Frenchman Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... I like Dazed, woks much better than stunned. In my game, thought, we lean towards Clobbered. It's just more evocative. The only other ones I see as having any point to changing are seduction (I'd call it Befriend, or somesuch. The name is misleading) and Damage Resistance (DR is used for Damage Reduction and it'd be nice to have an acronym for both). Other than that, none of the names ever really confused me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... I like Dazed a lot as a replacement for Stunned. Ranged Attack instead of Energy Blast. Restrain instead of Entangle. I'm OK with the other terms as is, although replacing Hand to Hand Attack with Melee Attack makes sense too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... I don't mind dazed. Entangle is fine by me thought. RKA HKA RA - ranged attack HA - hand to hand attack Would be just fine for me on that front. And whenever I've used a ranged attack that does damage against PD I've always refered to it at "Physical Blast" rather than Energy Blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Or instead of "Dazed", we could rename CON Stunned to "Fazed." There's no possible chance of confusion with that word! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Personally' date=' I'd rename Stunned to Dazed. Stunned sounds too much like STUN. Dazed means the same thing and there's absolutely nothing in the game that sounds like that word.[/quote'] I agree with that. That's a source of confusion every time with every new player. Even with experienced players, you have to clarify whether by "stunned" you mean "reduced to zero Stun" or "have taken more Stun damage than the character's Con". I'd rename "Energy Blast" to simply "Blast", for obvious reasons. I'd rename "Desolidification" to "Intangibility" or "Density Decrease", because "Desolidification" is the kind of word a six-year-old or an illiterate would make up, thinking that it means something. That kind of thing irks me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Ones I can think of off the top of my head... That's a great list, Derek. Most of those hadn't occurred to me, but seem obvious now that you've mentioned them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bblackmoor Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... That might be the best explaination I've seen of why people say CON stunned yet. An old game group of mine used to call that "instantly stunned", referring to the fact that the character was only "stunned" for an instant (a phase, really, but you know what I mean). I'm not sure if that phrase was ever in the Champoions rules, though. It might have been, at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christougher Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Repeating myself from the 'what would you drop' thread. Succor needs to die, Boost is a much better name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted December 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... I've always hated the term CON Stunned, but it's stuck. I don't remember where I first heard it, or even if I just said it by mistake one day. I'm trying really hard to either used Stunned or Dazed when in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted December 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Repeating myself from the 'what would you drop' thread. Succor needs to die' date=' Boost is a much better name.[/quote'] I actually like Succor. It's a nice contrast to Suppress, it's opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Yeah. I never ran across the term till I hit the net. I had the great pleasure of having it introduced in a Convention game. I'm thinking "The character has been played too much at this con?" So me and my friends started getting INT, EGO, & COM stunned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... I agree with that. That's a source of confusion every time with every new player. Even with experienced players' date=' you have to clarify whether by "stunned" you mean "reduced to zero Stun" or "have taken more Stun damage than the character's Con".[/quote'] We never had that problem. You were either Stunned or Knocked Out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted December 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... INT' date=' EGO, & COM stunned.[/quote']Is that like a really bad hangover ( ), or the actual after con party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Pedant mode on: There is no such thing as CON stunned. If the damage exceeds your CON you are stunned. That is stunned. If you lose all your stun you are unconcious. Repeat - There is no CON stunned. Pedant mode off: Sorry. Pet peeve. Got your back, LM. I've never understood the need either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Pedant mode on: There is no such thing as CON stunned. If the damage exceeds your CON you are stunned. That is stunned. If you lose all your stun you are unconcious. Repeat - There is no CON stunned. Pedant mode off: Sorry. Pet peeve. **shrug** It's what everyone I learned HERO from called the thing. EDIT: And even though a character is knocked out when they run out of STUN, I've seen too many people use "stunned" to describe that state, so I've kept using "CON Stunned" to avoid confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... I actually like Succor. It's a nice contrast to Suppress' date=' it's opposite.[/quote'] DUH! Everyone knows that the opposite of SuCCoR is RoXXoR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Excellent ideas. I do like the idea of adopting Dazed given the lack of relationship to STUN. That one gets my vote. So do these: Energy Blast to Ranged Attack. Disadvantages --> Limitations, and as a side note move them in the book just after Perks - or roll them into the same grouped section and call it "Character Modifiers" Limitations --> Disadvantages Package Deal --> Package Haymaker --> All-Out Attack Force Wall --> Barrier Force Field --> Defense Field I do think it's annoying/stupid that we call the good modifiers "Advantages" but then use "Disadvantages" for something completely different. Armor is borderline. I don't like "Tough" or "Toughness", they're so generic they can easily be applied to Damage Reduction. I think another term would be nice, but I can't think of a really good one. Perhaps "Inherent Defense Force " (if Force Field becomes Defense Field, this is sort of what Armor really is). As to the notion it's pedantry to change the names, I disagree. The idea is to have a generic universal system (yeah, I know, that's close to a proper noun there...). It is confusing for people to see "Energy Blast" and then be told their thrown club is an "energy" blast versus "physical" defense. I also think as Derek notes Seduction should be called something else. People get very hung up on that loaded term. Personally I'd call it Charm. I think that's easier to grasp and readily distinguishable from Persuasion or other such things. I don't think Desolid needs to change per se, but one thing I'd grant bblackmoor and would be nice - Intangibility will pass spell-check whereas Desolid won't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... It only just occured to me' date=' [i']Restrain[/i] fits quite well. Restrain is good. I would also suggest "Immobilize" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Restrain is good. I would also suggest "Immobilize" I wasn't keen on any suggested Entangle changes, but Immobilize really is a good idea, it best represents the goal of the power. Good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Of course, none of the proposed names for Entangle reflect he ability to make barriers with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... That assumes that everyone wants to read through the descriptions of every power before they start playing. A lot of people would rather look for the powers they need for their first character. **shrug** Their loss. If someone new to Hero is trying to build a ranged physical attack like a gun he's not likely to think a power called Energy Blast is what he needs. I did. Also, if he already knows that energy and physical defenses are separate he's likely to assume from the name that an Energy Blast is related specifically to Energy Defense. Or he could avoid making assumptions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Of course' date=' none of the proposed names for Entangle reflect he ability to make barriers with it.[/quote']I suppose "Impede" might do the trick. "Restrain" or "Immobilize" still are both better than Entangle. (I prefer "Restrain" myself.) And Entangle certainly doesn't reflect the ability to make barriers either. I would dump the ability to make barriers from Entangle and make it a subset of Force Wall anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcholmes Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... Yeah' date=' I hate CON stunned as a term too. I've never understood how people could get confused by Stunned.[/quote'] That surprises me. Knowing that you're a technical writer, I kinda thought that you'd be much more attuned to the dangers of giving things confusable names. It was certainly never a problem in the groups I played with. Obviously I know nothing about your con experiences, but I think I know a number of the people you've gamed with. My perception is that they're: - mathematically/technically inclined - read a lot - long-time rpgers - who have their own copies of the rulebooks It doen't surprise me that a group like that doesn't have a problem with a very math-like way of organizing information ("We define 'stunned' as..."). I often play with a lot of first-time gamers, and even when I have players with RPG experience, it's almost never with the Hero rules. I struggle, regularly, with trying to simply and easily communicate Hero concepts to these people. I really grok the original point of this thread -- trying to identify potential areas of confusion and looking for alternative ways of communicating the concepts. (This also overlaps a lot with what my job is about -- trying to design computer applications in a way that ensures that people who are nothing like me can take them over and change or support them relatively safely). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurbal Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... **shrug** Their loss. I disagree. If they decide it's too confusing to make a character it's DoJ's loss when they lose a potential customer and my loss when I can't find players. I did. Wasn't it you arguing that a single person's perception shouldn't be used to guage whether a name should or shouldn't be changed? Since you do "get it" clearly we're not talking about you. Nobody's saying these names don't make sense to anyone. That doesn't mean they're the best names or that they don't confuse some (or maybe a lot of) people who are just learning the system. Or he could avoid making assumptions... Everyone makes assumptions. We all see things through the lense of our own experiences. For example, you're making one right now - that others won't have problems understanding these things because you didn't. I definitely like Restrain for Entangle, Ranged Attack for EB and Dazed for Stunned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Re: An EB by any other name... No assumptions, just expressing my utter disdain for the constant undertone of "change this, change that, change half the game" that seems to wax and wane like the eternal tides on these forums. Making major changes to the game is just as likely to lose existing players as it is to gain new players. Note how Fuzion bombed like crazy. If all the changes that are regularly proposed on these boards were actually made, it wouldn't even be HERO any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.