tabascojunkie Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 I was wondering how many of you use dungeons in your games, and if you do how do you use them? Back in the high school D&D days I had plenty of experience with the "dungeon is just a big pile of XP spread out over several floors" games. That doesn't really appeal to me anymore. But, looking through old D&D modules lately has rekindled an interest in them, but to be used in a different way, such as going there for a purpose to find something or someone, y'know something with a plot behind it that ties into the rest of the story outside. Not just to go in and kill the monster around every corner. My use would also affect the content of said dungeon. So how do you use them? more elaboration in a little while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabascojunkie Posted August 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. To elaborate on content, I mean things like traps. The kind where the 20 foot wide stone block comes across the hall and crushes eveyone to death with no chance to escape, or the poison spikes that hit you and cause instant death. My goal isn't to kill the PCs but provide a survivable challenge. How about others? Are your dungeons ultra-deadly places where the PCs have little chance to survive in places, or just a stop along the way in the story?Thanks for any comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcady Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. Ask these questions: Who built the place? Why? How did they build it? Where have they gone? Why? Who lives there now? Why? How did they obtain 'the lease' on the place? What are they up to? Why? Most classic dungeon crawls have poor answers to all or a signifigant number of these questions, thus why they start to get dull for gaming after a while. If you can answer every one of those questions and do it in a solid way you'll have a good dungeon. A final last note: make sure your map is something you can scale up to your battlemat easily... I can stand it when I open to the map in a module and find it all squiggly or oddly shaped such that I can't work with it in miniatures. For home built modules, if that happens I only have myself to blame. Do I use dungeons? Not often, though my collection of dwarven forge pieces makes me desire to use them more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. arcady has it pretty much dead on. Only a few old D&D modules have "dungeons" that have any kind of sense to them. As far as lethal traps, I try to stay away from them. Remember that as the GM, it isn't your job to kill off the characters. A trap can be a big killer but at least give your players a fair chance to avoid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. When I use a dungeon, it has to have a unifying story. The Necropolis adventure (originally for Dangerous Journeys, but it was recently re-released for d20) was pretty good. The characters, following rumors of vast wealth, venture into an old crypt and awaken a sleeping evil. Once they realize what they've done, they have to go back in, find the secret section they didn't get into previously, and destroy the big bad guy before all of his essential elements get back together and he attains godlike power. The whole thing takes place in an alternate Egypt, and all the monsters have an Egyptian feel, with lots of variations on mummies, sphinxes, and animal-headed humanoids. No orcs just hanging out, drinking and gambling, and no massive dragons milling around in a room with a regular-sized door and no food supply. As far as traps go, most of them should be avoidable by diving for cover. Characters that fail their DEX roll should have a good chance of survival, however, even if they're beat all to hell afterwards. I've never liked the insta-kill traps of a lot of older dungeons (there are a couple in Necropolis, but I handwaved some of them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcady Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. It isn't a Gygax module without at least 3491 instant kill death traps... I've always been a fan of collossal dragons hiding out in 5 foot alcoves. You can have a lot of illogical fun with a random dungeon generator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRThrush Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. Recently my players spent some time in what DnD would call a dungeon. The place was an ancient prison on a glacial mountaintop that had been part of the penal system of a empire that is now extinct. It had been taken over by a cult of murderers akin to the Thugee's of India who worshiped the goddess Kali. They had to sneak in and get back a valuable artifact the cult had stolen when they raided a wagon train. *Isolated locale *Very linear build to direct their activity *Themed for a purpose *Full of enemies of varying skill and ability who would be happy to attack the player on sight - or at least sound an alarm. *I even threw in a couple traps that were left over from it's days as a prison. The current residents found them useful still. I also included some areas that had obviously been demolished to some degree because the new locals foudn them less that inviting. It's the closest thing to a traditional "dungeon" my players have seen in a while. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest taxboy4 Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. Yep, have to agree with the main consensus - old fashioned Dungeons both blow and indeed suck. Come on, 7 levels down and you keep running into monsters guarding treasure - who do they get air down they far? My Dungeons tend to be a cellar or cavern under a temple or a cave system in a mountain the local goblins (Gobins in Hero rock!!) live in. And i mean live. There is long drops (toilets), selling and cooking areas, family areas, bells for alarms. Food gathering parties forage outside. Garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karimarle Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. My players will be going into a 'dungeon' for the first time tomorrow (game time). When designing it, I tried to ask all of the questions arcady mentioned earlier and I think I did fairly well. It isn't the kind of thing I like to use all the time, for just this reason. Dungeon settings normally don't make much sense. That said, maybe I can get some advice/ideas here: Santa Fiona players read no further The group is going into a temple that has appeared in their world from another for a complicated reason (won't go into it now). Under the temple is a secret area where darker, eviller, worship takes place. Most of the 'traps' in the place are creatures and etc. guarding areas against people who don't know the right password, actions, etc. Any ideas on traps that are NOT fightable opponents I could slip in? Note: This is a PBeM game, so I have time to change the dungeon a little if I get a great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. I wouldn't go too much into trap-traps. Guards are the best thing to use for places like that, where people actually live and work. Setting booby-traps everywhere is almost sure to get someone who wasn't supposed to get got, ie one of the temple residents. If you use any at all, they should be in areas that aren't used often, like crypts or the high priest's secret treasure stash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbarron Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. I wouldn't go too much into trap-traps. Guards are the best thing to use for places like that' date=' where people actually live and work. Setting booby-traps everywhere is almost sure to get someone who wasn't supposed to get got, ie one of the temple residents. If you use any at all, they should be in areas that aren't used often, like crypts or the high priest's secret treasure stash.[/quote'] I agree completely. If you don't have the key or if you forgot the password for a door, you just won't get in. Making some kind of death trap in high traffic areas doesn't make sense. Of course, this never mattered in early D&D, so if that is what you are shooting for, do it. However, in a high fantasy game where there is lots of magic, you could have some magical traps that aren't too severe. Something like if you don't know the password but do have some talisman, you still don't get in, but you also don't get hit with the trap. Magic makes traps make more sense (I guess). They can discriminate. Falling ceilings and mechanical pit traps can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. Magical traps are nice too. Have them set off if they don't have the right priest amulet or robes or combination of holy symbol and shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamrok Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. Last time I ran a dungeon-centric game, I framed it like this: Erko is the god of magic and tricks. The preferred way to curry favor with him (and acquire the highest levels of magical power) is to construct elaborate magical deathtraps designed to lure powerful "adventurers" to their deaths - more renown the victim had, the more power the wizard gained from his death. Deaths should be avoidable to the quick or quick witted, and preferable at least mildly amusing in a darkly humerous way. "Dungeons" were engines designed to provide immortality to their designers, as each death that they cause moves the builder a bit closer to his mad deity. This practice is, of course, outlawed in most civilized lands. When a dungeon is discovered, it is destroyed or sealed. Archmage builders know this, and tend to hide them well - but not so well as to keep the greediest of adventurers away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trencher Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. I don't use dungenos much anymore exept as a backdrop for a fight. As I and my players have gotten older, mapdrawing exploring and trapdogding is boring in the long run. Wich means that the ocasional dungenoun crawl has rarer and rarer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutsleeve Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. This thread reminds me of a quote in a Slayers movie. where either Naga or Lina Inverse comes to the mouth of the underground dungeon and say "How come these things always have to be at the lowest level" and then they procede to make a hole that goes all the way down and just fly down it to the treasure chanbe and the being of ultimate evil. In otherwords if fantasy characters knew they would encounter monster laden dungeons with traps and other nastieness why wouldnt they make spells that let them bypass all that. Say Telraths Dungeon Teleportation which teleports them to the bigged mass of gold in an open cave or tunnel system. Or Madrakes Spectral Adventurer which summons an illusionary group of hero's to go into the tunnel system and trip all the traps and kill all the bad guys. Or maybe something that gets you out of the dungeon quick like they usta put in console rpg's. Rope (1" teleportation megascale only to get out of dungeon). This sillieness has been brought to you by the Dork Broadcasting System if you hear this message you know you have an authentic Dork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trencher Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. In otherwords if fantasy characters knew they would encounter monster laden dungeons with traps and other nastieness why wouldnt they make spells that let them bypass all that Because the mad mage who made the place in the first place (there is always a mad mage around) put counterspells/wards/yellow stickers of doom up to stop such nonsense. Actually in my campaign I made it so that magic can’t penetrate the element of earth. Although you could dig a hole but that would take such a vast amount of power that you could just create your own treasure instead and not risk your life at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Kor Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. I don't use treasure as a primary motivating factor, first off. I try to get them involved in some brujah and the adventure part is them trying to extricate themselves from it in as few pieces as possible, preferably one. I will be using a "dungeon" setting soon -- but it is actually just the access tunnels and a few other underground areas beneath the ancient ruins of a city that fell in the "Gith Wars." They've been forced inside what was once a temple to Karaak, an earth deity, which is built into the side of a cliff face -- the city is built in several tiers at the foothills of the mountain range. Each tier has mines, storerooms, some barracks were built there, etc. They have to make it up the three tiers to the tower, fighting the undead remnants of the Gith armies there, where they expect to find an evil wizard they've gotten involved with over the last few sessions. Long story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. In otherwords if fantasy characters knew they would encounter monster laden dungeons with traps and other nastieness why wouldnt they make spells that let them bypass all that. Say Telraths Dungeon Teleportation which teleports them to the bigged mass of gold in an open cave or tunnel system. Or Madrakes Spectral Adventurer which summons an illusionary group of hero's to go into the tunnel system and trip all the traps and kill all the bad guys. Or maybe something that gets you out of the dungeon quick like they usta put in console rpg's. Rope (1" teleportation megascale only to get out of dungeon). The are already there, the players just don't know how to use them. Multiple castings of Passwall, Rock to Mud, Disintegration, Teleport, Creeping Doom, Wall of Stone, Wall of Iron and you're all good. I suppose you could throw in Fireball and Lightning bolt for kicks but falling horizontal (very low, very wide and deep) walls of iron kill better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. There was only one time that I managed (as the wizard) to collect the massive treasure via teleport. First, they sent me in first to see if it was safe. A few minutes later, "Ok, guys, it's clear." (to GM) "Ok, now teleport!" "But, you can't carry all that gold and the party and their equipment!" (to GM) "Exactly. I, with this pile of high-grade treasure, are so out of here." ** POOF ** The rest of party started cursing until the big scary monster wondered who had wandered into its Treasure Room... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that after the wall of iron squishes the baddies, the pit traps are covered and the sliding crush walls can no longer slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabascojunkie Posted September 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. cool, thanks for all the answers. Yeah I pretty much agree with the general consensus that dungeons ain't that much fun anymore, at least not in the hack n slash way they used to be. I'll maybe throw one in occasionally but with nowhere near as many monsters and treasure as in the old days. I'm much more interested in role playing and creating a story with the PC's actually accomplishing something that can affect the game world at large. More Lord of the Rings than Tomb of Horrors. I like the ideas such as the inhabited dungeon, seems more realistic even though may cringe at the thought of realism in a fantasy game. I guess the more proper term would be "logical" . And you know what's funny, on the subject of treasure, as a player I have not much interest in getting lots of it. When I started playing FH about 8 or 9 years ago it was the first fantasy I'd played since DnD in high school. The emphasis was much more on role playing and with all the cool stuff you could do with Hero I didn't even think about the + 18 Vorpal Dragon Decapitator and all that kind of stuff much at all. Although I have yet to play a wizard in Hero. Lots of opportunity there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRThrush Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. I don't use treasure as a primary motivating factor' date=' first off. I try to get them involved in some brujah and the adventure part is them trying to extricate themselves from it in as few pieces as possible, preferably one. /snip Long story. Dang, learn your genre's! We are talking about fantasy games here... leave urban vampires out of it. Oddly, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. Or, you could always camp it up. When a long-running campaign needed a wand so dangerous, so powerful, that it couldn't safely be stored in this dimension, they traveled to OtherRealm to retrieve it. Of course, the wand was placed inside of a dungeon for safe-keeping. Outside of the dungeon entrance, you could see a little logo indicating the builders of the dungeon, right next to the cornerstone. And inside, things just got weirder. There was an empty room, with a faint engraving in the middle of the floor, saying, "This room left intentionally blank". There was the required giant statue of a beastie, with "ruby eyes the size of dinner plates". There were "You are here" maps on the wall, and emergency exit signs. There were barracks, where the orcs could rest, and play a few video games (Gauntlet seemed to be a favorite). And there were huge piles of really weak crates holding metal cylinders with pictures of fruit and vegetables on little pieces of paper glued to the outside. And, since this was OtherRealm , the party's mage had a little problem remembering spells after they were cast. And, in a bit of typecasting, they ended up in a fiendish trap, "The Gameshow of Death", with your hosts Monty Haul (a very powerful demon), and his lovely assistant, Vanna Wight. The appearance wasn't a total loss, as one lucky party member took Door #2, and won the brand new cow! ("with pre-leather exterior, four-hoof drive, and California emission") It was, perhaps, only the second time in my GMing experience, that my group wanted to lynch me. And I normally don't count the first, since it was a Paranoia game. YMMV, JoeG Now Playing: Meat Loaf, "Bat Out of Hell II" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Re: A question about dungeons. On a less comical note I have one good old fashioned dungeon, with tricks, traps, etc that I used. It belonged to a wizard who had from time to time problems with hero types (something to do with human sacrifices...). He was smart enough to know that fighting these people was a dangerous business, so when they turned up, he'd flee into the "dungeon" with them in hot pursuit. Then he'd take off at top speed through the trap and monster-filled place, avoiding the traps and opening the cages on the way through. By the time the heroes got out - if they did - he'd have had time to get ready for a fight, while they were ready for a rest :-) cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.