Nero's Boot Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I just ordered Conquerors, Killers and Crooks from Warehouse 23, and, thanks to choosing to have next-day air shipping, I'll be getting it on Tuesday. Now, I'm wanting to know if it were permissable for someone to tell me who the six master villains in the book are. I know Dr. Destroyer is undoubtably one; I take it Dark Serpah, Gravitar, and the others mentioned in Champions Universe are the six master villains? After all, we already have Mechanon's stats in Champions... --and how in the heck is Dr. Destroyer a bigger menace than the dimension-conquering chick? NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks The master villians are: Dr. Destroyer Gravitar Istvatha V'han Menton (no longer working for Dr. D, thus an independent) The Warlord (crud, I'm blanking on #6!) Dark Seraph is powerful enough to be a master villian, but is listed along with the Crowns of Krim in the Team section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks --and how in the heck is Dr. Destroyer a bigger menace than the dimension-conquering chick? NB He is physically much more powerful. And his minions and legions of troops as, if not more, powerful. It's just that she has a lot more minions that Dr. D does, even if the empress has to spread them out over a billion dimensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero's Boot Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks He is physically much more powerful. Out of morbid curiosity, how many points is Destroyer built on? --if he's not at least 600 points, I'll be horribly disappointed NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Takofanes is #6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Out of morbid curiosity, how many points is Destroyer built on? --if he's not at least 600 points, I'll be horribly disappointed NB 2,516 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero's Boot Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks 2' date='516[/quote'] --I think I just soiled myself NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Takofanes is #6. How could they forget Takky? He's probably my favourite. Not to use in a game for heavens sake. But I think he's just an all around fun kind of guy. Who hasn't wanted to take over a dimension or three on a long weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks --I think I just soiled myself NB Try to imagine Dr. Doom with near Thanos-like power levels in his armor. That's Dr. Destroyer. He is the most powerful character yet published, and that includes all of the cosmic entities we have seen published to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks How could they forget Takky? He's probably my favourite. Not to use in a game for heavens sake. But I think he's just an all around fun kind of guy. Who hasn't wanted to take over a dimension or three on a long weekend? I think you're thinking of Tryannon. He's in The Mystic World. Takofanes is the undead sorcerer from the Turakian Age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks I posted this elsewhere but here is my own list of CU villain categories: Imperial Villains: Dr. Destroyer, Istvantha, Skarn, Takofanes, Tyrannon Master Villains: Dark Seraph, Firewing, Gravitar, Menton, Teleios, Viperia, Warlord Minor-Master Villains: Black Paladin, Holocaust, Interface, Mechanon, Stingray, Zorran Crime Lords: Kevin Poe, Franklin Stone, The Purple Gang, Jade Phoenix Imperial villains are those which are planetary threats and require numerous heroes and government agencies to combat. Master villians are those which a powerful/experienced team of heroes can combat. Minor-Master villains are those which average to slightly above-average heroes have a decent chance of defeating. Crime Lords are relatively low-powered villains whose influence is felt due to the followers and/or organizations they bring to bear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Takofanes is #6. D'oh! How could I blank on him? Well, other than the fact I don't use him. He would kill all my PCs & the campaign would end if I ever used him directly. I mean according to his history he left a trail of death across the American South East, killing hundreds, including several heros. And it still took several hours of combat before he even noticed the heros. Of course, Dr. D is like that too. He is just alot more active about his evil plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Try to imagine Dr. Doom with near Thanos-like power levels in his armor. That's Dr. Destroyer. He is the most powerful character yet published' date=' and that includes all of the cosmic entities we have seen published to date.[/quote'] Yep, the days of heros racking up 30 XP, then taking down the big guy are pretty much over. If you have heroes built to Hero 5th's reccomended starting level, then you need a big team with alot of XP, plus about 20 experienced NPC heroes to take him down. After making sure none of his minions are there. Even then there will be character deaths. He is way less of a story arc villian and much more of a summer special "the whole universe teams up to fight him" villian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Imperial villains are those which are planetary threats and require numberous heroes and government agencies to combat. Master villians are those which a powerful/experienced team of heroes can combat. Minor-Master villains are those which average to slightly above-average heroes have a decent chance of defeating. Crime Lords are relatively low-powered villains whose influence is felt due to the followers and/or organizations they bring to bear. I tend to agree with this list. Although I think DEMON's secret master has earned himself a place on the Imperial Villians list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Try to imagine Dr. Doom with near Thanos-like power levels in his armor. That's Dr. Destroyer. He is the most powerful character yet published' date=' and that includes all of the cosmic entities we have seen published to date.[/quote'] Although, I think there's a valid argument that Takofanes is more personally powerful, BUT LET'S NOT START THAT DEBATE AGAIN!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Doctor Destroyer is obscene; he's more a plot device than a character. On top of that, he's boring. He's not interesting like Doctor Doom, who he's clearly patterned after. He has no personality quirks, he's just ludicrously powerful. I think he's by far the least interesting of all the megavillains. Too bad, because Dr. Doom is a cool villain. Destroyer sucks. I can attest that Gravitar is a most formidable opponent, and certainly a world class bad guy (gal, actually). I threw a slightly modified version of Gravitar (Cleverly renamed Graviton) at our team last weekend, and she very nearly beat MidGuard singlehandedly, And this is a hero team which once trounced two Mechanons simultaneously, and even defeated Eurostar last year after a very tough fight. I can see now why a picture from (IIRC) USPDB shows Gravitar whipping up on Eurostar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks For the newbie: ignore claims of Dr Destroyer = Thanos. He's more like "Dr Doom actually built to proper proportions." Yeah, he's hideously powerful, but compared to 350 pointers ( ie, X-Men or Teen Titans ), he should be. He is also, IMHO, *NOT* more powerful than Istvatha V'Han. Personally, yeah, sure. She's not a combat, and she's not meant to be. Thats what the hundred million or so universes of logistics capability, military might, and any other resource imaginable is for. In addition to the six in CKC, I would say the other Master Villains so far published are: -Mechanon -Teleios the Perfect Man -The Supreme Serpent of VIPER -The Edomite, leader of DEMON -Tezcatlipoca -Skarn the Shaper -Tyrannon the Conqueror There is also The Dragon, but I think he transcends even the concept of Master Villain, as do the Kings of Edom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cermak Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks In addition to the six in CKC, I would say the other Master Villains so far published are: -Mechanon -Teleios the Perfect Man -The Supreme Serpent of VIPER -The Edomite, leader of DEMON -Tezcatlipoca -Skarn the Shaper -Tyrannon the Conqueror Vibora Bay adds Therakiel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Vibora Bay adds Therakiel. I was so bummed my copy didn't come today. Now I have a new Master Villain to look forward too as well. Cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Ah, yes, forgot about him. Definitely counts. For no particular reason at all, my classification system: -Megavillains: the baddest of the bad. Their very existence threatens the world. This category includes Dr Destroyer and Takofanes -Master villains ( capital "M" ): a tier down. Not capable of single handedly conquering the world. . . probably. OTOH, major threat to nations. Includes Menton, Gravitar -master villains ( small "m" ): everybody capable of functioning as a central figure of villainy who doesn't rank in the upper categories; major threats/powers within a city level. Includes people ranging from Holocaust on down to city crimelords. Points on which I haven't yet decided: -Dimensional lords and other powerful mystic entities. I'm inclined to put all dimensional conquerors in the Megavillain category, on grounds of logistics if nothing else. However, the cutoff is unclear. -Teams. Do they count as groups, or as the leader?? -Organizations. Same question as above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Ah, yes, forgot about him. Definitely counts. For no particular reason at all, my classification system: -Megavillains: the baddest of the bad. Their very existence threatens the world. This category includes Dr Destroyer and Takofanes -Master villains ( capital "M" ): a tier down. Not capable of single handedly conquering the world. . . probably. OTOH, major threat to nations. Includes Menton, Gravitar -master villains ( small "m" ): everybody capable of functioning as a central figure of villainy who doesn't rank in the upper categories; major threats/powers within a city level. Includes people ranging from Holocaust on down to city crimelords. Points on which I haven't yet decided: -Dimensional lords and other powerful mystic entities. I'm inclined to put all dimensional conquerors in the Megavillain category, on grounds of logistics if nothing else. However, the cutoff is unclear. -Teams. Do they count as groups, or as the leader?? -Organizations. Same question as above. What is the difference between the Ultimates and an impromptu team of "solo villains"? Thus my ranking is: Omega-Villains (world shakers / mega villains) Master Villains master villains Teams & Organizations Solo Villains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Mostly, a matter of teamwork. The Ultimates would have more team cohesion and efficacy than an impromptu team, and thus, would probably be more effective. However, I'm uncertain whether I'd rank them even collectively as a master "villain"', due to a lack of a coherent goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Doctor Destroyer is obscene; he's more a plot device than a character. On top of that, he's boring. He's not interesting like Doctor Doom, who he's clearly patterned after. He has no personality quirks, he's just ludicrously powerful. I think he's by far the least interesting of all the megavillains. Too bad, because Dr. Doom is a cool villain. Destroyer sucks. I concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Mostly, a matter of teamwork. The Ultimates would have more team cohesion and efficacy than an impromptu team, and thus, would probably be more effective. However, I'm uncertain whether I'd rank them even collectively as a master "villain"', due to a lack of a coherent goal. To me master villain ranking is more goal focused than anything else. It represents being in charge and devising plots (which is why Firewing isn't on the list but makes a top ten threat listing). My major crime lords are considered master villains. It is also a matter of personal power as well as goal. The Ultimate's lack a coherent goal. But they also lack the pure power level of someone like Dr Destroyer or Takofanes. DD has 40/40 defenses and 50% damage reduction, he does 150 AP attacks. Takofanes has 25/25 and 75% reduction with 120 to 150 AP attacks. The Ultimates average 23/23 Defenses and 70 AP attacks. Even with five of them they are far easier to defeat because they are easier to effect. My 12d6 EB will put down Binder. It won't even scratch DD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Conquerors, Killers and Crooks Yep. That standard throws some confusion into it, though, mainly with regard to Gravitar, since she isn't especially focused on conquering the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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