SuperBlue Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Sorry, this is the first time I've been able to get to a computer... Last Friday I ran my first Champs Game. Basically the heroes were going up against some Genetically Engineered Creatures produced by Telios for Viper (sort of a Godzilla-ish creature that spits acid). They managed to dispatch the juvenielle (SP?) Terrorsaurs, and when then adult showed up (Same Size as Telios' Dynamosaur, similar Characteristics too) the two bricks in the part did a combined attack and both did move-throughs. I had ruled that Move-Throughs would allow them to exceed the DC Limit - My Mistake. They did enough damage to the Terrorsaur that they KO'd it in one hit. I cried. Needless to say, after that Move-throughs no longer go above the DC Limit in my campaign. Hm... what about Haymakers I wonder? Pushing would obviously exceed the DC Limit *Shrug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry Never allow what you've written down to interfere with a good story. If your monster goes down too easy, you have a couple of easy options. a) the REALLY big one shows up (up everything 50%) "I thought THAT was the momma!" (hero pointing to unconscious Terrorsaur) add STUN. Lots of STUN. c) add Damage Reduction. I had a similar situation happen when I first introduced Moebius, Master of Time (Kang ripoff). I had made his defenses and STUN too low for the group of heroes, who proceeded to cream him in one phase. I blinked once behind the screen, announced that the last EB tore the robotic duplicate apart, and the "real" Moebius appeared behind them (suitably modified) to continue with a much more entertaining fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry Sorry, this is the first time I've been able to get to a computer... Last Friday I ran my first Champs Game. Basically the heroes were going up against some Genetically Engineered Creatures produced by Telios for Viper (sort of a Godzilla-ish creature that spits acid). They managed to dispatch the juvenielle (SP?) Terrorsaurs, and when then adult showed up (Same Size as Telios' Dynamosaur, similar Characteristics too) the two bricks in the part did a combined attack and both did move-throughs. I had ruled that Move-Throughs would allow them to exceed the DC Limit - My Mistake. They did enough damage to the Terrorsaur that they KO'd it in one hit. I cried. Needless to say, after that Move-throughs no longer go above the DC Limit in my campaign. Hm... what about Haymakers I wonder? Pushing would obviously exceed the DC Limit *Shrug* Have you looked at the Velocity Factor Option for Move Throughs and Move Bys? It tones the dice down a bit. It's on page 293 I think, or thereabouts. My advice is to try something else besides damage caps that include maneuvers like the previously suggested damage reduction on the big bads or more stun, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry And a good bit of Knockback Resistance can discourage move-throughs...at least, after the first one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry *LOL* KO'ing the Terrosaur? I can relate. I once ran the Terrorsaur against a player in a solo game. The previously-mentioned "White Knight", with Sebastian Shaw-like kinetic energy control and strength absorption. Most of his superhuman STR was in a multipower, along with other slots that were various increased defenses. i.e. -- he could focus his KE energy control on either offense or defense, but not at the same time. (In addition to his base strength and defenses, which were moderately superhuman in their own right). The last multipower slot however, was 15" of Knockback Resistance. After the Terrorsaur failed to damage him substantially in the first couple of passes, and after he managed to bean it a couple of good ones with thrown cars, I had it put its head down and charge. It was a tyrannosaurus, after all. *raarrrrrgh* ... and as soon as he saw it start moving, White Knight Aborted to a Defense Power Framework alllocation, and set to receive charge. *WHAM* The freakin' Terrorsaur hit him, bounced off, went five hexes backwards, and landed completely unconscious. After this playtest session(*), I de-sanc'ed White Knight for campaign use. Great character concept... but just a bit too crunchy for a low-power game. (*) Which was /why/ I was running him solo -- I had a suspicion that this one was going to break the power curve, and I wanted to confirm or deny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry I always favored Damage Reduction in order to model dinosaurs, elephants, and other massive creatures that seem to be able to suck up incredible amounts of damage for little effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry And a good bit of Knockback Resistance can discourage move-throughs...at least' date=' after the first one. [/quote'] A definite must for a large monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry And a good bit of Knockback Resistance can discourage move-throughs...at least' date=' after the first one. [/quote'] After my speedster knocked himself out by doing a Move-through on Ogre when he was braced, I concur. My GM is however letting me have my character train against that by using the danger room and run headlong into a semi padded wall over and over again. Justification for buying PD with the limitations that it only works vs KB, Throws, and self inlficted damage from Movement based attacks. End of Derailment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry I generally don't have a problem with move-throughs violating DC caps unless they're obviously the character's preferred maneuver (as shown by things such as lots of extra levels that just apply to move-throughs, and extra defenses against the recoil), because they're usually desperation moves. The DCV penalty bites, and the to-hit penalty gets worse the more damage you're trying to do ... and again, that pesky recoil. Now, against Jogira there, the hitting isn't so much of an issue because he's, y'know, gignormous ... however, I agree that Knockback Resistance is a great thing for discouraging move-throughs. Story time ... Back in 4E, my wife had a character ... a really messed-up one, but it was primarily a melee fighter who often did move-throughs IN A PINCH. That's the important part. Anyway, she's up against Shamrock ... it's her and him, the last two standing. Winner Take All. She's at about half health for her pseudo-brickish self (30 STR, plus HA), and Shamrock's taken a few STUN here and there. Shamrock has a held action. She decides to move-through; usually, her defenses are such that she'll only take a few stun from the recoil. Shamrock uses his held action to BRACE AGAINST KNOCKBACK. My wife's damage dice come up with more sixes than she's ever rolled IN HER ENTIRE LIFE PUT TOGETHER ... including the Knockback check dice, which come up boxcars. Shamrock doesn't move. DOUBLE K.O.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry I agree, Damage Reduction is a must for any really big monster thats supposed to be really tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry Give them another big moster. In addition to the automatic Growth knockback resistance, it should be Bracing, havie Clinging and have some extra KB resistance. After those move throughs, we'll see who's crying! Toss in 3/4 Damage Reduction only vs Move Throughs if you want to really be a jerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry Big monsters should have damage reduction, but ideally, only against attacks from smaller foes or non-area effects. If you're 50+ feet tall, a dagger should not do very much to you. Being dumped in magma...that's different. If you built all giant monsters with blanket damage reduction, they'd never be able to defeat eachother. The post-12 recoveries might undo all the inflicted damage for a whole turn, depending on how much DR you gave them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry Good idea. So, about how much would a "Not Against Sufficiently Large Attacks" be worth?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Re: My Players Made me Cry do this: If the players KO the really big monster in a phase or three, don't worry. That's when the incubating Alien matures and pops out.... Yeah - that'll teach 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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