Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

[OddHat]

There are large number of Champions villains out there with susceptibilities and vulnerabilities to Holy Weapons, Sacred Ground, and similar effects. So, here are some questions for GMs and players:

 

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

 

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

 

4) If you don’t allow Divine or Holy special effects in your campaigns, and do allow the disadvantages of characters like Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krym, are you giving them free points? After all, a character with a weakness to Kryptonite would have to worry about a foe with Variable SFX creating a Kryptonite ray; shouldn’t Black Paladin have to worry about a foe creating a Holy Water Cannon?

[RDU Neil]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

There are large number of Champions villains out there with susceptibilities and vulnerabilities to Holy Weapons, Sacred Ground, and similar effects. So, here are some questions for GMs and players:

 

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

 

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

 

4) If you don’t allow Divine or Holy special effects in your campaigns, and do allow the disadvantages of characters like Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krym, are you giving them free points? After all, a character with a weakness to Kryptonite would have to worry about a foe with Variable SFX creating a Kryptonite ray; shouldn’t Black Paladin have to worry about a foe creating a Holy Water Cannon?

 

1) Yes, if it fits concept. I would also rule on a situational basis, what was considered Holy Ground or whatever. It would have to be pretty special, IMO. Your average neighborhood church wouldn't cut it. Slight discomfort. St. Paul's Cathedral... now we are talking. An ancient temple of Zorastrianism... damn straight. To me, holy ground would have to be sanctified through years and years of devout worship before it was powerful enough to work like this.

 

2) Yes, if it fits concept. I have a player who really doesn't like to use Judeo-Christian imagery in the same way we use the Greek Pantheon, etc. He just would rather avoid any storylines centered around this. Thus, likely, it will never come up... though it has with other sub-campaigns that he has not played in.

 

3) I can think of one concept that might work. The multi-task demon hunter. Someone with a belt load of charms and potions and the like, who is a believer of some kind (at least believes enough to fight the devils/demons/whathaveyou) so that one slot might be an explosive bottle of oil to burn vampires, and another a vial of holy water vs. the same. Again, concept rules... and I'm sure, as GM, I'd have a time come up where that "blast" is worthless, since the intended target turns out to be something without a limitation. Your average transmuter character could not do this.

 

4) The Kryptonite ray thing still has to "make sense" to the concept of the character. Same as any use of Variable SFX. One, I've never had someone try to abuse this... and two, for such a cheap Advantage, there would clearly be GM fiat on what was reasonable use. GM rules on what is reasonable. (Example: If the player role played out going to get a devout priest, who would join them in battle, and somehow bless an attack... ok, that might work. Basically, if the use of the power makes for interesting, dramatic story telling, I'm much more likely to allow it, than if it is just RULE playing, using one rule to exploit another rule. That is wargaming... and I don't play with people who would even THINK like that, let alone try it.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

 

Yes, of course.

 

2) If so' date=' would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?[/quote']

 

Yes, of course.

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water' date=' or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?[/quote']

 

Possibly: even "variable SFX" has its limits. But a player of any worth would only use such SFX if it were appropriate for the character.

 

4) If you don’t allow Divine or Holy special effects in your campaigns' date=' and do allow the disadvantages of characters like Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krym, are you giving them free points?[/quote']

 

"Free points" is not an issue, since NPCs are not troubled by such concerns. However, if there is a published villain whose only (or major) weakness simply doesn't exist within the game setting, naturally that villain would be revised appropriately.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

There are large number of Champions villains out there with susceptibilities and vulnerabilities to Holy Weapons, Sacred Ground, and similar effects. So, here are some questions for GMs and players:

 

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

 

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

 

4) If you don’t allow Divine or Holy special effects in your campaigns, and do allow the disadvantages of characters like Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krym, are you giving them free points? After all, a character with a weakness to Kryptonite would have to worry about a foe with Variable SFX creating a Kryptonite ray; shouldn’t Black Paladin have to worry about a foe creating a Holy Water Cannon?

 

1) Yes, though I would be leery of having a PC with that disad.

 

2) Yes, if it fit concept, it would be automatic. Would extend to other things, for example, Thor's hammer.

 

3) Depends on their powers. If they have a "holy powers" VPP or Var SFX thing, then yes. But gadgets, non-holy magic powers, etc. would not be able to.

 

4) (n/a)

[Koshka]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

Good questions. So far it hasn't come up, but what I would probably do:

 

1) Allow with justification -- "So why would your gadgeteer take damage from going into a church?" It doesn't fit for many concepts, but if it fits (and the character as a whole fits in the game) I'd allow it.

 

2) If I'm allowing the disad, I've pretty much got to allow something to set it off . I would, however, expect a character with such powers to act like someone channeling divine power. (Yes, I know Catholic belief holds* that the sins of the priest don't affect his ability to perform the sacraments, but I'm not Catholic.)

 

3) Why would someone be able to turn a dial on a VIPER blaster and get divine energy out the business end? If I were using a villain who took extra damage from holy/divine attacks, it would probably be a scenario meant to highlight the party mystic/incarnate angel/some other background that would already have the ability to score the extra damage. If no one on the team can take advantage of that disad, then either they should be able to take the villain without the bonus damage or I shouldn't be using him as a major player.

 

4) Well, yes, if the disad never comes into play you are giving the character free points. On the other hand, if you're using Black Paladin and the Crowns of Krim on a regular basis, you've probably got someone on the team who can hit them with holy attacks, or at least has a contact who's willing to bless their weapons.

 

To use Superman as an example, as of the last time I checked lots of people know kryptonite will slam-dunk him. However, do all of those people have pounds of the stuff tucked in their safety deposit boxes? Do all of those people know the exact wavelength of the radiation it puts out? Knowing his weakness doesn't automatically grant the ability to take advantage of his weakness. Similarly, if the heroes are going after BP, they might know what holy attacks will do to him, but that doesn't mean they should automatically get the ability to take advantage of that weakness.

 

-----

*or did, as of the middle ages pre-Reformation.

[JmOz]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

There are large number of Champions villains out there with susceptibilities and vulnerabilities to Holy Weapons, Sacred Ground, and similar effects. So, here are some questions for GMs and players:

 

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

 

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

 

4) If you don’t allow Divine or Holy special effects in your campaigns, and do allow the disadvantages of characters like Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krym, are you giving them free points? After all, a character with a weakness to Kryptonite would have to worry about a foe with Variable SFX creating a Kryptonite ray; shouldn’t Black Paladin have to worry about a foe creating a Holy Water Cannon?

 

1) Sure

2) Yes

3) This is a little bit more tricky, I dislike VSFX at the +1/2 level, so I hardly ever allow it, when I do allow it I would look at the F/X involved in WHY I allowed it to make a determination

4) See above, but I assure you it would come up (Then again My players base is an old church...)

[MitchellS]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

Yes, though in our games they are broad-based definitions of holy. We just do not follow the Judeo-Christian ideas of holy.

 

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

Yes, I don't see anything wrong with a character having special effects of being holy or unholy. Having gods and demi-gods in the game is fairly four color.

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

No, probably not. Holy water and the like is based on the idea that the item is blessed by a priest. Unless the character has an appropriate skill I don't think it would be wise to allow them to just produce any effect. Religion needs to be religion based. I remember the scene in Fright Night where the vampire says he must have faith for he cross to work against him. That seems logical, and I so I would not just allow any character to start producing holy effects.

 

4) If you don’t allow Divine or Holy special effects in your campaigns, and do allow the disadvantages of characters like Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krym, are you giving them free points? After all, a character with a weakness to Kryptonite would have to worry about a foe with Variable SFX creating a Kryptonite ray; shouldn’t Black Paladin have to worry about a foe creating a Holy Water Cannon?

I don't think Black Paladin needs to worry about a foe creating a "Holy Water Cannon" but I do think he needs to worry about getting tricked into going to holy ground or having Holy Water used against him in some fashion: "Quick Mach! Get to the Church and get as much Holy Water as you can carry. We'll try to hold him here!" Disadvantages need to be used. If they don't come into effect then they should not be granted points, in my opinion.

[KA.]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

There are large number of Champions villains out there with susceptibilities and vulnerabilities to Holy Weapons, Sacred Ground, and similar effects. So, here are some questions for GMs and players:

 

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

 

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

 

4) If you don’t allow Divine or Holy special effects in your campaigns, and do allow the disadvantages of characters like Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krym, are you giving them free points? After all, a character with a weakness to Kryptonite would have to worry about a foe with Variable SFX creating a Kryptonite ray; shouldn’t Black Paladin have to worry about a foe creating a Holy Water Cannon?

 

 

Oddhat,

Good questions!

I do have at least a couple of villains in my campaign with these Vulnerabilities/Susceptibilities.

 

1) Yes, I do.

2) Yes, but, as with anything, it would have to make sense within their concept. So "ArchAngel" could have that SFX, but if "Gun Guy" says "Oh, by the way, my Peacemaker has a Holy Hand Grenade Launcher" I would probably say No.

3) Here is where the problem lies. I don't think I would allow this due to issues of "balance".

Why?

Okay, let's say that I create "Water Weirdo", a villain that is a living column of water.

Variable SFX Guy might try to exploit a weakness by trying different SFX on his attacks.

But what is "Water Weirdo" vulnerable to?

Heat?

Cold?

Dehydration?

Pollution?

There is no way to instantly tell. Variable SFX Guy will have to do a little trial and error.

But, when "Demonicus" shows up, Variable SFX Guy can just set the switch to "Holy" and he is ready to rock. Sure, Demonicus may not actually be vulnerable to Holy attacks, but it is a good bet.

Which means that this is a little too easy to target, as opposed to other SFX.

 

Also, I don't really think it is appropriate to have "Holy" be something you can whip up in a lab.

 

I think that "Holy" should either be based on strong beliefs and/or background, or something that comes from an appropriate source putting a "blessing" on something.

 

4) I almost answered this with my last point, but I decided to hold it for here.

No, I don't let them get the points for free.

Any city should have a wide variety of places that would be considered "Holy" ground.

Churches, Temples, Monasterries, Seminaries, Prayer Meeting, Church Socials, anywhere there is a strong enough concentration of "faith" would work for me.

I think you could even arrange an "ambush" by luring your opponenent into a public place, and then having the "random crowd" show itself to be the congregation of a church along with their Minister. A couple of prayers later, you have "Holy Ground".

And, I would not give characters much trouble with getting something "blessed" by a Priest, Rabbi, etc. as long as the foe they were fighting was something that the person asked for the blessing would be opposed to.

Which should be true in most cases.

 

 

But all this is solely based on my personal beliefs, I don't claim that it is better than anyone else's system.

 

KA.

[Chuckg]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

Well, in the New Sentinels game, we have two characters who are pretty much walking holy damage machines.

 

Horus-Re, the Champion of the Sun, is the son and heir of the ancient Turakian sun god, and is our resident Thor/Black Adam analogue. Given that he's a Superman-class brick as is, when he fights anything with a susceptibility to holy damage, it hurts. (And his sunlight aura is especially hell on vampires.)

 

Starguard, my own character, is just now discovering that she's somehow been imbued with the power of an archangel. She's triggered demonic Susceptibilities to Holy just by walking near them.

 

Together, they pretty much beat down entire demonic hordes.

 

Of course, we both have our vulnerabilities, as well. (Horus's version of Kryptonite are darkness/shadow effects, as befits the sun god. Starguard's weakness is that she's about as aggressive as the average kitten and is a complete novice. So the DM's plots survive mostly intact.)

[Chuckg]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

As for the general issue:

 

* I believe that players should have Holy special effects if they fit conception, and they don't necessarily have to be Christian.

 

* Allowing Holy for a Variable Special Effects power is trickier. As in the aforementioned example, if the special effect is "I have hollow-point loads with garlic chunks, holy water, silver bits, *and* wooden shot -- one for each occasion!", then sure, Variable SFX the vampires /and/ the werewolves /and/ the whichever. OTOH, if your Variable SFX is "Multiple-Frequency Omni-Blaster"... umm, I can understand different wavelengths and hot rays and cold rays and whichever, but going from 'X-ray laser' to 'The Searing Light Of The Divine' just by twiddling a knob? Doesn't fit. Unless you're one of the Sons of Ether or something.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

Yeah, thats about the only circumstance where I'd see Variable SFX working for this. While a mystic could conceivably have spells with a whole bunch of different SFXs, I doubt any single spell could function as either a Holy attack or something else.

[The Watcher]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

Would a superheroic Egon Spengler clone in ghostbusting power armor count?

 

And yes, I eventually intend to write him up one day.

[Vondy]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

1) Yes, with a pair of caveats: a) it has to be in concept, the nature and application of the limitation (sfx) has to be internally consistent, clearly defined, and agreed upon between me (the GM) and the player in advance.

 

2) Yes, insofar as the criteria above are met. There would have to be one additional caveat: the concept has to be consistent/apropos for the campaign in question.

 

3) I would never allow a variable SFX that was that broad - I would allow "variable elements" (i.e. fire, earth, water, wind) or some other variance, but having blaster boy (for instance) suddenly get holy seems "off" to me. The character would have to a) be worthy, and have a theme or SFX that lent itself to such a move. If I were feeling particularly liberal I might let witchcraft - a mystic oriented hero dedicated to good - pull that kind of stunt. A gadgeteer who has a blessed water-tank and a pressure pump might get away with it because he planned in advance and it wasn't really a part of his normal pool. "We're going up against a horde of vampiric strippers at midnight? Boy, I'd better call Father O'Mally!"

 

4) I have a sneaking suspicion that any game wherein those characters exist would be open to the sort of SFX we are dicussing - its implicit in their underlying concept. If they exist in a world without those SFX they need a serious rewrite IMHO. At the very least a different set of weaknesses.----

[RDU Neil]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

As for the general issue:

 

* I believe that players should have Holy special effects if they fit conception, and they don't necessarily have to be Christian.

 

Oh yeah... the "don't have to be Christian" bit applies to me, as well. It's about the power of belief, in my opinion, rather than any one WAY of believing. If the belief in good and righteousness is strong and true... that, in it's own way, is holy, if it has a worship/god/goddess/magic quality to it.

 

To that point, say a PC was hugely popular and powerful, and began to have followers who believed him to be godlike, and worshipped him to some extent (this has happened in my campaign...) then "holy" might begin to be attached to him. It would take a long time, and a great deal of support back to his followers to really cement a powerful SYSTEM of belief... but I could see "holy" becoming part of his powers if that ever happened.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

Yes.

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

Sure, depending on SFX. One of my favorite JLAers in recent years was Zurial - who was an angel. Someone like that could have such.

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

Depending on SFX sure, now the SFX would have to be fairly clear to be able to do that.

And in my FH game my Holy Warriors can buy that CE.

4) If you don’t allow Divine or Holy special effects in your campaigns, and do allow the disadvantages of characters like Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krym, are you giving them free points? After all, a character with a weakness to Kryptonite would have to worry about a foe with Variable SFX creating a Kryptonite ray; shouldn’t Black Paladin have to worry about a foe creating a Holy Water Cannon?

I allow it so the question is moot.

[Arkham]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

There are large number of Champions villains out there with susceptibilities and vulnerabilities to Holy Weapons,

Sacred Ground, and similar effects. So, here are some questions for GMs and players:

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

 

Sure, though I would keep an extra close eye on the character,

considering those vulnerabilities tend to be for Demonic, Unholy,

or Undead types.

 

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

Of course. I've got NPCs both Good and Misunderstood with Holy special

effects.

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change

Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

Only if it is within the character's concept. A demon hunter probably

has a sanctified relic along with her wolfbane, silver bullets, and

Ultra-Violet infused bullets. ;-)

And a 'priest' type crusader could certainly have a Change

Environment defined as Consecrating the Ground.

 

4) N/A

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

As an aside, I am seeing a lot of people add the qualifier, "only if it is within the character's conception." If someone asks "do you permit characters to have water-based powers", there is no need to say "if it's in conception": if the character has water-based powers, that is part of the character's conception.

 

It is saying, "I would only allow a certain character conception if that is the character's conception." It's redundant, like "PIN number".

 

The question about Variable SFX is a slightly different matter, since a character with that power is explicitly capable of altering their SFX. In that case, the response "if it's in conception" makes sense (although it's still pretty much a self-evident answer).

[RDU Neil]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

As an aside' date=' I am seeing a lot of people add the qualifier, "only if it is within the character's conception." If someone asks "do you permit characters to have water-based powers", there is no need to say "if it's in conception": if the character has water-based powers, that [b']is[/b] part of the character's conception.

 

It is saying, "I would only allow a certain character conception if that is the character's conception." It's redundant, like "PIN number".

 

Not necessarily (though it can be redundant at times, I agree.) Example: I posted...

2) Yes, if it fits concept. I have a player who really doesn't like to use Judeo-Christian imagery in the same way we use the Greek Pantheon, etc. He just would rather avoid any storylines centered around this. Thus, likely, it will never come up... though it has with other sub-campaigns that he has not played in.

 

In response the question...

If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

 

I read this as, "If a player wanted to define a certain power as "holy" would I allow it. To this it is important that the concept of the "power" fits the concept of the "character." Example... if someone starts with an overall character concept of "Holy Warrior!" then it makes sense that his powers have the holy SFX... but not everyone is so clear on their character concept. A player may come to me with a "I want to play an energy blaster!" concept, and then on his sheet he has "Soul Fire Blast - SFX: Holy Power" and at that I'll say. "Whoa... that seems out of concept to me."

 

A worse example would be a player playing the classic Starburst character, and then, with EXP, buying a MP slot that is "Holy Beam of Divine Righteousness" so he has a slot that really works against undead. Nothing in the rules to stop this. It's a classic D&D mentality "have item/spell/ability to handle any occasion" but the concept of the power (divine energy) does not match the concept of the character (plasma projector, or whatever.)

 

Concept of a power is different than overall character concept. In this vein I'd say the same thing about "water powers" which is... "A Thermal... mister living fusion reactor, lord of fire... Why do you have Wall of Water on your character sheet?"

 

This is probably an "obvious" argument, but we can't assume as much. Lots of players, the newer they are the more likely, don't always have a clear, mature sense of "concept" and we need to guide them along.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

There are large number of Champions villains out there with susceptibilities and vulnerabilities to Holy Weapons, Sacred Ground, and similar effects. So, here are some questions for GMs and players:

 

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

 

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

 

4) If you don’t allow Divine or Holy special effects in your campaigns, and do allow the disadvantages of characters like Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krym, are you giving them free points? After all, a character with a weakness to Kryptonite would have to worry about a foe with Variable SFX creating a Kryptonite ray; shouldn’t Black Paladin have to worry about a foe creating a Holy Water Cannon?

 

1) Yes, it makes perfect sense for vampires and demons and such

 

2) Yes, but as mentioned above, the character as a whole has to support the holiness concept.

 

3) No. Holiness comes from a deity (in a comic book world, there is usually more than one to choose from). There is no way to create holy water, for instance, through any kind of technical process; it must be blessed by a deity, or at least a powerful agent of one. Having said that, however, if the character was a mystic type already aligned with the forces of good, they might be able to get a holy effect from a Variable Special Effect.

 

4) N/A: see above answers

 

Zeropoint

[Chuckg]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

To that point' date=' say a PC was hugely popular and powerful, and began to have followers who believed him to be godlike, and worshipped him to some extent (this has happened in my campaign...) then "holy" might begin to be attached to him. It would take a long time, and a great deal of support back to his followers to really cement a powerful SYSTEM of belief... but I could see "holy" becoming part of his powers if that ever happened.[/quote']

 

I wouldn't take it quite /that/ far.

 

For the 'Holy' to be invoked, IMO, some actual deity would have to be involved at some point. It just doesn't have to be One Particular Deity.

 

Again, for a New Sentinels example, Horus-Re is holy because *he himself* is a deity -- the inheritor of his father's divine portfolio, the Son of the Sun. Triggering a demon's Susceptibility to Holy Smite is damn easy when you yourself are a god or the divine champion of such.

 

To use a DC example -- Wonder Woman is a divinely powered champion of the Greek pantheon, who was even briefly a deity herself at one point -- the Goddess of Truth. I would most definitely give her a Holy SFX if she started pounding down on a demon or something... the woman is, quite literally, sanctified.

 

Over there is the Spectre. His existence is not generally known, and he has no worshippers. However, he's literally the Wrath of God incarnate -- the Platonic Ideal of the Holy Smite. *Definitely* triggers that Vulnerability. Likewise Zauriel, another angel. Hell, the Linda Danvers Supergirl, earth-bound angel with fiery wings that she was.

 

OTOH, I wouldn't have Superman triggering that same demon's susceptibility or vulnerability -- even though he is godlike, is hugely popular, and actually does have cults that worship him as one. Because he's not really divine -- he's a Kryptonian farm boy.

 

(Of course, when you're Superman, you don't usually *need* to exploit Susceptibilities or Vulnerabilities. *g*)

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

1 Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

Yes.

 

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

Yes. Some have that effect in my game. The mechanics haven't come into play yet, but soon will.

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

That would depend on the special effects of the character in question, and perhaps on the power build in question. I don't think just anyone should be able to create holy effects - or magical, for that matter. To produce those effects, the character in question should have powers of a magical or holy/unholy origin. In my campaign, if you have a super-scifi weapon that lets you fire all sorts of beams, you as a default cannot create magical or holy/unholy effects. Individual GMs may decide this is a big enough limit on the Variable SFX advangage to price it accordingly.

 

4) If you don’t allow Divine or Holy special effects in your campaigns, and do allow the disadvantages of characters like Black Paladin or the Crowns of Krym, are you giving them free points? After all, a character with a weakness to Kryptonite would have to worry about a foe with Variable SFX creating a Kryptonite ray; shouldn’t Black Paladin have to worry about a foe creating a Holy Water Cannon?

 

Characters like that don't belong in campaigns that do not utilize concepts like "holy". They don't make sense. At very least ,the character's disadvantages should be reconfigured.

[MitchellS]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

For the 'Holy' to be invoked' date=' IMO, some actual deity would have to be involved at some point. It just doesn't have to be One Particular Deity.[/quote']

Ultimately deities in the Champions Universe are nothing more than astral plane manifestations of collective conscious thought. The more people who think about/worship the deity the more powerful it becomes. If you follow that CU idea than it is not impossible to deify a character. But I would have an astral manifestation of the character appear, not an empowering of the actual character. Thus if people begin to worship Batman he would not get more powerful but an astral Batman would begin to take form, who I guess could then empower the "real" Batman as a merged avatar to defy the Ban.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

1) Do you allow vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to Divine / Sacred / Holy effects?

 

2) If so, would you allow any PC or NPC to define their powers as Divine or Holy?

 

3) Would you allow characters with the Variable SFX advantage to fire a blast of Holy Water, or to use Change Environment to create Sanctified Ground?

 

Yes, yes, and yes.

[Chuckg]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

> Ultimately deities in the Champions Universe are nothing more than astral

> plane manifestations of collective conscious thought.

 

To become such a significant part of humanity's collective unconscious that you begin to function as an independent, sentient entity -- well, let's just say that I can't imagine it *NOT* taking more than one mortal lifetime.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Holy Susceptibilities: God and Champions

 

To become such a significant part of humanity's collective unconscious that you begin to function as an independent' date=' sentient entity -- well, let's just say that I can't imagine it *NOT* taking more than one mortal lifetime.[/quote']

 

Kind of like spiritual smog.