davenx01 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 I have a character idea. He's a Brick, he has the Reputation of being a "dumb brick", and acts really dumb "in costume". He is really a smart guy though. The power in question is, I want to deceive Mentalists. If someone trys to mind control him or use a mental power, I want them to "think" they succeed even if they don't. So how would you buy the deception, oviously I would need some mental defense, and maybe reduction. But it's the deception part I need to figure out. Acting Skill would probably be in use, but I would think I would need more than that. (However using "Acting" in Combat, is an interesting concept, that we've used before, [i.e. pretending to still be stunned]) If someone has Mental Defense, the Mentalist usually feels resistance, if the target isn't controlled, the Mentalist usually knows he failed. (This is what I want to avoid). Example: Mentalist: "Kill your Friends" Makes Mind Control Roll Brick: Makes Roll, Looks at friend, Menancingly, on his turn, attacks Mentalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: How would you build this Since this is a "how to," I've moved it to discussion so anyone who likes can offer an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: How would you build this How about this. You could buy invisibility to the mental sense group, so that mentalistics would have a hard time seeing your mind at all, then you could buy a duplicate that you had a mind link (also with invisible power effects) to, whose is desolid, and who wouldn't have much in the way of mental defenses. If your duplicate never moves (don't buy any movement, and sell back the running, buy clinging Affects physical world so that its attached to you). Something like that should work, but it maybe pricey... Also, it may not work. A really good mentalist might see something is wrong, but what fun is it when something works all the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: How would you build this Images to the mental group, -5, no range, invisible, persistent, 0 end plus 15 points of mental defense, probing telepathy only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: How would you build this I think Mitchell is on the right track. Images or mental illusions to make the menatlist "see" something different than what is there. Images is probably much cheaper and makes more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: How would you build this Images to the mental group' date=' -5, no range, invisible, persistent, 0 end [b']plus[/b] 15 points of mental defense, probing telepathy only. But this way you aren't going to know what the mentalist tried to order you to do. You aren't going to be able to play along... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: How would you build this Howzabout... +30 EGO, Only to Defend Against Mentalists (-1) Plus Images to Mental Group, Trigger Then, when the mentalist orders you (in your mind) to attack the wall, they roll their Mind Control roll, and unless they pass the new EGO, they fail. But if they pass the old EGO, then the Images trigger. Since they tried to Mind Control you, you also know what they ordered you to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenx01 Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: How would you build this I like the extra Ego Idea, Have to talk to My GM about that. Also hey, someone else From Portland, OR. Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: How would you build this You might also want to consider Shapeshift to the Mental group, if your GM operates by the house rule that Telepathy is a mental sense. Another possibility is Mental Defense, Invisible Power Effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: How would you build this But this way you aren't going to know what the mentalist tried to order you to do. You aren't going to be able to play along... Unless the mentalist has Telepathic mind control, he has to communicate his orders verbally. If you couldn't hear them to play along, you also couldn't hear them to follow his orders if he succeeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: How would you build this Unless the mentalist has Telepathic mind control' date=' he has to communicate his orders verbally. If you couldn't hear them to play along, you also couldn't hear them to follow his orders if he succeeded.[/quote'] And if he does have the Telpathic adder, you're still going to "hear" his commands. I don't see that there's a problem. I like MitchellS's suggestion of Images above, along with whoever suggested IPE on his Mental Defense (which you could also put on his EGO, if you wanted to buy it way up like someone else suggested). Explain again, though, what all this convoluted power construction would really accomplish. As I understand it, you'd "menace" an ally on one phase, then attack the mentalist on the next. I guess, what, you'd expect him to have his guard down for a phase? No CSLs to DCV or something? That's assuming he had a phase in between mentalizing you and being attacked, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Re: How would you build this I'm not sure if I'm playing the same way everyone else is. Mentalists have no way of knowing if their attack succeeded or failed, or by how much in either way. The most information the'll get from simply attacking is a rough idea of the target's ECV (based on how well or poor their attack roll was) and a sense of wether or not the target has Mental Defense (but not how much). Other than that, they have to observe the target to see what happens, the same as any other attack. Even then, the mentalist won't know anything new until the target's next action (when he makes his EGO Roll). When playing like this, fooling the mentalist depends on the Mental Power he's using. Ego Attack: An Acting Roll to appear hurt or injured. Mental Illusions: Mental Awareness, Discriminatory to know what the illusion is supposed to be of, and possibly an Acting Roll to convince other's you are interacting with/believing it. Mind Control: Mental Awareness, Discriminatory to know what the command is (for telepathic commands) and possibly an Acting Roll to appear to be following the command. Mind Scan: Invisible to Mental Sense Group plus Mental Group Images (only to create an image of the character's mind), No Range. The mentalist will lock onto the image instead of you, and the image will react to any Mental Power the mentalist uses. Mental Awareness, Discriminatory would come in handy to know what Mental Powers the mentalist is using. The down side to this is that the mentalist will still know where you are. Telepathy: Same as with Mind Scan, only this time the Images are there to create thoughts of your choosing that the mentalist will read in place of your own. The Invisibility is pretty much useless here though if the mentalist has LOS. Also, never underestimate putting Invisible Power Effect on Mental Defense. The mentalist will think you are defenseless when he hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicPegasus Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Re: How would you build this Mental Defence (Invisible Power Effects +1/2, IPE Hides the Effects of the Use of the Power -1/2) This would make your Mental Defence invisible even if the mentalist bought detect mental powers as a targeting sence. This already hides the effects of your mental defence and you don't need acting or some special transform power to decive the opponent. But it wouldn't hurt if you want to be especially convincing to counter someone with special enhanced senses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Re: How would you build this This would best work in extended scenarios ... "I will mind control your Brick into helping me build my secret base and erase his memory" or some such drawn out scenario where you would want to play along but really have control over your mental facilities. And Images wouldn't prevent you from hearing the command I don't believe, a failed Mind Control roll is seen mentally as any normal power is seen visually. If they fail to control you you know that something just tried to get you (a lot like something tried to shoot at you) and I believe they have to state the command as or before they attempt. In which case Images kicks on when they fail making them think they succeeded, and all the player has to do is play along. my thoughts on it... it's not the most useful power, but it is kind of neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Re: How would you build this This was obviously playing on my mind. When I woke up this morning I had a construct in my head - triggered MIND CONTROL, only when mind control attempted - only to convince egoist that control attemp succeeded, no concious control. You could buy skill levels with that and it shouldn't need to great a success roll - might need invisible power effects though... After all, what you need is to convince the mentalist he succeeded - this convinces him as long as you don't do anything too contradictory to that. With a good roll on the mind control dice you might even get away with some outrageous behaviour. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhope Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Re: How would you build this I didn't want to read through but first post said you didn't want the mentalist to know the target has defenses, so in effect he doesn't understand why his powers aren't working and eventually make him think they are working when they aren't. Make your brick's Mental Defense IPE mental +1/2. The mentalist wont feel the resistance. Next have a Mind Control dmg shield, with set command, "attacker believes his attack had full effect." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Re: How would you build this I didn't want to read through but first post said you didn't want the mentalist to know the target has defenses' date=' so in effect he doesn't understand why his powers aren't working and eventually make him think they are working when they aren't. Make your brick's Mental Defense IPE mental +1/2. The mentalist wont feel the resistance. Next have a Mind Control dmg shield, with set command, "attacker believes his attack had full effect."[/quote'] the reason I went with trigger rather than damage shield was two-fold. I didn't want the mind control to trigger against every attack, or even every mental attack. The second was that I didn't think the power warranted buying continuous on the Mind Control (damage shield only works for continuous attacks). Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhope Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Re: How would you build this yeah trigger can work; didn't think about that. But damage shield can only be on a continous power? that a 5th ED thing? My book says nothing of the sort :/. /sigh I need to get a 5thED book with a quickness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Re: How would you build this That's right, a 5th edition change. It's made DS _very_ expensive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Re: How would you build this Do you need a Trigger or a Damage Shield? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that Mind Control comes prepackaged with any knowledge of success. You order the target to do something. If they do it, it worked. If they say "Screw you", then it didn't. I'd just go with the Mental Defense, Invisible Power Effects to Mental, like Darkhope said. I don't think there's any necessary reason to try to "trick" the Mind Controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Re: How would you build this no need, but he wanted the mind controller to believe he was successful. the ds or trigger manages that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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