale (1" = 10,000 km; +1 1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1)

0

Derek!

 

Something I really like about this is that someone with enough Power Defence is going to be unaffected. If someone rewrites history, there will be a few people who still remember how it was.

 

Cheers!