So Viper, huh.

[Chimpira]

I was interested in how Viper is used in your campaigns. Do your players (or youself) see them as a true threat or a bunch of guys that are just there to get pounded?

[Enforcer84]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

I was interested in how Viper is used in your campaigns. Do your players (or youself) see them as a true threat or a bunch of guys that are just there to get pounded?

Depends on the heroes in question.

[GreyGuardian]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

I just started a champions campaign (last time I ran champions (instead of lower lvl heroic games) it was 3rd edition. Anyway, VIPER is as dangerous as you want to make them. The gear in the VIPER source book has the potential to be very lethal if VIPER is prepared for the heroes. Which is why it's important for the heroes to not let VIPER prepare / control when and where battles take place. Anyway my intent is to make VIPER something to be seriously concerned about.

[Chuckg]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

I was interested in how Viper is used in your campaigns. Do your players (or youself) see them as a true threat or a bunch of guys that are just there to get pounded?

 

In the New Sentinels campaign, we fear VIPER greatly, and view it as a truly major villain force.

 

... oh, sure, we can stomp an entire VIPER nest into pate. If it's a particularly small nest, most of us can solo it.

 

But VIPER itself? The entire organization?

 

*brrrrrrrrrr*

[Chimpira]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

In the New Sentinels campaign, we fear VIPER greatly, and view it as a truly major villain force.

 

... oh, sure, we can stomp an entire VIPER nest into pate. If it's a particularly small nest, most of us can solo it.

 

But VIPER itself? The entire organization?

 

*brrrrrrrrrr*

I am going to try and get that reaction from my players. I was just curious. I had a conversation with my old GM last night and told him my plans for Viper in my game. He remarked that he used to think of Viper as just kind of thuggish. He wished that he was in my game. heh

[Chuckg]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

OK, some more VIPER bits:

 

Although Jeff has neither confirmed nor denied our suspicion, our consensus on VIPER is this:

 

Like the iceberg, most of what is truly dangerous about VIPER is not visible.

 

As near as I can figure from reading the sourcebook, if you pulled out a Cosmic Cube and obliterated every Nest on the planet, you'd kill off only about 1/4th or 1/3rd of VIPER's capability. Not it's manpower #'s... it's capability.

 

Between the directly-controlled resources of the Council of Thirty, and the Five Supreme Nests, VIPER's entire Nest structure looks less like the bedrock of the organizaiton's power, and more like VIPER's combination distraction and farm team system. As the old 4e DEMON used Demonspawn, so does the inner circles of VIPER use the Viper Nests -- an entire decoy organization for PRIMUS and UNTIL to go chase, and to believe that it is the true organization, while the *real* base of power hides invisibly within the outer structure.

 

And thus, the vast majority of the superhero and law enforcement response goes towards combatting VIPER''s Nests... and as such, doing absolutely *nothing* to stop, or even notice, VIPER's true core of power, or it's long-term plans.

 

BTW, have I said lately that I really, *really* respect the hell out of Roger Essec? That guy's like Animated Vandal Savage(*) when it comes to busting out the sheer villainous mastermind coolness points.

 

 

 

 

(*) This is as opposed to Comics Vandal Savage, who's an overrated dillwad.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

OK, some more VIPER bits:

 

Although Jeff has neither confirmed nor denied our suspicion, our consensus on VIPER is this:

 

Like the iceberg, most of what is truly dangerous about VIPER is not visible.

 

As near as I can figure from reading the sourcebook, if you pulled out a Cosmic Cube and obliterated every Nest on the planet, you'd kill off only about 1/4th or 1/3rd of VIPER's capability. Not it's manpower #'s... it's capability.

 

Between the directly-controlled resources of the Council of Thirty, and the Five Supreme Nests, VIPER's entire Nest structure looks less like the bedrock of the organizaiton's power, and more like VIPER's combination distraction and farm team system. As the old 4e DEMON used Demonspawn, so does the inner circles of VIPER use the Viper Nests -- an entire decoy organization for PRIMUS and UNTIL to go chase, and to believe that it is the true organization, while the *real* base of power hides invisibly within the outer structure.

 

And thus, the vast majority of the superhero and law enforcement response goes towards combatting VIPER''s Nests... and as such, doing absolutely *nothing* to stop, or even notice, VIPER's true core of power, or it's long-term plans.

 

BTW, have I said lately that I really, *really* respect the hell out of Roger Essec? That guy's like Animated Vandal Savage(*) when it comes to busting out the sheer villainous mastermind coolness points.

 

 

 

 

(*) This is as opposed to Comics Vandal Savage, who's an overrated dillwad.

Not to mention that if you had the power to wipe out every nest, Nama would likely get a premonition and that could get nasty. I'd like to see someone take on Viperia or Viper-X while dealing with a full squad of VIPER agents at the same time. It wouldn't be pretty and unless well planned, I would see one of the core hero group getting killed.

 

In my world, VIPER is powerful. The nests I have developed to fit the three placed in Millenium City are a range from Push-Over to Experienced. If they eliminate one, a new one will appear and this one will be nothing short of being Experienced. The players are going to need to overcome their Code vs. Killing to deal a strong blow to them.

 

The best plan is my Troy: City of Luxury nest. I have a good deal of it planned out. The nest is the best of the best. Agents and Squads were pulled from many prestigious nests for this Nest. They are so good, that there is an entire squad for monitoring every agents action so that there is no trail. They will not intially be using any Combat Squads because they need to make sure they are well established.

 

Troy: City of Luxury is a city that will have a final population of 1 million. Every resident has one thing in common, a family net worth of at least $5,000,000 or at least $20,000 that they could freely spend for a vacation pass. They will be bringing in more money than any other nest and they have no room for failure.

 

Eventually, my player's team is getting called in to help locate and remove the VIPER nest. This is going to be one awesome series of games. The best of the best versus my team. I'm looking forward to this one a whole lot.

[Blue]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

So far they've been a joke to the PCs. But that was by design. I want escalate what they bring to the fight each time. First time out I thought I made them too easy and that they might have bored the players. Their first comment. "Why can't we have more fights like that!"

 

(Answer: Because with this many heroes there would have to be about 30 viper agents in order to make it interesting, and I'd lose track of everything!)

[Super Squirrel]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

I think I'll make a VIPER Super Organizational Utility HTA program for keeping track of large scale VIPER battles. You supply the miniatures.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

VIPER's actions in my campaign have mostly been behind-the-scenes to this point, but that will eventually change. Early on, the PCs realized that Green Dragon was working with VIPER for some reason. They found out at least some of said reason during their first significant encounter with VIPER, in which they fought several guys who were all fighting just like Green Dragon. They subsequently found out the guys had been implanted with skillsoft implants - not to mention cortical bombs. Apparently they were prototypes for some VIPER experiment, and they were going on the rampage in a museum to cover up a theft. Where that all goes remains to be seen.

 

In any case, the 5E version of VIPER is a very significant threat, definitely *not* just a bunch of guys to be pounded on.

[Metaphysician]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

IMHO, VIPER as an organization is a genuine mega"villain," in the same sense that Dr Destroyer and Takofanes are. Absent serious, constant opposition, they *will* take over the world.

 

Or, perhaps it'd be better to say that Edgar Essec, the Supreme Serpent, is a genuine megavillain. Its just that he uses a different weapon than the others. Dr Destroyer uses advanced technology. Takofanes uses dark magic. Essec's "weapon," however, is VIPER itself.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

Screenshot #1

[RavensPath]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

Viper in my game 'Project: Mongoose' (on Hero Central) is very very deadly. The team was put together for express purpose of defeating Viper.

 

I won't say too much as I know many of the players read the boards, but they are tough. Game set up included Viperia slaughtering the UN Security Council.

 

There is much more to come that will suprise, dismay and maybe delight the players.

 

As I said in the campaign info.

 

"This isn't your parent's VIPER."

[DoctorItron]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

In the campaign I'm GMing, game history is that superpowers have only existed for a few years. VIPER is an old organized crime group, a rival of the mob. VIPER started the campaign as little more than thugs with good equipment, but said equipment was limited to real-world tech. The PCs could sweep through VIPER squads rather easily at the start of the campaign, since VIPER wasn't prepared for fighting superheroes.

 

Now that the campaign is 2 years old, VIPER is a much bigger threat, even though the PCs have grown from 350 points to ~ 550. Here are some things that made VIPER get tougher and smarter as the campaign evolved:

 

1) Temporarily slowed down the criminal ops and focused on inventing better armor and weapons.

 

2) Began compiling a roster of mercenary supervillains.

 

3) Hired Teleios to create the Super Serpent Serum. Home-grown supervillains can be more reliable than mercenaries.

 

4) The PCs learned about one of VIPER's leaders. She's an ancient dragon, complete with magic spell pool.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

In the campaign I'm GMing, game history is that superpowers have only existed for a few years.

 

4) The PCs learned about one of VIPER's leaders. She's an ancient dragon, complete with magic spell pool.

 

Uhm... how does a dragon become ancient in a few years?

[paigeoliver]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

Uhm... how does a dragon become ancient in a few years?

 

Suspension of disbelief?

[Metaphysician]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

I thought it was more like "been around for a long time, only founded VIPER recently"??

[freakboy6117]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

or viper is the latest incarnation of the dragons ancient organization originally its servants and priest later including deadly assasins and mystics

[Superskrull]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

Aw, c'mon. It's soooo obvious to me. Two years was just enough time to bump her from the 'Very Old' to 'Ancient' age bracket for whatever monochromatic wyrm she is.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

Hasn't anyone heard of time travel?

[Superskrull]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

VIPER in my game is like an onion, it's a smelly thing that adds to the flavor of a scenario. Wait, no, that's not it. VIPER is like an onion because it's got all those layers. Well, regardless of possible smell, I tend to use VIPER in several ways, or did until my game went on hiatus this spring.

 

As a side note, this a campaign world rooted in 4th Ed for the world structure, though time travel antics have caused the insertion of elements of 5th ed due to interference at a few key points. Most notable would be the 'hiccup' that resulted from Viperia (4th ed) having the chance to remove Malachite from the timeline after she had been trapped along with the PCs in a series of uncontrolled time jumps. When she returned, she found a new Viperia (5th Ed) where she was supposed to be and another version of herself fighting crime as Ultragirl. Viperia is not happy at having fixed things only to find them still broken.

 

VIPER is an organization in transition in my game. Sure, you've got the whole VIPER leader & nests and cool weapons aspect, you've got the supervillain research projects and growing set of metahuman operatives, you've even had COIL reabsorbed into the power structure after a series of behind-the-scene conflicts and bargains but the big twist is that there doesn't seem to be any one guy in charge right now.

 

On the one side, you've got the whole green-armored blaster-toting legion of mooks currently under the overall control of King Cobra and his Round Table of the Reptile Kingdom while on the other, you have a corporate board of directors who are trying to figure out how to keep this scaly loon from bringing in the superheros like a bunch of flying bulldozers on a condemned building while trying to keep making a profit from the fruits of crime and illicit research.

Then there's the research branches. Those boys are building a whole series of catastrophes just waiting to blow up in VIPER's collective faces. After all, they think they've recently perfected a means of making scads of legal cash.

 

The real mess is in the views of the player characters and attached NPCs. From what they've seen, VIPER is going mobile. While there are still many "permanent" bases (whatever permanent means when living howitzers roam the earth wrapped in spandex) in various places across the globe, there now seems to be a sort of skeleton crew of VIPER at many of these bases who are then reinforced by temporary additions of robots, trained operatives and superhumans. Apparently, VIPER is trying to tailor their efforts to local specifications and capabilities. At the same time, VIPER has turned up at various defunct manufacturing facilities and reactivated them for short periods before leaving again. VIPER superhumans captured by PCs are still languishing in prisons rather than the customary revolving door policy that used to be procedure. Many of the VIPER operations disrupted by PRIMUS since '99 seem to be what has been termed 'McVIPER franchises' where some nutter and his band of minions has bought a 'VIPER Starter Kit' and started his own little crime syndicate.

There are a few other things for PCs to chew on:

-haven't been any widescale plans/projects by VIPER since '95

-RAVEN & the ReDirection Cartel have resurfaced as apparent independents again

-there is evidence that VIPER may have been cloning celebrities

-a rampaging superstrong variant of Captain Future (GAC) from 'a' future is supposedly here to destroy the plans of the 'Gamma Mutates' who had taken over his time. All evidence points to them being derived from the COIL gene and using VIPER technology.

-most non-COIL VIPER superhumans have dropped out of sight since King Cobra moved in

[DoctorItron]

Re: So Viper, huh.

 

Uhm... how does a dragon become ancient in a few years?

 

The apparent "dragon is ancient" and "superpowers are new" contradiction was easily dealt with. It's more of a "superpowers are new to recorded history". How can I explain this without giving away too much to my players?

 

Maybe the dragon was around in ancient China, during a prior "age of magic". The dragon hibernated when magic faded and woke up a few years ago. She joined or took control of VIPER, which already existed, and formed it into a major threat.

 

Or, maybe the dragon didn't hibernate when magic faded. She stayed around in human form, sans magic powers, and was instrumental in creating VIPER.