nexus Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hero is pretty complete and there's not much you can't do or at least fake nicely, but if you could add one more: 1. Characteristic 2 Skill 3. Power 4 Advantage What would it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanith Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... 5. Limitation "If we study the lives of great men and women carefully and unemotionally we find that, invariably, greatness was developed, tested and revealed through the darker periods of their lives. One of the largest tributaries of the river of greatness is always the stream of adversity." - Cavett Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... 5. Limitation I delibarately left out Talents and Limitation since Talents are essentially highly limited Powers and Limitations has the catchall "Limited Power". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraterMaker Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... 1: The Characteristic would be Hero points (or Villain points) which would work like Fate points in other games - let you reroll one roll.. DOn't know if they would only be bought with experience or not, but I like the idea.. 2: I can't think of a skill.. Hero's pretty much got em covered.. 3: The power would be Steal - Taking a power from someone else (that you don't have) and adding it to your own arsenal. Currently you have to get funky with a vpp, and I think that's just clunky. Just make it 20points per dice and I'll be content.. 4: I can't think of an advantage, either.. Yay Hero! -Cratermaker P.S. for a limitation, I'd like to see Fade, for powers that drain away after use.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanith Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... I'm sorry I should have used a more descriptive word there; how about Flaw. As in character flaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jim Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... 2. for skills i'd like to see everyman skills done away with and have defaults for skills instead (ala GURPS). or at least have something like this as a standard option for HERO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... 1: The Characteristic would be Hero points (or Villain points) which would work like Fate points in other games - let you reroll one roll.. DOn't know if they would only be bought with experience or not, but I like the idea.. 2: I can't think of a skill.. Hero's pretty much got em covered.. 3: The power would be Steal - Taking a power from someone else (that you don't have) and adding it to your own arsenal. Currently you have to get funky with a vpp, and I think that's just clunky. Just make it 20points per dice and I'll be content.. 4: I can't think of an advantage, either.. Yay Hero! -Cratermaker P.S. for a limitation, I'd like to see Fade, for powers that drain away after use.. I like Steal. That is a pretty good idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... Well the thing is most of what I would change is in clasifications of abilities: MD would become a characteristic, Luck would default to a more mechanicaly sound method (This is how I do the hero points system above, I use the option where you count body and give that many rerolls) I do however like the "steal" power idea. Also an advantage on Multiform to give you infinite forms based on how big of an advantage (+1/2 for limited group like any animals, +1 for a broader definition) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Taylor Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... 3: The power would be Steal - Taking a power from someone else (that you don't have) and adding it to your own arsenal. Currently you have to get funky with a vpp' date=' and I think that's just clunky. Just make it 20points per dice and I'll be content..[/quote'] I think "Steal" would be more elegantly handled as an Advantage for Transfer (maybe +1/2, though I'm open to debate on the value) rather than a Power in itself, because it would probably behave identically to Transfer except that the user could acquire a power he doesn't already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Taylor Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... In answer to the original question I can't think of anything I'd add off the top of my head. There was something that occured to me recently during my weekly Fantasy HERO game but I can't remember what it was now. I can tell it's going to bug me now until I remember it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I'd like an Adder, either for Clairsentience or Desolidification, that turns it into a standard "Astral Body" power. Because it's crazy having suggestion after suggestion for a power that is basic to a couple genres (Fantasy Hero, supermage Champions), and which no one can agree on. So just make an Adder that defines what Astral Body does, and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Taylor Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... I'd like an Adder, either for Clairsentience or Desolidification, that turns it into a standard "Astral Body" power. Because it's crazy having suggestion after suggestion for a power that is basic to a couple genres (Fantasy Hero, supermage Champions), and which no one can agree on. So just make an Adder that defines what Astral Body does, and be done with it. I'll be the first to admit that I might be misunderstanding what you're suggesting, but I think the Adder Mobile Perception Point for Clairsentience (Star HERO, page 53) covers this ground, doesn't it? IIRC it is included in 5ER, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... I think "Steal" would be more elegantly handled as an Advantage for Transfer (maybe +1/2' date=' though I'm open to debate on the value) rather than a Power in itself, because it would probably behave identically to Transfer except that the user could acquire a power he doesn't already have.[/quote'] Yoe mean it doesn't already act like this? You guys are push overs! Hawksmoor -Seriously Steal is a great power idea! Go Tell Steve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Taylor Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... Yoe mean it doesn't already act like this? You guys are push overs! Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... Adder (to Force Wall and Entangle) or separate power - Suffocate. Blocks air flow so targets who need to breathe suffer the effects of being unable to. Running a close second, Disorient - a power (or advantage) which only Stuns the target (no lasting damage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... As we're talking additions and not rules changes, I'd like to see the Object Creation rules from DH made official. Some kind of official Time Alteration power less clunky than the mix of effects we have to use now would be nice, and a Super Speed power as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I'll be the first to admit that I might be misunderstanding what you're suggesting' date=' but I think the Adder [i']Mobile Perception Point[/i] for Clairsentience (Star HERO, page 53) covers this ground, doesn't it? IIRC it is included in 5ER, too. It's one of the reasons I think of Clairsentience to model Astral Form. But it'd just be neater to bundle all the Astral Form assumptions into one Adder. Assumptions like: Mobile perception point Mobile perception point is the source of powers usable in Astral Form (e.g., with specific Adder or Mental Powers) Mobile perception point may be targeted by powers to affect Astral Form (e.g., powers with Advantages to affect Astral Forms, or Mental Powers) Allows for some form of standardized movement while in Astral Form Applies set of environmental rules that Astral Form is affected by Et cetera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Taylor Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... It's one of the reasons I think of Clairsentience to model Astral Form. But it'd just be neater to bundle all the Astral Form assumptions into one Adder. Assumptions like: Mobile perception point Mobile perception point is the source of powers usable in Astral Form (e.g., with specific Adder or Mental Powers) Mobile perception point may be targeted by powers to affect Astral Form (e.g., powers with Advantages to affect Astral Forms, or Mental Powers) Allows for some form of standardized movement while in Astral Form Applies set of environmental rules that Astral Form is affected by Et cetera I think for that type of Astral Form power Desolidification would be more appropriate, because it addresses most of these issues already. Some kind of Limitation is needed to represent the fact that a vulnerable physical body is left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... Hmm... There isn't much that I would ask for as there's very little that HERO 5 doesn't cover well. As far as Characteristics go, for certain horror games some type of Sanity stat might be appropriate. I believe that the Genre-By-Genre document suggests one, though. Oh, and add some game-mechanic use for Comeliness. I can't really think of a Skill that can't be covered adequately within the current system. For a Power, though, I'd love to see "Melee Reflection," the hand-to-hand counterpart to Missile Deflection/Reflection, without having to do system gymnastics as is necessary now. In my own campaign I'm using a custom Advantage on Transfer, "Added Points Up To Starting Values Don't Fade" (+1/2). It makes Transfer work like it did under 4E, and results in "stealing power to recharge" constructs that are much cleaner than linking Transfer with Healing. Slightly beyond the thread parameters, but I'd love to update and make official the old "Self-Inflicted Damage Rule" that causes normal people to hurt themselves if they punch etc. a hard, unyielding surface. I'd also like to make Quirks (as in GURPS) part of the official ruleset. I know a lot of HERO GMs allow them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... 1: The Characteristic would be Hero points (or Villain points) which would work like Fate points in other games - let you reroll one roll.. DOn't know if they would only be bought with experience or not' date=' but I like the idea..[/quote'] There are a couple of good HERO pulp gaming websites that take both approaches. Jesse Zwerling's "Thrilling True Tales" campaign lets characters acquire Action Points! in addition to Experience, while Donald Doepke's modified Inspiration Points from White Wolf's Adventure game are gained through Experience. BTW my personal preference is to use most of the structure of the Action Point! system, but add the more detailed Dramatic Editing breakdown for DD's Inspiration Points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... Running a close second' date=' Disorient - a power (or advantage) which only Stuns the target (no lasting damage).[/quote'] You can do that with an EB, STUN Only, or possibly an EB, NND. Since you only want STUN to go in, it's no big deal. I also really like Steal, though I think it should be an Adder or Advantage for Transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiMan Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... I'd like to add Regeneration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... You can do that with an EB' date=' STUN Only, or possibly an EB, NND. Since you only want STUN to go in, it's no big deal.[/quote'] Actually, this misses the point. This is discussed in another thread, but the concept is a power which does not actually inflict STUN for any purpose other than Stunning the target. As an "official" power, I'd like to see a mechanic which allows for multiple phases Stunned. A Stun only EB (NND or otherwise) still inflicts STUN which can ultimately KO the target. A "disorientation" effect might leave the target stunned for 3 segments, but would not make him any easier for someone else to KO, nor could it inflict actual lasting STUN damage. The power should provide options for each of full stun (all non-persistent powers shut down; DCV 0), partial STUN (DCV 0; powers remain in effect as long as END is paid) and just loss of phases (DCV and powers unaffected, but no actions can be taken). Maybe some variation of Flash (target disoriented - treat as Stunned for 1 segment per BOD rolled) would work. Loss of phases might be 15 points per d6 (twice as powerful as Flash and hard to defend against - no enhanced senses to get around it). Maybe add 10 points per die to achieve the "0 DCV effect" (much like an "NND entangle" which fades automatically). Say another 10 points per die to alos force non-persistent powers to shut down. Something would have to defend, maybe the default being Power Defense or an NND effect. I'm reasonably OK with the first effect at 15 per d6. A 60 point attack that, on average, costs the target 4 segments, wouldn't seem hugely overpowered, especially if it must have a "reasonably common" defense. The other two I'm not so sure of - shutting down non-persistent powers is a big effect, and DCV 0 is also substantial. If Power Defense is the default defense, the end result might just be all supers buying 5 power Def so the attack never works, which is a self-defeating approach. Another approach might be to take the Flash/Dispel approach and establish "Stunning Attack" as 3 points per d6, stun rolled applies to defenses but is applied only to STUN the target. Now a 60 AP attack is 20d6, 70 on average, virtually guaranteed to stun most targets. I don't like this near-automatic success. hmmm...maybe we could borrow the KAA mechanic. For 10 points per die, you get a KA-like roll for STUN only, only to STUN the target. 60 points is 6d6, average 21 rolled. STUN will be 21,21,42,63,84,105 depending on the multiple. A shot at stunning virtually anyone, but also a good chance of having no effect whatsoever. Maybe for 15 points per die, every 1/2 again of the target's CON, he's Stunned for 1 more segment. If I had a great idea for the mechanic, I guess I wouldn't see it as a "top pick" for adding to the system, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... In my own campaign I'm using a custom Advantage on Transfer' date=' "Added Points Up To Starting Values Don't Fade" (+1/2). It makes Transfer work like it did under 4E, and results in "stealing power to recharge" constructs that are much cleaner than linking Transfer with Healing.[/quote'] I'd like to see such an advantage apply to Aid as well. It should bge possible to eliminate Healing entirely by judicisous advantages and limitations on Aid. "Aid, Heals to Starting (+3/4), Costs 1/2 END (-1/4), Does not raise beyond starting Max (-1/2) = 10 point per die healing that costs about 1 END per d6. And add further advantages for moving the healing limit up the time chart, ending at +1 (the implicit advantage in Regeneration) for no time limit/no upper limit. Hmmm...while we're on Adjustment Powers, +1 for "no upper limit" would be a nice STOP SIGN addition. I'd also break "affects multiple stats/powers" and "choose which stat/power is affected" so Drain any one stat is +1/4, Drain STR and DEX is +1/4 and Drain any two stats is +1/2. Hmmm...and we should have advantages that affect only the "drain" or on;ly the "aid" costed differently for Transfer (or make Transfer officially a Link of Aid and Drain, and apply advantages separately to each - that would be considerably more complex, though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silbeg Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Re: If you could add one more... Adder (to Force Wall and Entangle) or separate power - Suffocate. Blocks air flow so targets who need to breathe suffer the effects of being unable to. This can be covered in the current powers.... link an NND to the Force Wall (or Entangle), with the defense being SCB... For the FW, it would need an AE to be the same as the Force Wall's ability to enclose... Of course, you probably want to add Continuous, and even possible Uncontrolled (the power would end if the FW/Entangle is broken). Running a close second' date=' Disorient - a power (or advantage) which only Stuns the target (no lasting damage).[/quote'] Probably a broken power, if it were to exist. See the discussion on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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