My take on the Light Sabre

[MisterVimes]

... or Force Weapon of your choice

 

Cost	Equipment	END
45	Force Weapon: (Total: 125 Active Cost, 45 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 +1 (plus STR) (vs. ED), +1 STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), No Normal Defense (Force Fields and Force Walls; +1), Does BODY (+1) (75 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum (10; -1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Required Hands (One-And-A-Half-Handed; -1/4) (Real Cost: 25) plus Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack; Missile Reflection, Reflect At Any Target) (50 Active Points); OAF (-1), Required Hands (One-And-A-Half-Handed; -1/4), Limited Power (Real Weapon; -1/4) (Real Cost: 20) [Notes: 1d6+1 HKA (+STR) NND: Force fields/Walls; Missile Deflect on OCV vs. OCV roll; 37,500 CR]

[keithcurtis]

I'd like to comment, but the white text on light grey background is unreadable.

 

Keith "set in his ways" Curtis

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by keithcurtis

I'd like to comment, but the white text on light grey background is unreadable.

 

Keith "set in his ways" Curtis

 

Um... I see white on DARK gray...

[Guest C_Zeree]

Philisohical debate: If the blade is made from light/force/whatever, and it cuts through everything like butter, should a character really be able to do more damage based on how strong they are?

 

I have argued with my friend over the fact. I would set the HKA at a level and give the mod STR does not add to damage.

 

I like the thought of extra damage based on DEX. Different, but a more dexterous character could really carve up their opponent. But OCV does sort of take that into account.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by C_Zeree

Philisohical debate: If the blade is made from light/force/whatever, and it cuts through everything like butter, should a character really be able to do more damage based on how strong they are?

 

I have argued with my friend over the fact. I would set the HKA at a level and give the mod STR does not add to damage.

 

I like the thought of extra damage based on DEX. Different, but a more dexterous character could really carve up their opponent. But OCV does sort of take that into account.

 

Good point. You could make it a 2 - 3d6 RKA (with no range) instead

[Guest Champsguy]

Originally posted by C_Zeree

Philisohical debate: If the blade is made from light/force/whatever, and it cuts through everything like butter, should a character really be able to do more damage based on how strong they are?

 

I have argued with my friend over the fact. I would set the HKA at a level and give the mod STR does not add to damage.

 

Yeah, except the actors really seemed to put a lot of muscle into it whenever they swung those things. Otherwise, why hold them with two hands?

[Old Man]

I'm fairly certain that STR does matter for Lightsabers. Sure they can cut through anything but that doesn't mean that it does so efortlessly. Qui Gon cutting through blast door as example. It looked like he was puttin some mucle into the effort.

 

Missile Deflection/Reflection is a funtion of the user not the weapon. It might require a Lightsaber to block a blaster shot but the Jedi will not suddenly forget how to block arrows if he's holding a normal sword.

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by MisterVimes

Um... I see white on DARK gray...

 

Ok...ok...

White on slightly less light gray...

about a 32% gray AAMOF. Not particularly dark.

 

Keith "Still can't read it unless I select the text" Curtis

 

PS. This is a completely spurious and facetious gripe for the humor-impaired. Go back to chopping off people's arms in bar fights.

[Aroooo]

Originally posted by C_Zeree

Philisohical debate: If the blade is made from light/force/whatever, and it cuts through everything like butter, should a character really be able to do more damage based on how strong they are?

 

I have argued with my friend over the fact. I would set the HKA at a level and give the mod STR does not add to damage.

 

I like the thought of extra damage based on DEX. Different, but a more dexterous character could really carve up their opponent. But OCV does sort of take that into account.

 

WEG's Star Wars had Light Saber Combat as a Force power. Anyone could wield the weapon, and do its standard damage. But someone trained in the Force could add (part of) their Force skill dice to the weapon's damage.

 

Often wondered how you'd do that in Hero. Maybe weapon as described (with the STR does not add damage), PLUS extra damage classes, up to your ECV level (to represent Force ability) (-1 limitation).

 

Aroooo

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Aroooo

WEG's Star Wars had Light Saber Combat as a Force power. Anyone could wield the weapon, and do its standard damage. But someone trained in the Force could add (part of) their Force skill dice to the weapon's damage.

 

Often wondered how you'd do that in Hero. Maybe weapon as described (with the STR does not add damage), PLUS extra damage classes, up to your ECV level (to represent Force ability) (-1 limitation).

 

Aroooo

 

Naw, again it's the user not the weapon. You said so yourself. It's just CSLs used to increase damage. Maybe 'Only With Lightsaber'

[Aroooo]

Originally posted by Shadowpup

Naw, again it's the user not the weapon. You said so yourself. It's just CSLs used to increase damage. Maybe 'Only With Lightsaber'

 

Yeah, you're right. Make it part of the character's Force "package."

 

I've been working on ships too much lately. Everything's starting to look like equipment

 

Aroooo

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by keithcurtis

Ok...ok...

White on slightly less light gray...

about a 32% gray AAMOF. Not particularly dark.

 

Keith "Still can't read it unless I select the text" Curtis

 

PS. This is a completely spurious and facetious gripe for the humor-impaired. Go back to chopping off people's arms in bar fights.

 

You just watch yourself. We're wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve systems.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Shadowpup

Missile Deflection/Reflection is a funtion of the user not the weapon. It might require a Lightsaber to block a blaster shot but the Jedi will not suddenly forget how to block arrows if he's holding a normal sword.

 

Yeah, good point. I was trying this more for a heroic level star hero game.... perhaps 'requires skill roll' to simulate needing to be a master to use it (I know that the ocv/ocv attack roll is needed as well, obviously)

[Old Man]

Missile Deflection isn't all that expensive. Getting to the "Can Deflect Anything" level is expensive. However, the last 5 points should have "Only With Lightsaber".

 

The thing is that while using a Lightsaber the Adder of Missile Reflection should only work with energy based attacks. I would rule that bullets arrows and thrown things just get vaporized by the Lightsaber so cannot be reflected. Adding the "Not vs Heavy Missiles" would be good too. Jedi seem to dodge cannon fire (or die from it) rather than block it with their Lightsabers.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Shadowpup

Missile Deflection isn't all that expensive. Getting to the "Can Deflect Anything" level is expensive. However, the last 5 points should have "Only With Lightsaber".

 

The thing is that while using a Lightsaber the Adder of Missile Reflection should only work with energy based attacks. I would rule that bullets arrows and thrown things just get vaporized by the Lightsaber so cannot be reflected. Adding the "Not vs Heavy Missiles" would be good too. Jedi seem to dodge cannon fire (or die from it) rather than block it with their Lightsabers.

 

All excelent points... I'll look at modifying the construct

[Gary]

How would you simulate that it really can't be Blocked by shields or conventional weapons? Penalty skill levels to opponents OCV only to cancel out opponent's shield or block bonuses not vs other light sabers?

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Honestly, the Star Hero version really does work well. I hate having to buy the damn thing for a superheroic campaign, though; it eats up a whole sh!tload of points.

 

For the Force, I built it using a VPP: 0-Phase Action (+1), Slightly Limited Class (-1/4). All powers have at least one Requires Skill Roll (Control, Sense, Alter) or a combination of them.

 

For the weapon itself, however, the Star Hero writeup I prefer is the one sans the Force Screen. Re-sketched here:

 

RKA 3d6, NND (ED Force Field/Force Wall or other energy blade, +1), Does BODY (+1), Reduced Endurance (0 END, +1/2) (157 Active Points); OAF (-1), No Range (-1/2) (total cost: 63 Points) plus RKA 2d6, NND (ED Force Field/Force Wall or other energy blade, +1), Does BODY (+1), Continuous (+1), Damage Shield (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END, +1/2) (150 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (-1/4, to first RKA), Only Affects Material Objects Which Strike Blade (-1/2) (total cost: 54 points).

 

I think one could also apply Beam (-1/4) and No Knockback (-1/4) to both of these. Stylistically, I also would put the Missile Deflection with this. Agreed, a Jedi can probably deflect arrows, bullets, or, going by Vader's example, blaster bolts only with his hand; however, I'd let the Jedi to 'purchase' that through the VPP if he didn't have the lightsaber handy. Otherwise, the Jedi, if he has a lightsaber in hand, should pretty much always be able to deflect bolts and such ...

[Aroooo]

slightly off topic

 

I probably missed this in another thread, and its late, so I'm going to ask a potentially dumb question anyway...

 

Why buy it as an RKA with no range, etc., and not just a HKA?

 

Aroooo

[JmOz]

I have a Champions character with a Lightsaber type weapon, this is how I did it:

 

1d6+1 HKA, AVLD:ForceFields (+3/4), Does Body (+1), 0 End (+1/2), AP (+1/2)

[Rick]

Well cinematicly LightSabers are definitly NND/Does Body. In a game though I'd go ap/pen, nothing in starwars is Hardened apparently. I would just consider all Enery shielding hardened.

[Old Man]

Re: slightly off topic

 

Originally posted by Aroooo

I probably missed this in another thread, and its late, so I'm going to ask a potentially dumb question anyway...

 

Why buy it as an RKA with no range, etc., and not just a HKA?

 

Aroooo

 

Because they wanted to simulate that STR has little to do with how much damage a Lightsaber does. I'd say they were correct in this. Yoda doesn't look strong at all but he can kick butt with a Lightsaber.

[Aroooo]

Re: Re: slightly off topic

 

Originally posted by Shadowpup

Because they wanted to simulate that STR has little to do with how much damage a Lightsaber does. I'd say they were correct in this. Yoda doesn't look strong at all but he can kick butt with a Lightsaber.

 

Now that you mention it, I do remember reading that point in the other thread.

 

I hope the Easter candy goes away soon, I've got to get off this sugar high

 

Aroooo

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Originally posted by Rick

Well cinematicly LightSabers are definitly NND/Does Body. In a game though I'd go ap/pen, nothing in starwars is Hardened apparently. I would just consider all Enery shielding hardened.

 

Well, that's how I started out doing mine, but when I picked up the Star Hero book and saw their version, I nodded and said, 'Yeah, that's it.' And I disagree; a lot in Star Wars can be considered Hardened, particularly a lot of the 'scale' weapons. A lightsaber, on the other hand, can go through virtually anything without really working up a sweat, Qui-Gonn's need to 'work' through the blast doors in 'Phantom Menace' notwithstanding. (For that, well, I'd just judge that blast doors, besides high-DEF and hardened, also have high BODY; gotta work through the BODY in order to get them down. He was, after all, cutting through the regular doors rather fast, and then had to work through both at once.)

 

If you 'limit' the lightsaber to AP/Penetrating (which I did -- AP + 3xPenentrating) -- it means that you'll PROBABLY always do one or two points of BODY damage. That, unfortunately, doesn't really reflect the wonderful image of the lightsaber just going *VWOOSH!* through practically anything you care to name.

 

When it comes to the Missile Deflection capabilities, however, I must admit that lightsabers are 'somewhat limited'. They shouldn't be able to deflect non-cohesive attacks (like spit or webs or that sort of thing), nor should they be permitted to reflect any bulky items. Cut through/deflect, sure, but not REflect. And anything that actually DOES get De-/Reflected should (of course) first have that Xd6 damage done to it, to see if it survives. Bullets shouldn't; blaster bolts (i.e. energy) should. The 'damage shield' is, after all, to 'physical objects touching the blade'.

 

Side note on the lightsaber in a superheroic genre instead of a heroic Star Hero genre: IMO, the NND (+1) should get 'upgraded' to a Limited AVLD. Instead of a +1½ bonus, make it instead a +1¼ bonus, with the AVLD as such: NND vs. ED Force Walls and other Lightsabers, AVLD vs. ED Force Fields. In the superheroic genre there are 'far too many' individuals running around with ED force fields for the 'Jedi Knight' to really be capable of plying his trade; in short, the 'defense' goes from 'three uncommon' to 'two uncommon and one common'. Adding a +1/4 bonus to the NND (or taking off 1/4 from the AVLD) to permit the weapon to be applied like a regular weapon against the FF would make it a bit more balanced. At least IMO.

[Rick]

Sure you can concider things in Star Wars Hardened...but why. Besides the Lightsaber what in Starwars cuts through everything? There is nothing else that is obviously "armor piercing" or obviously "Hardened". Big guns are AE: explosions or AE: hexes W/lot's of dice, blast doors are 20 pts of def: why bog down write ups W/AP and hardened when it's not neccissary.

 

Yeah Lightsabers are definitly NND Killing attacks in the movies. I think however that in game I'll blaze through fewer PC's W/a 3-4d6 ap penetrating KA as opposed to a 3-4d6 NND Killing attack.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Well, that assumes that you don't have Jedi in your group. It's part of the genre that Jedi go for Sith, and Sith go for Jedi, and if there aren't any of the others they'll go for everyone all at once, using their wacky Force powers to do fun things like TK stuff at you and deflect or reflect your blaster bolts.

 

It really all depends on how you're going to be playing with your lightsabers, doesn't it? If you don't have any weapons that pierce armor (which, if you're playing the 'space opera' aspect of Star Wars, you don't really need), then you have no need for Hardened materials. If, on the other hand, you have weapons that ARE AP or Penetrating (like you'll have in a 'scavenger/privateer' campaign or a down 'n' dirty SpecOps campaign), then some of the stuff is bound to be resistant to those benefits -- and thus the lightsaber is best considered an NND or Limited AVLD.

 

IMO, I'd always go with the latter; it hits home that a 'saber is Not A Toy. A training lightsaber, OTOH, should be the same thing -- but without the 'Does Body (+1)' advantage, to be added on later.