STUN Reduction

[crayadder]

How would you people work a STUN Reduction power that affects both energy and physical damage? Would you buy 2 DRs with Stun Only on them or do you think there are any good arguments for allowing a single STUN only DR that costs the price of one normal DR?

 

eg. 75% Resistant ED DR Cost 60 - STUN Only -1/2 Real Cost 40

75% Resistant PD DR Cost 60 - STUN Only -1/2 Real Cost 40

Total 80

 

or 75% Resistant PD/ED STUN Reduction - Cost 60

 

Have at it

[RDU Neil]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

In my experience, the single best power a character can have is Stun Damage Reduction. Just look at how ugly/broken 80 points can be (75% for both Phys and Energ.)... and you want to REDUCE that cost? Holy criminey? Your combats will never end...

 

All I can say is, if you actually allow PCs to have 75% DR... I can't believe you'd actually lower the cost. That's just scary!

[crayadder]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

That is my thought as well. Although, as a player, my GM has allowed me to have 50% Stun DR -

[lemming]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

In my experience, the single best power a character can have is Stun Damage Reduction. Just look at how ugly/broken 80 points can be (75% for both Phys and Energ.)... and you want to REDUCE that cost? Holy criminey? Your combats will never end...

 

All I can say is, if you actually allow PCs to have 75% DR... I can't believe you'd actually lower the cost. That's just scary!

 

Well, in my experience that could be 40/40 PD & ED so it's not as bad. There are some other considerations like NNDs, the effect of not being stunned and such, but you have to get to a certain number of dice before it's always better than just straight defenses.

 

That being said, I wouldn't go for the combined. I do allow damage reduction vs. certain SFX apply to regardless of PD/ED. (just to avoid edge cases).

 

Of course, STUN only is suspect in my book since in most cases if your base defenses are high enough, you rarely have to deal with reducing the body. (And i've been in games with a few 15/16 reduction things running about)

[RDU Neil]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

Well' date=' in my experience that could be 40/40 PD & ED so it's not as bad. There are some other considerations like NNDs, the effect of not being stunned and such, but you have to get to a certain number of dice before it's always better than just straight defenses.[/quote']

 

Just anecdotal... but 40/40 can be hammered and blasted and eventually worn down. Hit 'em with a big enough attack, they still feel it. 75% DR? Takes a friggin' nuke to make them notice!

 

Of course, STUN only is suspect in my book since in most cases if your base defenses are high enough, you rarely have to deal with reducing the body. (And i've been in games with a few 15/16 reduction things running about)

 

I also agree that Stun Only is a bit cheesy... though I do allow it. More to the point... when starting character point levels go up... and/or PCs get lots of experience... the flat cost of DR becomes much less an issue. (A 500 point character gets the same effect, for the same cost as a 350 point character, but because damages are higher, is actually getting more for his points.)

 

Flat costed abilities in Hero are the first things to show cracks when point levels get high enough.

 

I do allow 25% and 50% DR in certain cases... but I base it on the total other defenses being significantly lower than the campaign standard. 10 total Def... you can have 50% DR... 15-20 total Def... you can have 25% DR...

 

Other than that, it's unlikely unless we are talking really high level characters.

[Kirby]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

How would you people work a STUN Reduction power that affects both energy and physical damage? Would you buy 2 DRs with Stun Only on them or do you think there are any good arguments for allowing a single STUN only DR that costs the price of one normal DR?

 

eg. 75% Resistant ED DR Cost 60 - STUN Only -1/2 Real Cost 40

75% Resistant PD DR Cost 60 - STUN Only -1/2 Real Cost 40

Total 80

 

or 75% Resistant PD/ED STUN Reduction - Cost 60

 

Have at it

I personally think the -1/2 modifier is way too generous. IF I were to allow it, I'd make it a -1/4 modifier, after all, it's really the STUN that the vast majority are wanting reduced. Also, the PC's or NPC's defenses would have to be low. In my campaign, one of the players is a shadow themed character. She has 8 PD (0 Resistant!) and 50% Dmg Red/Resist. I would allow her to buy up to 75%, but that's because her defenses are so low.

[Kirby]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

or 75% Resistant PD/ED STUN Reduction - Cost 60

Oh, and this, no, I'd never allow it. Even with your generous limitation above, the character is now saving 20 extra points on your idea, or 60 points from the power design (which would be -in effect- a -1 limitation!)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

Count me in with the "buy them separately" group.

 

I also agree that a character with damage reduction should expect to have relatively low base defenses. Taking campaign average defenses and adding damage reduction is no more acceptable than buying campaign average defenses through each of PD/ED, Armor and Force Field so you end up with triple the average.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

Count me in for 'buy them separately with a limitation', 1/4 or 1/2 depending on the level of the character's other defenses.

[crayadder]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

Ok, now throw it in a campaign where you have the chance of being shot at buy a 16D RKA! This is a transformer campaign and points for NPCs run from 400 to 1000. The 16d RKA is for Omega Supreme's Plasma Blaster, which is supposed to "pulverize a solid 12' x 12' x 12' steel cube" - http://tfarchive.com/comics/genone/universe/tfuomegasupreme.php.

 

Either way, do you feel that in a high powered campaign like this that allowing the DR rules and accepted usage to flex more than normal? As per my original post?

[Arkham]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

Ok' date=' now throw it in a campaign where you have the chance of being shot at buy a 16D RKA! This is a transformer campaign and points for NPCs run from 400 to 1000. The 16d RKA is for Omega Supreme's Plasma Blaster, which is supposed to [i']"pulverize a solid 12' x 12' x 12' steel cube"[/i] - http://tfarchive.com/comics/genone/universe/tfuomegasupreme.php.

 

Either way, do you feel that in a high powered campaign like this that allowing the DR rules and accepted usage to flex more than normal? As per my original post?

 

Nope. If you've got that many points, buy it at (nearly) full cost.

[RDU Neil]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

Ok' date=' now throw it in a campaign where you have the chance of being shot at buy a 16D RKA! This is a transformer campaign and points for NPCs run from 400 to 1000. The 16d RKA is for Omega Supreme's Plasma Blaster, which is supposed to [i']"pulverize a solid 12' x 12' x 12' steel cube"[/i] - http://tfarchive.com/comics/genone/universe/tfuomegasupreme.php.

 

Either way, do you feel that in a high powered campaign like this that allowing the DR rules and accepted usage to flex more than normal? As per my original post?

 

As Arkham said...

 

I don't have a problem with 75% DR at such a level... but why are you trying to wanker out a measly 20 points when you get to play with 1000? You shouldn't need to be sweating 20 points at that level... but YMMV. Heck... just buy the full 120 points worth... as I said, it gets more and more useful, for a smaller percentage of points spent, when you get into high level games.

[Kirby]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

Ok' date=' now throw it in a campaign where you have the chance of being shot at buy a 16D RKA! This is a transformer campaign and points for NPCs run from 400 to 1000. The 16d RKA is for Omega Supreme's Plasma Blaster, which is supposed to [i']"pulverize a solid 12' x 12' x 12' steel cube"[/i].

Well, if a 16d6RKA is supposed to "pulverize" a 12' cube, that doesn't seem justification to by the DmgRed of only versus STUN.

 

Think of it this way:

(PC1) Hey, Bob, Optimus Prime just melted half of my torso.

(PC2) Well, it's a good thing you're awake for it, you can shoot back, now.

I just don't see the logic you're looking for.

 

Either way' date=' do you feel that in a high powered campaign like this that allowing the DR rules and accepted usage to flex more than normal? As per my original post?[/quote']

Actually, to me, this new information gives me less of a reason to accept it. Your point range is from 400 to 1000, a 600 point variable (!). If your characters have that much experience or even if they're starting out in that ballpark, the argument for saving 20 points seems frugal on the extreme. If this is your campaign, you're calling the shots, but I would never allow it. You might be better off asking to buy PD with a limitation on "only versus stun," but it just seems very munchkin-like to me.

[BNakagawa]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

buy more stun.

[pinecone]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

Even with the additional info I'd want to pay full cost to get full benefit, and I'd insist on the same if I was running the game.....heck most big whammys in a Tranformers game will likely be energy, so I might save some points by buying DR 1/2 PDr and DR 3/4 EDr..........and buy my defenses at the minimal levels so I don't toe step on "mega defense guy"

[crayadder]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

You know, I am a very strict rule enforcer as a GM, and like it that way as a PC to be honest. It allows me to know the environmet. This exercise has been to give me insight on what kind of arguments there are for allowing, in this case, a obviously, to me, borked power. I thank you all for responding.

 

I do want to add another piece of info though, just to spice it up a bit more . 400-1000 is reserved for NPCs with Mini Bots falling in around 300. The PCs get 350 points with a 200point kit I made. So they get 100 points to spend with some leeway on modifications to the kit.

 

The STUN dr vs Omega was really just to let you know the power level and not supposed to be an example of an adequate defense against the Supreme, (psst! no one has an adequate defense for him, heh heh).

 

Have at it.

[Tech]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

In general, Damage Reduction is a case by case situation, except for villains. I think maybe five heroes total have ever had D.R. Currently, one of them if Flexiboy, a young superhero with stretching abilities with 50% Physical Resistant Damage Reduction. Other than that, I have the only player character to ever have 75% Resistant PD & ED Damage Reduction. Of course, I only have 24 Stun and up to 15 PD/ED. For those against a player having such high resistance, don't be too concerned: due to the complex way the character was created, he can be taken out by a normal with a rock if the GM needed to..

[CBikle]

Re: STUN Reduction

 

The old guidelines I used were that you could get a max of 30/30 resistant pd/ed or equivalent based on 90 active pts.

 

Example 1:

20/20 rPD/ED (60 active) and 15 % res. phys+en. damage reduction(30 active).

 

Example 2:

10/10 rPED/ED and 50 % res. phys+en. damage reduction.

 

No player ever wanted damage reduction vs. a specific sfx like fire or magic, but if they had, I probably would have treated that as a special case and been a little more lax.