Musings on Random Musings

[Klytus]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Is it wrong of me to smile evilly when I get the averages on MyLifeIsAverage to 666 ?

 

Not for you, DT. Not for you.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Yeah' date=' that one has bothered me since I first heard it. Normally he does so much better...[/quote']

 

And it would be such an easy fix! Change it to either:

 

"But if this ever changing wor-ld which we live in" (pronounce "world" with two syllables)

 

or

 

"But if this ever changing world in which we liiiiive" (stretch the word "live" out to two beats)

 

Gah. It wouldn't bother me too much but that the guy who drives our carpool always has the radio set to a station that plays that freakin' song all the time. Grrr.

[James Gillen]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

And it would be such an easy fix! Change it to either:

 

"But if this ever changing wor-ld which we live in" (pronounce "world" with two syllables)

 

or

 

"But if this ever changing world in which we liiiiive" (stretch the word "live" out to two beats)

 

Gah. It wouldn't bother me too much but that the guy who drives our carpool always has the radio set to a station that plays that freakin' song all the time. Grrr.

 

The first works better, especially since Paul often sings the "world" as an extended syllable in concert.

 

JG

[Cancer]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I have been beaten by Cancer takes a whole different meaning on this site. And you could not say it elsewhere without causing upset.

Especially when you are Cancer.

[Vondy]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

this would be like a person completing a bachelor of theology. Completing this doesn't mean a person is to be addressed as a priest.

 

Is this a good analogy?

 

Its complicated.

 

An academic degree in theology is an academic course of study you take prior to entering the ordination process. You can be a theology major with no position, or only a lay position. And you can be ordained, "of the cloth," without a position. Its two subtly different things. But the distinction lies in this: christian ordination means vested authority to perform sacraments. And the way Jews and Christians use the word "priest" is radically different. In Judaism, a priest is a descendant of Aaron, usually presumptively by family tradition, though some few families have scrolls copied through the generations dating back to the early second temple era. The priestly rites, or sacraments, are theirs - even if they are an ignoramus. However, outside the life of the temple cult, you really don't need a priest for Jewish religious life.

 

Any sufficiently educated Jew can lead the community. A rabbi isn't a priest and rabbinic ordination does not empower him to perform sacraments as Christian ordination does. The commandments outside the temple service belong to the nation as a whole. Ordination today is the sanction of the (modern) religious community to decide ritual issues on behalf of a local community who chooses to listen. And, in truth, a sufficiently righteous man of significant scholarship can answer these questions without what passes for ordination today. The famed Yisrael Meir Kagen, known as the chofetz chaim, was considered the greatest halachic decisor of lithuania during the first half of the 20th century. He didn't have semichah (ordination) until he applied for a passport and needed to list "rabbi" as his profession. He ultimately went to one of his peers and asked him to test him for semichah, which resulted in great embarrassment on the part of the rabbi approached, who famously asked "I am supposed to test you?"

 

Ancient semichah was one thing and one thing only: magesterial power; the authority to make binding and enforceable decisions on matters of ritual, civil, or criminal law while sitting on a court of 3, 23, or 71. The largest court, the sanhedrin in the chamber of stone in the temple in Jerusalem, was also empowered to legislate for all ritual matters and matters of interpretation. It was sort of like a big bearded SCOTUS and Senate of ritual matters all in one (the check being the king, which we can translate as "secular government"). It also allowed decisions on some matters as an individual in the absence of a court convening. Their decision was binding and could be enforced. It made you a magisterial force in a world where the king and his government were one branch of power and the religious courts the other. There is no rabbi alive with that power today, even in Israel. The only tangible power rabbis exercise is over marriage and divorce, and even there its a matter of long-entrenched communal necessity rather than enforceable power. Or rather, the mores run so deep that its not a question.

 

Real rabbinic power may reassert itself slowly in our lifetimes (or our children's lifetimes), but for now, the modern institution of semichah (ordination) is just social sanction to make decisions in ritual law for a community who cares to listen. Most "rabbis" today never take the tests for Jewish criminal and civil law because its not necessary to the role they fill and would, therefore, not be qualified to serve as A Rabbi of Old were we to see the rebirth of the genuine article. Indeed, so important is the distinction that the Babylonian Talmud referred to those with "real semichah" in Israel as "Rabbi" and those without it in Bavel as "Rav." The material distinction is immense. Modern Jewry has basically forgotten it. Ancient ordination was a practical matter: every nation must have courts and ours were rooted in Torah. Modern ordination is a sociological convenience whose power rests in "how dare you!" rather than "seize him up!"

 

Living amongst gentiles, we decided we wanted pretty certificates and ritual machers because gentiles had them so we created a test and certificate system to mimic universities and appointed "men of the cloth" when, in truth, we are all, each and every one of us, expected to study, know, and perform the law. Few who become ritual machers today bother to become "dayyanim" (rabbinic magistrates), and modern rabbis are tested and given social approbation to rule on ritual matters which, in theory, any talmud chocham (erudite Jewish scholar) could decide whether he'd taken the tests or not. It confuses the issue and creates false perceptions. People want a leader they can ascribe pomp and circumstance to, and in the absence of a community hemorrhaging erudite scholars, you need someone who knows which end is up. The modern institution is a dissonant necessity for all but the rarest of communities. But really, a community filled with talmudei chochamim doesn't need a rabbi. What on earth for?

 

The real deal requires one who has it to lay his hands (semichah) on the student and grant him sanction to rule all aspects of law. In the ancient world that meant granting power. You were entering a man into the pool of judges and the rule was: a court that cannot enforce its decisions is not a court. In the modern world it usually means granting social approbation that isn't strictly needed for what most rabbis actually do, which is to decide ritual matters. Any Jew with sufficient mastery of our basic texts can decide these matters - and while he must be respectful - may do so against a majority in disputed matters (insofar as he has a cogent scriptural-talmudic argument to make) because we have no sanhedrin in the chamber of stone to decide such disputes. And haven't in a long time. We do have their precedents, though, which we must live by. Indeed, until we do have a sanhedrin again the halachic system is a Pagani being pushed by foot through hole we cut in the floorboards. We've turned the world's hottest sports car into a Flintstone's car.

 

Yaba-daba-doo.

 

In other words, unless you are dealing with a dayyan, who are not so common, your local orthodox rabbi is probably just a Talmud Chocham (a scriptural-talmudic scholar) who has been invested in a shadow of glory by a community who has taken it upon themselves to listen to him and trust in his knowledge because he's jumped through the hoops to get a piece of paper. In truth, he's what the talmud calls a "rav." The paper, itself, does not necessarily mean he's the most learned man in the community, or that outside the running of the synagogue, he has any more authority than a talmud chocham who did not jump through those hoops. Indeed, we have two separate sections of the code of law: hilchot kavod rav (the honor due a formally appointed communal leader - and note it uses the talmud's term "rav") and hilchot kavod talmud chocham (the honor due to a scholar). While we hope the "rav" is a talmud chocham, and he doesn't deserve his position if he's not, they aren't one and the same.

 

We call people "rabbi" out pragmatic respect for a communal leader due to the normative absence of scholarship among modern laity. But it doesn't make a chicken-hawk the mighty eagle. Only a modern dayyan is qualified to be real rabbi should the rabbinic courts emerge with real power as opposed to the smoke-em-if-you've-got-em courts we've got today. I've taken the tests for ritual and marital law (marriage and divorce). I'm working, ever so slowly, through the tests for dayyanut. As for me, I have no position and desire no position. I feel the routine exercise of authority is corrosive to the soul. As is adulation. Few men can handle either without detriment to their character. Or, at least, I can't. I do not desire to be called rabbi. Even after I finish with all the tests. I'm just taking them because, if you know you've got a test coming, you study harder.

[Bazza]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Its complicated.

 

Please excuse my snipping of your post, heartful thanks for writing that. Very informative and yes sounds very complicated. It seems that you are taking this religious instruction; not to be a "member of the cloth" or communal religious leader; nor wish to have power, authority, or status ascribed by society; but doing as you wish to know your religion better and master it as any lay person is supposed to. Also to live piously that enlivens the soul.

 

What I was trying to ask, and realise now my question lacked depth for you to see where I was coming from. About 5 years ago while I came across the Oxford University web site. On the Bachelor of Theology, under careers:

 

While some Theology graduates go on to further study and research to become professional theologians, others will move into different areas. Recent graduates have gone on to careers as diverse as law, the Civil Service, social work, education, media, publishing, banking, management consultancy, accountancy, personnel management, teaching, the police force and, in some instances, the Church. (http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/courses/theology/theology.html)

 

The expectation within society within my experience, is that those doing Theology at University plan on enter the clergy -- eventually become Christian priests -- religious leaders of their community. As the quote above makes clear that completing that theology course opens up a wide range of other non-clergy careers, eg banking, lawyer, accountant. (As an aside one would think that a finance/banking, law, business/accounting degrees would be more suitable for those professions, not theology...).

 

My analogy was that you have gone and completed what amounts to something similar to a bachelor of theology. The expectation of society is that it is the first step (or an additional step) to enter professional religious life; in Christianity a priest/minister/reverend/vicar etc); and I assume within Jewish society a Rabbi. However this assumption is erroneous as the quote above states: one does not have to enter the clergy. I was trying to draw a parallel between you completing something similar to a Bachelor of Theology but not pursuing the societal expectation to become a professional religious communal leader (ie 'man of the cloth').

[death tribble]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Not for you' date=' DT. Not for you. [/quote']

 

And I did it again today

[Vondy]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

The expectation within society within my experience, is that those doing Theology at University plan on enter the clergy -- eventually become Christian priests -- religious leaders of their community. As the quote above makes clear that completing that theology course opens up a wide range of other non-clergy careers, eg banking, lawyer, accountant. (As an aside one would think that a finance/banking, law, business/accounting degrees would be more suitable for those professions, not theology...).

 

My analogy was that you have gone and completed what amounts to something similar to a bachelor of theology. The expectation of society is that it is the first step (or an additional step) to enter professional religious life; in Christianity a priest/minister/reverend/vicar etc); and I assume within Jewish society a Rabbi. However this assumption is erroneous as the quote above states: one does not have to enter the clergy. I was trying to draw a parallel between you completing something similar to a Bachelor of Theology but not pursuing the societal expectation to become a professional religious communal leader (ie 'man of the cloth').

 

In that context I would say the only difference is that in the christian world the course of theology study is a preparation for entering an ordination program, whereas, in Judaism, it is the ordination program. There are three kinds of semichah. The course of study most rabbis take is 3-4 years and is roughly a BA equivalent. Adding martial, conversion, and legal procedure is another 2 years, give or take. And dayyanut, which takes 3-4 years, is considered a doctoral equivalent. Oddly, in the diaspora, you basically have two paths: just take the basic rabbinic course of study and be done with it, or add dayyanut with only some dayyanim learning the marital/conversion/procedural part. This is because you only need one man on a court of three who knows those pieces (ordained or not) to rule on marriage, divorce, and conversion. He can just grab two other righteous Jews (perferably talmudei chochamim) and say "we're the court." In Israel, however, you often have people who, upon finishing the basic course, do one or the other, but not both. I don't know where I'm at in terms of academic equivalency. I just want to know.

[Old Man]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

And it would be such an easy fix! Change it to either:

 

"But if this ever changing wor-ld which we live in" (pronounce "world" with two syllables)

 

or

 

"But if this ever changing world in which we liiiiive" (stretch the word "live" out to two beats)

 

Gah. It wouldn't bother me too much but that the guy who drives our carpool always has the radio set to a station that plays that freakin' song all the time. Grrr.

 

 

Is the original lyric "in which we live in" or "in which we're living"? Not that it's any less irritating. Especially since it's otherwise such an awesome song.

[archermoo]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Is the original lyric "in which we live in" or "in which we're living"? Not that it's any less irritating. Especially since it's otherwise such an awesome song.

 

I'm pretty sure the original is "in which we live in".

[teh bunneh]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Looking in the top 10 hits on Google, all the lyrics sites agree it's "in which we live in."

[Old Man]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Yeah, but the lyrics you find with google are almost always wrong, ime. It's like some bozo posted the wrong lyrics online somewhere and they got copies all over the net.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Yeah' date=' but the lyrics you find with google are almost always wrong, ime. It's like some bozo posted the wrong lyrics online somewhere and they got copies all over the net.[/quote']

If you post the wrong lyrics, but close enough, you may be less likely to get sued; or so I suppose.

[Vondy]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

This style of journalism is difficult' date=' expensive, and generates less readership than a fluff piece on the Kardashians. But it's not dead... yet.[/quote']

 

It is the exception to the rule. But you can do "research journalism," which is finding and presenting in-depth articles topics of interest rather than hot, this minute current events. And the internet allows you to post entire interviews without resorting to sound-bytes. In theory, while having a journalist spend a year or more on a big story remains the province of newspapers, who often have an investigative reporter on staff, you can actually present more in-depth information, and more complete information, than was possible in the print format or a time-restricted television spot. Its a question of editorial will. We're very lucky. We have an investigative reporter who does a radio show and sends us articles "for the cause." He's been at it a long time and he knows what he's doing. But the expense is the key. Most places don't want to budget for it.

[Old Man]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Yes, expense is the key. From a pure cost-consumer standpoint it makes a lot more sense to do badly researched fluff gossip pieces that pull in ten times as many listeners as the investigative journalism piece that takes three months to put together.

[lemming]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Looking in the top 10 hits on Google' date=' all the lyrics sites agree it's "in which we live in."[/quote']

 

Just listened to the song and that is what is at least used first.

[Cancer]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Yes' date=' expense is the key. From a pure cost-consumer standpoint it makes a lot more sense to do badly researched fluff gossip pieces that pull in ten times as many listeners as the investigative journalism piece that takes three months to put together.[/quote']

 

Depends some on if you have a picture of a target demographic, and if so, what demographic you're trying to reach, too.

 

I am not yet to the point of taking notes on who the adverts are for fluff-impulse-yank pseudojournalism and then boycotting those, but it may reach that point. I have done it before, for personal hot-button reasons.

[Bazza]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

In that context I would say the only difference is that in the christian world the course of theology study is a preparation for entering an ordination program' date=' whereas, in Judaism, it is the ordination program. There are three kinds of semichah. The course of study most rabbis take is 3-4 years and is roughly a BA equivalent. Adding martial, conversion, and legal procedure is another 2 years, give or take. And dayyanut, which takes 3-4 years, is considered a doctoral equivalent. Oddly, in the diaspora, you basically have two paths: just take the basic rabbinic course of study and be done with it, or add dayyanut with only some dayyanim learning the marital/conversion/procedural part. This is because you only need one man on a court of three who knows those pieces (ordained or not) to rule on marriage, divorce, and conversion. He can just grab two other righteous Jews (perferably talmudei chochamim) and say "we're the court." In Israel, however, you often have people who, upon finishing the basic course, do one or the other, but not both. I don't know where I'm at in terms of academic equivalency. I just want to know.[/quote']

 

Cool, thanks for the additional information. Is my analogy correct that you are taking this study and tests as a prudent Jew wishing to master your religion, act piously and enliven your soul with its wisdom and knowledge?

 

Re: Rabbi of Old:

Ancient semichah was one thing and one thing only: magesterial power; the authority to make binding and enforceable decisions on matters of ritual' date=' civil, or criminal law while sitting on a court of 3, 23, or 71. The largest court, the sanhedrin in the chamber of stone in the temple in Jerusalem, was also empowered to legislate for all ritual matters and matters of interpretation. It was sort of like a big bearded SCOTUS and Senate of ritual matters all in one (the check being the king, which we can translate as "secular government"). It also allowed decisions on some matters as an individual in the absence of a court convening. Their decision was binding and could be enforced. It made you a magisterial force in a world where the king and his government were one branch of power and the religious courts the other. There is no rabbi alive with that power today, even in Israel. The only tangible power rabbis exercise is over marriage and divorce, and even there its a matter of long-entrenched communal necessity rather than enforceable power. Or rather, the mores run so deep that its not a question. [/quote']

 

Thinking about Christian analogues to the Rabbis of Old I've come up with 1) Cardinal Richelieu & 2) the Inquisitors of the Spanish Inquisition. I'm sure there are more, however these stick out to me.

[Klytus]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I have an electric razor' date=' but I hardly use it. There's something about using a brush to lather soap and spread it across my face that I find therapeutic.[/quote']

 

When I was clean-shaven, I also much preferred the way I felt after using a blade to shave than the electric. However, now that I have a beard and mustache I keep trimmed and shaped, the electric is simply too practical for me not to use it.

[Klytus]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I can't stand tipping. I hate to be a dick' date=' but I'm supposed to give a guy money for moving my suitcase in and out of the shuttle? Without asking?[/quote']

 

I'm with you on this. I'm more than happy to give a nice tip to the delivery guy who brings me my food when I'm too sick or too lazy to go get it myself. But for unsolicited service? Keep yer hands to yourself, pal!

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

Just a little heads-up that I'll be reducing my Board-time the next few days, until the last part of my move is done and I get an Internet hook-up. I will have access from the hospital, but I think I will be a bit preoccupied there. ^^

 

See ya.

I was about to worry why you would be in a hospital; then I remembered you're aiming for a medical career.

[James Gillen]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I can't stand tipping. I hate to be a dick' date=' but I'm supposed to give a guy money for moving my suitcase in and out of the shuttle? Without asking?[/quote']

 

Or that guy who wipes my windshield when I'm at a red light. I hope $2 is enough for some deodorant.

 

JG

[James Gillen]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

For reference, Andre the Giant was just over 7' tall.

 

http://deadspin.com/5746557/watch-giant-female-wrestler-isis-the-amazon-toy-with-a-horny-cleveland-anchorman

 

"Bonus Video: Isis helps with the weather."

[archermoo]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I have an electric razor' date=' but I hardly use it. There's something about using a brush to lather soap and spread it across my face that I find therapeutic.[/quote']

 

I have both an electric and a bladed razor. I use both depending on a variety of factors, which mostly boils down to me using the electric if I'm pressed for time, but want to shave.

 

The bladed razor is a double edged razor. My beard is tough enough that I generally replace the blade every time I shave. I use a brush and shaving soap, and I've found that getting the soap into the brush and making the lather on my face works better than making the lather in the cup and spreading that. It is more time consuming than the electric, but gives a better shave, and is more comfortable. On the down side, I'm more likely to end up bleeding after shaving with a blade.

[archermoo]

Re: Musings on Random Musings

 

I can't stand tipping. I hate to be uncool' date=' but I'm supposed to give a guy money for moving my suitcase in and out of the shuttle? Without asking?[/quote']

 

Not a big fan of tipping either. The idea that I, as the customer, am expected to directly compensate someone else's employees rather than their employer doing so rankles.