Achilles' Heels

[CrosshairCollie]

Just wondering, as I so often do, if anybody's ever made a character with an Achilles Heel, in the metaphorical sense; a powerful character who has one event or weakness that results in him being completely and utterly screwed; the classic comic-book example being Superman and Kryptonite (of course). Was it entertaining, or did it just wind up getting annoying after a while?

[Theron]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

I had a PC whose powers derived simply from the fact that he believed he was superhuman and could channel his will in a variety of very effective ways. However, surprise attacks went through him like a hot knife through butter.

 

It was interesting playing out his first stay in the ICU after he got seriously nailed. He had a long road back to full power, and we used his fear of getting hurt like that again as sort of a radiation accident that turned a previously pretty versatile power set into a more conventional brick arrangement. It's not something I'd really planned for the character, but it seemed completely appropriate when we did it.

[Agent 13]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

A character I just submitted to a PBeM game was a statue animated by an Atlantean crystal placed in its forehead. Remove the crystal, and he reverts to lifeless stone. (He wasn't chosen for the game, sadly.)

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

I had a PC whose powers derived simply from the fact that he believed he was superhuman and could channel his will in a variety of very effective ways. However, surprise attacks went through him like a hot knife through butter.

 

It was interesting playing out his first stay in the ICU after he got seriously nailed. He had a long road back to full power, and we used his fear of getting hurt like that again as sort of a radiation accident that turned a previously pretty versatile power set into a more conventional brick arrangement. It's not something I'd really planned for the character, but it seemed completely appropriate when we did it.

 

Heh. I've often toyed around with the reverse power set - if he sees it coming, it CAN hurt him.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

Heh. I've often toyed around with the reverse power set - if he sees it coming' date=' it CAN hurt him. [/quote']

 

Ignorance is Bliss, and Bliss is 75 percent Resistant Physical and Energy Damage Reduction.

[Agent 13]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

Ignorance is Bliss' date=' and Bliss is 75 percent Resistant Physical and Energy Damage Reduction. [/quote'] The Funny Weather We're Having powerset. Special effect: when you're hit, you have to hold out your hand and ask "Does anybody else feel any rain?"

[Kristopher]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

The Funny Weather We're Having powerset. Special effect: when you're hit, you have to hold out your hand and ask "Does anybody else feel any rain?"

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I had to walk away from the computer after reading that, I was laughing so hard. Hillarious.

[Supreme]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

I do Achilles Heels all the time. I think it's the weaknesses that make super-heroes more interesting than their powers. The last significant AH (we call them "shut-off conditions") was for the Golden Age version of my character Champion (there's a Silver Age version too). The GA Champion got his powers from Athena, who's never gotten along well with her uncle Poseidon. Thus, if Champion is ever surrounded by seawater he loses all of his powers. The SA Champion gets his powers from Cosmic radiation so if he's ever surrounded by lead, same deal. For me it's fun, but the GMs have a heck of a time maneuvering my Champions into their shut-off conditions (I only ever take a -1/4 for the limitation).

[Kristopher]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

As I mentioned in another thread recently, I prefer playing characters who are able get down to the business of dealing with the matter at hand, and don't have to worry about this sort of thing.

[Jhamin]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

I once had player who used a Werewolf-Agile Brick. He took x2 stun & 1.5 body from silver attacks and none of his otherwise impressive defenses would stop silver attacks.

 

I, as the DM, found it to be overly limiting. Sure, I could KO him whenever I wanted by handing out expensive candlesticks to the bad guys but there was no drama in it. I had to either take this character out of the fight in one hit, or ignore his vulnerability. There wasn't much of a middle ground.

 

The experience has soured me on any character that completely shuts down in a given circumstance because it is just so hard to tell a good story with protagonists that are always either "on" or "off" depending on if the bad guys get to hit a soft spot or not.

[OddHat]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

Personally, I don't run characters with AH as such, but I do require that there be some reasonable way of stopping any PC in my games. I've had a few players get sulky when I explained that Captain Hides In His Extradimensional Bunker While Fighting With Drones was not going to work out.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

Not a big fan of Achilles Heels. If I design a character, he'll only have a vulnerability if it specifically makes sense from his power's special effect.

[Rapier]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

I should crosspost him. He is also my biggest damage sponge. He doesn't take any damage until you hit him with Mental Attacks. Then he drops like a rock.

 

Heels are best for the big guns. Dr D, Mechanon, Firewing etc. There is very little more distressing for a group than pounding away at a villain for a couple of turns without seeming to do any damage. A good heel also allows a group thats a little light take out a MUCH more powerful foe. Talk about warm and fuzzy feelings of accomplishment!

[phydaux]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

When I FIRST started playing Champs, WAY back in the day, I made characters like that. After all, it's in genera.

 

But I got left with a bad taste in my mouth. Seems all my fire-vulnerable PCs always faced agents with fire based attacks.

 

Always. I'm talking EVERY game.

 

And when I fielded a new character that was vulnerable to water-based attacks, all the super agents in EVERY team traded in their flamethrowers for water cannons. All of them. FOR NO GOOD REASON.

 

This same GM liked to throw villains at us with disads like Vulnerable to Bullets ("Hey, anybody with a NORMAL gun can stop this 80 STR, 40 PD/40ED Brick...") and Suceptible to Coffee ("It causes him Body damage, and it's VERY common...").

 

Ever since, I stick to psycological disads.

[Netzilla]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

In a previous campaign from a couple years ago, I played Freon. He was an ice-based super who's powers all cost x2 END when the temp got above 80F. Every 10F above that was an additional multiplier on his END. Also, all his defenses (and those of his powers; like Entangle) were halved vs. Heat/Flame based attacks.

 

In our current campaign, one of my Characters, Neutron, is a hero merged with a low-mass (relatively) point singularity (essentially an artificially created mini black hole). Unfortunately for him, powerful electromagnetic or gravitational fields will interact badly with the singularity. So, he looses most of his powers (I'd estimate about a 75% power reduction) and takes Susceptability damage from both.

 

So, neither character is made completely helpless by their Achilles' Heels, but they are far less effective.

 

One of our other players is running a radiation-based hero. If his radioative energy is drained away, he's got an Accidental Change back to his normal human form that might get triggered.

 

As for those GMs who take advantage of (or, IMO abuse) weaknesses like these by having them show up every (or most) games need a serious talking-to by their players. There is a reason why several of these are only worth -1/4 or -1/2. It's because they shouldn't show up that often. I'd suspect that the GMs in question were of the 'GM vs. Players' school of GMing. Bleck.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

The experience has soured me on any character that completely shuts down in a given circumstance because it is just so hard to tell a good story with protagonists that are always either "on" or "off" depending on if the bad guys get to hit a soft spot or not.

Are you saying DC comics are crap?

[Houston GM]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

Just wondering, as I so often do, if anybody's ever made a character with an Achilles Heel, in the metaphorical sense; a powerful character who has one event or weakness that results in him being completely and utterly screwed

I don't make any who are all or nothing, like you've described.

 

I do make most who have limiting weaknesses. I actually have a house rule that "Nobody is immune to everything."

 

A villain might have amazing PD, but modest ED. Or he might have great PD/ED, but minimal resistant defenses. Or they might have phenomenal DCV, but low enough defenses to find AEs to be a real threat.

 

One of my players has phenomenal resistant defenses, but no mental defense. Another one has terrific rPD, good mental def, but modest ED. Another player loses a good bit of DEX & SPD in electro-magnetic fields.

 

If someone has a vulnerability (as a number of my villains do), there's a logical reason for that weakness.

 

 

Seems all my fire-vulnerable PCs always faced agents with fire based attacks.

 

Always. I'm talking EVERY game.

 

And when I fielded a new character that was vulnerable to water-based attacks, all the super agents in EVERY team traded in their flamethrowers for water cannons. All of them. FOR NO GOOD REASON.

That's just abusive GMing. Here's how I handle vulnerabilities in villains:

 

Example #1

Jungle Jim grew up in the Amazon. He's lived his entire life in a "hot" climate, and thinks room temperature is "cold". He has a x1.5 vulnerability to cold attacks.

 

Example #2

Blaze is a fire-based energy projecter. He also has a x1.5 vulnerability to cold, but he gets 5 more points for this disadvantage than Jungle Jim does. Everyone with cold attacks will shoot Blaze first, so fire attacks will naturally be "more common" for Blaze than they will be for Jungle Jim.

 

 

This same GM liked to throw villains at us with disads like Vulnerable to Bullets ("Hey, anybody with a NORMAL gun can stop this 80 STR, 40 PD/40ED Brick...") and Suceptible to Coffee ("It causes him Body damage, and it's VERY common...").

More abusive GMing.

 

I can see giving a villain a vulnerability to bullets if this weakness fits his powers (his crystalline body tends to shatter when struck by high-velocity projectiles). I wouldn't feel guilty about it because a few of my players do grab and shoot firearms on occasion.

 

But susceptibility to coffee is a zero point disadvantage. What are the odds of the villain getting smacked by a coffee maker during any fight?

 

I'd even be reluctant to use vulnerability to cold, since none of my current players have cold attacks. I'd probably still use it for Blaze (since they might start trying to use cold, water, & ice from the environment to drop him), but I would strongly consider using a different vulnerability for Jungle Jim.

 

 

I was quite happy in one pivotal fight when the TK hero creamed a villain, then realized that the villain barely blinked. He immediately started screaming for one of the weaker heroes to come up and shoot the villain with an energy attack.

 

That's teamwork.

[Kristopher]

Re: Achilles' Heels

 

I don't make any who are all or nothing, like you've described.

 

I do make most who have limiting weaknesses. I actually have a house rule that "Nobody is immune to everything."

 

A villain might have amazing PD, but modest ED. Or he might have great PD/ED, but minimal resistant defenses. Or they might have phenomenal DCV, but low enough defenses to find AEs to be a real threat.

 

One of my players has phenomenal resistant defenses, but no mental defense. Another one has terrific rPD, good mental def, but modest ED. Another player loses a good bit of DEX & SPD in electro-magnetic fields.

 

If someone has a vulnerability (as a number of my villains do), there's a logical reason for that weakness.

 

You wouldn't like my favorite Champs PC, who didn't do a ton of damage, but could take it like a 10-ton block of self-sealing granite. Full Life Support, Power Def, Mental Def, Flash Def, 25 PD and ED with 15 of each Resistant, Regeneration, and started with a 16 REC. And it wasn't just his powers...things just always worked out in the game so that just as someone was about to put him into "Recovery Next Month" territory, something would stop them...they'd roll an 18, or someone would get knocked back into them, or a teammate of theirs would miss and blast them, or a teammate of mine would finish off a villain and switch, whatever. T'Shenk Kennet just never went down and stayed down.