Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

[OddHat]

Your players want a base. Do you charge points for basic lights, bathrooms, stoves, refrigerators, etc.?

 

It's an Avenger's Mansion style base in the middle of the campaign city. Do they have to pay poinst for lights, heat and plumbing?

 

What if it were a hidden lair under the city, Lex Luthor in SUperman I style?

 

What if it were a space station?

 

Thoughts?

[zornwil]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Mostly, no. I think these can be ascribed as essentially SFX. I do think for space or unusual environments some Life Support for clean air/such is called for but I wouldn't bother with worrying about bathrooms or refrigerators or light or stoves AS SUCH in that situation. If the ability is "we can live in here without bringing in food for a LONG time" then, yes, some sort of LS for that is called for absolutely certainly in a Sci-Fi or heroic game and depending on the degree (a few days, nah, "infiitely" or years, for sure yes) in a Champions game.

[lemming]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Your players want a base. Do you charge points for basic lights, bathrooms, stoves, refrigerators, etc.?

 

It's an Avenger's Mansion style base in the middle of the campaign city. Do they have to pay poinst for lights, heat and plumbing?

 

What if it were a hidden lair under the city, Lex Luthor in SUperman I style?

 

What if it were a space station?

 

Thoughts?

Charging for bathrooms explains a lot of those earlier plans for the FF & Avengers...

[TheEmerged]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Generally I consider this to fall under the "basics" of the base. Unless there's some reason it would matter in a combat situation or perform a noticeable out-of-combat function, it's not worth worrying about the points.

[zornwil]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Charging for bathrooms explains a lot of those earlier plans for the FF & Avengers...

 

"Now, Thor, just go outside, just like the old Vikings did, come on, you're used to it."

 

"Easy for THOU to say, yon Vision!"

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Your players want a base. Do you charge points for basic lights, bathrooms, stoves, refrigerators, etc.?

 

It's an Avenger's Mansion style base in the middle of the campaign city. Do they have to pay poinst for lights, heat and plumbing?

 

What if it were a hidden lair under the city, Lex Luthor in SUperman I style?

 

What if it were a space station?

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I don't see a need to charge for lights, heat, and plumbing normally. If it was in the middle of nowhere, I might require an END Reserve for Batteries, Solar Panels, Wind Turbines, etc that represented the bases power grid. It would probably be fairly small if all it did was run lights and recharge other people's END reserves. Call it 1 END/Turn for every 100 hexes.

 

Now, if it was space station, or under the ocean, or at the north pole. Now we need to talk about Life Support. This is the hidden cost to building way out there.

 

Has the Ultimate Headquarters come out yet?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

I don't charge points for anything trivial. I might allow a Disad on the Base/Vehicle if it did not possess such standard equipment or the ability to accomidate it (and also had no counterpart to make up for the loss) though.

 

Granted, I've certainly allowed for such things to be bought, if the players wanted some "really good" equipment. Like a freezer storage that keeps things "really" cold (Change Env, lots of -Temp Levels). Or maybe a "really" big pantry (LS: Eats Once A Year, which is when the shopping is done). Perhaps the lighting is arranged is such a way at to actually enhance the ability to notice anything in the area (Sight Group Images +4 PER Rolls; Only To Create Light). But if all they want is a fridge to keep the cheese and milk cold, and a few lamps... go for it. After all, I let them have that antigravity staircase and inertialess elevator for free (just part of the basic base layout and design).

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

I don't see a need to charge for lights' date=' heat, and plumbing normally. If it was in the middle of nowhere, I might require an END Reserve for Batteries, Solar Panels, Wind Turbines, etc that represented the bases power grid. It would probably be fairly small if all it did was run lights and recharge other people's END reserves. Call it 1 END/Turn for every 100 hexes.[/quote']

That's already taken into account. Remember the modifier to the base cost for its location? The extra points you pay for a remote location are supposed to be for things like this...things you could get "for free" if the base was in an urban area.

[Lightray]

Following the examples given in Champions and elsewhere, I've been giving my bases LS: Heat/Cold costs END for their HVAC systems, just like I've been using Images light only for car's headlights.

 

Seems somewhat silly, but it ends up costing ~5 pts., for which the characters are paying 1/5. And it has come into use by being able to know what happens when they take out the power plant (END reserve) - do the lights go out, or stay on?

 

(the CU has some really good HVAC technology, though, since most superhero bases handle Extreme heat and cold just fine. it's like every one is built to handle the Sahara or Antarctica...)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

I dont charge for the basic amenities any standard dwelling, office space, or facility would have.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Basic amenities such as rest rooms and kitchen appliances can be considered "everybase" abilities. They may be written up (for purposes of Dispel and other Adjustment Powers, or similar effects), but don't have to be, and may be hand-waved.

[MitchellS]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Our GM doesn't even charge character points for bases and team vehicles. Numbers seldom even come into play. For our base we know the basic dimensions, layout, labs, security systems, and defense/body. That's really it. I have no idea whether our base cost 500 or 5,000 points.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

I was wondering... does anyone have any writeups for "exceptional" standard equipment for Bases and Vehicles? Like a toilet/garbage disposal that's bought as an RKA because it disentrigrates waste, and can then be used as a weapon against invaders that decide to ambush you in the bathroom/kitchen? Or a walk-in freezer than you can use to actually freeze someone you toss in there, rather than just make them cold?

[OddHat]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

I was wondering... does anyone have any writeups for "exceptional" standard equipment for Bases and Vehicles? Like a toilet/garbage disposal that's bought as an RKA because it disentrigrates waste' date=' and can then be used as a weapon against invaders that decide to ambush you in the bathroom/kitchen? Or a walk-in freezer than you can use to actually freeze someone you toss in there, rather than just make them cold?[/quote']

 

Night Hunter's Hunt Lodge has some funky everyday gadgets. Follow the link in my sig to the first post in the thread, then the link to the Lodge near the bottom of the first post.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

In the New Sentinels game, we haven't really paid points for bases of any kind. We just get what seems to fit the character.

 

In the Aegis game, we pay for our Base, but only for meaningful content. The site, basic structure, and trivial stuff like furnishings are free. Of course, the *reason* we get this for free is because we are sanctioned superheroes for the city of Chicago, and beholden to Mayor Daley. . .

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

That's already taken into account. Remember the modifier to the base cost for its location? The extra points you pay for a remote location are supposed to be for things like this...things you could get "for free" if the base was in an urban area.

 

This reminds me when my friend bought a base with the modifier Airborne and when the GM asked, "How does it remain airborne?" He looked very sheepish and said, "Because I paid the points?" Later, he came up with a wonderful explaination based on it being attached by a cable into another dimension and it would routinely drift between nearby dimensions.

 

 

Using the house rule I described, a 1000 hex base needs 10 REC 10 END, End Reserve 6 points, OAF (-1) , Immobile (-1) which would be 2 points. If you added a 1 minute (-3/4) start up time, and requires maintanence or it will break down (-1/4), then it's about 1 point. So, it's not going to break the bank unless you have a really large base, and then you can argue that its 10 END/Turn for 1000 hexes and +10 END per doubling.

[tracer]

Of course you should pay points for appliances.

 

That blender on the kitchen counter's got at least a 1/2d6 HKA going for it.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Your players want a base. Do you charge points for basic lights' date=' bathrooms, stoves, refrigerators, etc.?[/quote']

Hell, No! Not only that, but if a GM actually wanted you charge me points for those things, I would have to make an EGO Roll at -5 to stop myself from slapping him! And I don't care if the base is in the city, the country, on a remote mountain top, underwater, or on the moon! There is no added game effect for lights and toilets on the moon than there is for the same things downtown. Therefore, no additional charge of character points!

 

I would charge points for Superman's Fortress of Solitude. I would charge points for Batman's Bat Cave. I would never charge points for Peter Parker's ordinary apartment. Would you?

 

If a superteam had a "base" which was nothing more than a large, but ordinary house, with closets to store spare costumes and ammo, a comfortable living room with a big screen HDTV with digital cable, bedrooms to sleep in, a conference room with a big table to have meetings in, a big room with a podium to hold press conferences in, a patio, BBQ grill, and swimming pool to relax in, and of course, lights, heat, AC, plumbing, etc. - I would charge 0 points for it! Why? Because it offers no game benefit at all. It's just an ordinary house. Larger tham most perhaps, so it can accommodate a dozen heroes, but still an ordinary house. Do you charge your characters for owning an ordinary home? It can even have security and safety features like ordinary burgler alarms, smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, disaster supplies, and first aid kits. There can be a PC or Mac in every room with a high-speed internet connection. And it still costs 0 points in my game. Because these are things any ordinary person in the game world could have for money. Yes, someone (maybe more than one) on the team might need to have the Money Perk in order to justify such luxury, or maybe the government could pay for it (it's a small price to pay for all the good those heroes have done for this city), or they might have some mysterious or eccentric benefactor.

 

If its got a full criminology lab inside, or walls made of something significantly stronger than any conventional building material, or a built in AI computer with links to sensitive government info from around the world, or a "troublert", or a fully automated medical center, or incapacitating weapons to stop intruders, or EMP protection for its electronics and power systems, etc., then it will cost points.

[nexus]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Normally, I would not charge points for basic facilities. In fact, if you wanted for some reason to represent a base that lacked such amenities I would allow of small Physical Limitation on the base to account for it.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

I would charge points for Superman's Fortress of Solitude. I would charge points for Batman's Bat Cave. I would never charge points for Peter Parker's ordinary apartment. Would you?

 

Hmm. 1 Bedroom apartment let's works out (because I'm bored and have no life)

 

0........2 BODY (Cheap but standard walls)

0........2 DEF (Cheap but standard walls)

4.........Size: 20 hexes (Damn, that's big for a one-bedroom)

5.........Suburb (I bet it counts as in the City, but just in case)

-5........Watched by Landlord (Less Pow, 11-, Demands Rent)

-5........Deathtrap, x1 1/2 from Fire (Common)

-20......Distinctive Features: Why the hell would anyone live here? (Not Conceal, Major Reaction)

 

Dude, apartments are cheap, especially in Champions.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Night Hunter's Hunt Lodge has some funky everyday gadgets. Follow the link in my sig to the first post in the thread' date=' then the link to the Lodge near the bottom of the first post. [/quote']

Now why does that "lodge" remind me of the Doctor's TARDIS?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Hell' date=' No![/b'] Not only that, but if a GM actually wanted you charge me points for those things, I would have to make an EGO Roll at -5 to stop myself from slapping him! And I don't care if the base is in the city, the country, on a remote mountain top, underwater, or on the moon! There is no added game effect for lights and toilets on the moon than there is for the same things downtown. Therefore, no additional charge of character points!

 

I would charge points for Superman's Fortress of Solitude. I would charge points for Batman's Bat Cave. I would never charge points for Peter Parker's ordinary apartment. Would you?

Right on!

 

If a superteam had a "base" which was nothing more than a large, but ordinary house, with closets to store spare costumes and ammo, a comfortable living room with a big screen HDTV with digital cable, bedrooms to sleep in, a conference room with a big table to have meetings in, a big room with a podium to hold press conferences in, a patio, BBQ grill, and swimming pool to relax in, and of course, lights, heat, AC, plumbing, etc. - I would charge 0 points for it! Why? Because it offers no game benefit at all. It's just an ordinary house. Larger tham most perhaps, so it can accommodate a dozen heroes, but still an ordinary house. Do you charge your characters for owning an ordinary home? It can even have security and safety features like ordinary burgler alarms, smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, disaster supplies, and first aid kits. There can be a PC or Mac in every room with a high-speed internet connection. And it still costs 0 points in my game. Because these are things any ordinary person in the game world could have for money. Yes, someone (maybe more than one) on the team might need to have the Money Perk in order to justify such luxury, or maybe the government could pay for it (it's a small price to pay for all the good those heroes have done for this city), or they might have some mysterious or eccentric benefactor.

I would be tempted to charge points for the space at last. The DEF and BODY of the walls would come free with that, as would all of the "everybase" stuff you mentioned. Although a highly reliable internet connection and access to spiffy stuff there might be worth a Perk (bought through the Base, rather than the character, because anyone in the Base could theoretically access it).

 

Of course, space is cheep. A single character point buys 5 points worth of Area, and that's about 3000 square feet; roughly the size of a lower end luxury home. Assuming a 5 character team that each pitches in 1 point for a Base with no Disads, and all you buy is Area, you'll end up with a Base with nearly 1.5 square miles of living space (and that doesn't even include the grounds)! I figure anything less than that is free; so long as all you want is the Area.

[OddHat]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

Now why does that "lodge" remind me of the Doctor's TARDIS?

 

You should check out the Lucky Dragon Chinese Restaurant (same thread).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

My apartment is aprox 800 square feet, and has a solid brick exterior. I live in Phoenix proper, so I figure I can call it City. No other special modifiers... so

 

4 BODY 2

5 DEF 9

2 SIZE 4 (20 hexes)

 

5 Hunted: Landlord 8- As Powerful, NCI, Watching

10 Social Limitation: Apartment (noisy neighbors, schmucks parking in your space, sharing the pool and laundry room, etc...) Frequently, Minor

 

Total Cost 0

 

Apartments are indeed cheep in Champions.

 

Hmm. 1 Bedroom apartment let's works out (because I'm bored and have no life)

 

0........2 BODY (Cheap but standard walls)

0........2 DEF (Cheap but standard walls)

4.........Size: 20 hexes (Damn, that's big for a one-bedroom)

5.........Suburb (I bet it counts as in the City, but just in case)

-5........Watched by Landlord (Less Pow, 11-, Demands Rent)

-5........Deathtrap, x1 1/2 from Fire (Common)

-20......Distinctive Features: Why the hell would anyone live here? (Not Conceal, Major Reaction)

 

Dude, apartments are cheap, especially in Champions.

[Rapier]

Re: Bases: Do you charge points for appliances and utilities?

 

No. I've got a couple of inter-twining philosophies about this kind of thing.

 

1) Cost-Benefit: There is no real in-game benefit for having a refreigerator, food processor or cable TV. Since there is no benefit, it seems miserly to demand that the players pay for nothing.

 

2) Spoon: There was a thread a while back that created some designs for common household items (primarily a spoon). Creating a spoon, refrigerator, etc is VERY expensive. Considering that your average person is built on 150 pts, spending 35 points on a food processor seems a little excessive.

 

3) Intangibles: Part and parcel of the base/vehicle build is the "intangibles." Every car comes with an adjustable seat, some kind of heating system, a radio etc...for free. To actually design a vehicle or a base to such a granular level would be very time consuming, extremely expensive and drive you quite batty (and not in the good Running Around Gotham City in your UnderWear with your Ward and HomoSexual Lover kind of way).

 

While you are under no obligation to give away a 52" Flat Panel TV, hologram projector, Jaguar XJ8L, etc to every SuperTom, PowerDick (heh that made me laugh) and MegaHarry that walks past, it is reasonable to assume that the basics are covered. I would also beware of "item creep" where the heroes are going to "assume" that they will have every kind of equipment they could want. A nice wooden spoon or food processor is no big. A small fusion reactor, spare power generator etc is not.