Setting up super-prisons

[Wanderer]

In the year or so meanwhile the Stronghold supplement gets written, how would *you* set up an effective (but not too effective; we still have to allow a chance for recurring supervillains NPc, and jailed supervillain or vigilante PCs, to escape...) prision structure for superhumans ?

 

Cell walls are generally 14 def and 10 body at their weakest point. You then have reinforcements for stronger characters [up to 24 def], desolidified, telportation, etc.

 

There are 52 guards stationed there at all times and 3 classes of robots. Type 1 are flying dispans designed to be small and agile. Type 2 is general purpose roboguard. Type 3 are the heavy-hitters.

 

The prison has "hot sleep" capabilities for those prisoners too powerful to be contained awake. The prison also has a giant vault that stores "things."

 

This is how previous Hero books statting up Stronghold describe it. What would you suggest ?

 

As for me, I'd use a three-tiered classification system for inmates. For super-normal martial artists and the like, maximum-security prison standards, plus cells with 14 def and 10 body might be acceptable. For low-powered and standard (250-400 pts) supers, "power negators", where available (the kind described in Champions, Gadgets & Gear and UNTIL: Continous Uncontrolled Drain Powers, proabably as some kind of collar/armband, to release some kind of paralyzing electrical shock or incapacitating drug if tampered), plus maximum security cells, as above, or reinforced cells with special safegaurds against character powers, like desolidifcation or teleport.

 

For cosmic power supers (the types like Gravitar, Viperia, Firewing, Holocaust, Grond, Dark Seraph), either "hot sleep" chambers, keeping inmates in suspended animation, where available, or stronger "power negators", plus reinforced special cells.

 

Where available, the whole structure might kept in special isolated location, like inhabitable planets, space stations, alternate hellish dimensions, billions of years in the past, deep underground, in the middle of a desert (Sahara, Gobi, Death Valley, Anctartic), or deep underground. Theoretically, the whole prison structure might be substituted by a whole "pocket dimension" prision (Think Escape from Absolom, only with superpowers), where you exile miscreants with a one-way teleport (EDM UAA). In CU, law enforcement in Adromeda Galaxy seem to use latter approach.

 

From a money-saving POV, I think that, where available at all, fitting each prisoner a "power negator", or putting him in "hot sleep", or shunting them to exile in prison pocket dimension" might be the most cost-effective choices, rather than setting up a whole set of extra-strong, cells each customized to inmate's powers.

[Lord Beavis]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

No offense, but I think super prisons are "one shot adventures" and there fore not really worth the time going in depth to describe them.

 

I liked the simplicity of the negative zone of Superman. It's simple to get them in, keep them there, and when you need the villian again, bring him/her back.

 

I liked Stronghold of 4th ed, and anything added it to it, would be an upgrade but nothing earth shattering!!!

[Vanguard00]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

I've almost always story-lined prisons, with very little reference to actual technical writeups. If I want someone held, they stay held. If I want someone to escape, they escape. I come up with plausable and realistic reasons for this to happen, but I don't worry about the mechanics of it.

 

I have used reinforced walls, restraints, power negators (very much like those used in the comic "Powers"), and "control collars". I've capitalized on known disads, vulnerabilities and susceptibilities and used 'em in cell construction. I've also put super-prisons in some inhospitable places (desert, underwater, arctic, in orbit, etc) to inhibit any but the most serious-minded escape attempts. I have yet to use "hot sleep" options, though. For some reason I can't imagine even the Champions Universe have reached that point yet. Temporary measures, sure, but not long-term suspended animation.

 

YMMV, of course.

[Wanderer]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

Hmm, maybe i'm more mindful of the topic because I usually set characters (like persecuted mutants, and wanted vigilantes) that have outstanding issues with law enforcement and *might* end up in super-prisons if captured.

[OddHat]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

I don't use super prisons. Which means I shouldn't post this, but I will anyway.

 

Here’s one set-up for a real-world with powers:

 

Non-powered costumed criminals are treated like any other sort of criminal, until the first time they escape. After that it’s maximum security, solitary, or the death penalty.

 

Powered criminals are kept heavily drugged until closed door government tribunals decide what to do with them. If you think this is too harsh, imagine where civil rights for Supers will be after just one or two 9-11 scale battles in a downtown area.

 

Super crooks that can’t be drugged or otherwise controlled are killed outright.

 

Super criminals that can be controlled are offered a chance to pay back their debt to society through government service, under strict supervision. Those that refuse are surgically altered to cripple their abilities and then serve time in a maximum security prison under the strictest possible supervision, with time off to participate as medical test subjects.

 

If you want to do a Stronghold type scenario in this setting, have the drugs being used to keep a recently captured group of villains under control tampered with, maybe because one villain had an unknown immunity to poisons.

 

If you prefer a slightly more four color approach, go with the Stormwatch suspended animation chambers. That’s as four color as I like to get; make prison a joke and players (ime) stop bothering to bring anyone in alive.

[Iuz the Evil]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

I don't use super prisons. Which means I shouldn't post this, but I will anyway.

 

Here’s one set-up for a real-world with powers:

 

Non-powered costumed criminals are treated like any other sort of criminal, until the first time they escape. After that it’s maximum security, solitary, or the death penalty.

 

Powered criminals are kept heavily drugged until closed door government tribunals decide what to do with them. If you think this is too harsh, imagine where civil rights for Supers will be after just one or two 9-11 scale battles in a downtown area.

 

Super crooks that can’t be drugged or otherwise controlled are killed outright.

 

That's definitely realistic. Problem is, with actual superbeings who "push the envelope" point-wise (especially 800+), if you go with the "killed outright" you have to find a way to do it. If they're invulnerable enough, this can present a real problem - oh I can see it being implemented easily enough until you start getting up into that "white knight" defense range. The government just isn't going to drop 10 or 12 nuclear weapons on a condemned prisoner so they can execute him, the environmental and political repercussions are too severe. I can think of similar problems for other high end power sets. It'll work for most supers though.

 

Also, I can see a problem developing for people on the "secret government tribunals" real quick. How long before their identity is routinely revealed by a villainous mentalist? Whoops, Dr. Destroyer knows you ordered the execution of three of his henchmen. Guys, we need a new government tribunal over here... What's that, we have a shortage of volunteers? No problem, you three, you're our new tribunal. What do you mean "not guilty"?

 

Staying within the existing Justice system will mitigate this to a large extent. Gives the prosecuting body the benefit of having legitimacy, which translates into a more widely accepted resolution of criminal behavior. The "post 9-11" reference is especially apt here, as even the FBI is expressing concerns about the legitimacy of our present maneuverings in several respects. As one agent mentioned (I'm paraphrasing here): sooner or later we have to decide what to do with these people, what happens when they go to court and the issue of their detention is raised? Even the federal government isn't sure about that one.

 

I thought the Dark Champions rulebook (4th Ed.) did a very nice breakdown of the American legal system as it pertains to superhuman criminals.

 

Anyway, a very interesting thread. I enjoy Stronghold and use it pretty much as described in Classic Enemies. It's harder to escape from than most people seem to think - unless you're given a "GM fiat" revolving door, such as when I want to use a villain again. It's a tissue paper prison for true "Mega Supers" without the use of "Hot Sleep" but short of a phantom zone projector those are always going to be hard to deal with (as noted above). Hmmm... phantom zone projector.

 

Has anyone mentioned that to the guys at Guantanamo? That might resolve the whole problem.

[OddHat]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

That's definitely realistic. Problem is, with actual superbeings who "push the envelope" point-wise (especially 800+), if you go with the "killed outright" you have to find a way to do it. If they're invulnerable enough, this can present a real problem - oh I can see it being implemented easily enough until you start getting up into that "white knight" defense range. The government just isn't going to drop 10 or 12 nuclear weapons on a condemned prisoner so they can execute him, the environmental and political repercussions are too severe. I can think of similar problems for other high end power sets. It'll work for most supers though.

 

Also, I can see a problem developing for people on the "secret government tribunals" real quick. How long before their identity is routinely revealed by a villainous mentalist? Whoops, Dr. Destroyer knows you ordered the execution of three of his henchmen. Guys, we need a new government tribunal over here... What's that, we have a shortage of volunteers? No problem, you three, you're our new tribunal. What do you mean "not guilty"?

 

The meat of this is that not much can deal with top level Supers except other top level Supers. So you as the GM have decided that Dr.D is going to kill off any tribunal that actually orders a villain executed? Then why should the PCs turn anyone over to human courts? You say that Dr.D will kill them? You've just created a world where Dr.D is already in charge, in which case the bad guys are now his problem.

 

In my own campaigns, I answer this problem by having the goverments of the world be the primary employers of Supers at all levels. Silly power disparities between top Super Villains and top Government Supers are not present; if they do show up, the Villains would win, and it would switch to a type of dystopia game I don't feel like GMing. YMMV, of course.

 

Legitimacy I do not see as any sort of issue. When faced with a real and immediate threat, questions of civil rights go out the door. Part of the reason that the FBI and others are worried about Guantanimo is that the obvious immediacy of the threat is fading; in a world of Super Villains, it never would.

 

As to the official CU, its a weird Bonze hybrid, where Tak and Dr.D are kept in check by GM fiat between bouts of mass murder, and yet governments remain roughly the same. "Realism" need not apply.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

As I run a campaign set in a Super Prison I suppose it is appropriate to comment.

 

I like them, but only write up what you *have* to. Too much rulestuff and you have a hard time getting certain stories running. In essence the better defined the prison the harder it is to escape.

 

OTOH ecomony and the prodigous costs of supermaterials (Adamantium, Vibranium etc; ad naseum) and other control measures could mean that serious attempt to contain powerful entities are futile. Would you support a 5 billion dollar superprison in your City/County/State? Could you afford it?

 

Hawksmoor

[Iuz the Evil]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

The meat of this is that not much can deal with top level Supers except other top level Supers. So you as the GM have decided that Dr.D is going to kill off any tribunal that actually orders a villain executed? Then why should the PCs turn anyone over to human courts? You say that Dr.D will kill them? You've just created a world where Dr.D is already in charge, in which case the bad guys are now his problem.

 

In my own campaigns, I answer this problem by having the goverments of the world be the primary employers of Supers at all levels. Silly power disparities between top Super Villains and top Government Supers are not present; if they do show up, the Villains would win, and it would switch to a type of dystopia game I don't feel like GMing. YMMV, of course.

 

Legitimacy I do not see as any sort of issue. When faced with a real and immediate threat, questions of civil rights go out the door. Part of the reason that the FBI and others are worried about Guantanimo is that the obvious immediacy of the threat is fading; in a world of Super Villains, it never would.

 

As to the official CU, its a weird Bonze hybrid, where Tak and Dr.D are kept in check by GM fiat between bouts of mass murder, and yet governments remain roughly the same. "Realism" need not apply.

 

Actually, it appears that we are by and large in agreement based on what you just stated. ("Tak and Dr. D are kept in check by GM fiat" and also "not much can deal with top level Supers except other top level Supers"). Where we appear to disagree is whether the government would be able to effectively employ said superhumans in sufficient numbers to contain the menace, which would depend on the campaign tone entirely. Can the government detect superhumans? How many are even willing to cooperate? How do the powers that be initially react to the super-entities and what long ranging impact does this have? It's all variable based on the campaign setting at that point.

 

Additionally, despite the knee jerk reactions which cause people to forget about Legitimacy in the face of threats, it NEVER goes out the window. When governments forget about this, they play into the hands of their opponents. The FBI was griping about how the suspects weren't being read Miranda rights etc from the very beginning, because they are oriented to consider Legal challenges and the like. The CIA and Pentagon don't care about those issues, as they view this as a military-style conflict. Unfortunately the situation is more complex than either view, and therefore neither is implicitly correct. Sooner or later, someone will get their day in court, there are several historical precedents which appear germaine. How these issues were handled will then be extremely relevant. I fully expect that the same would apply for superhumans, either in the short or long term.

 

Then again, your campaign, your rules. I personally would find the scenario you propose distasteful, where top end supers are government enforcers, not unrealistic necessarily however.

[OddHat]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

Additionally' date=' despite the knee jerk reactions which cause people to forget about Legitimacy in the face of threats, it NEVER goes out the window. When governments forget about this, they play into the hands of their opponents. The FBI was griping about how the suspects weren't being read Miranda rights etc from the very beginning, because they are oriented to consider Legal challenges and the like. The CIA and Pentagon don't care about those issues, as they view this as a military-style conflict. Unfortunately the situation is more complex than either view, and therefore neither is implicitly correct. Sooner or later, someone will get their day in court, there are several historical precedents which appear germaine. How these issues were handled will then be extremely relevant. I fully expect that the same would apply for superhumans, either in the short or long term.[/quote']

 

Campaign tone aside, survival comes first. No polity is going to enforce a set of laws that will clearly result in their own extermination. Almost by definition, human threats are containable. All you have to do to (mostly) neuter an Osama is to actually catch him, and to keep him out of contact with his followers. He may become a martyr and serve as a ralying point, but the man himself can't directly kill thousands by pointing his hands. A Super Villain can. I can't see any human coming forward to speak for their rights after the first downtown rampage kills thousands.

 

With containable villains, costumed humans and less powerful Supers, I agree that there is a chance that enough humans might sympathise to make a difference.

 

Then again, your campaign, your rules. I personally would find the scenario you propose distasteful, where top end supers are government enforcers, not unrealistic necessarily however.

 

I can't see how you could have Super Villains overwhelmingly more powerful than the best the government has and still have a government at all; at best you'd have a barely stable state where corrupt villain appointed officials stole what they could before another group of thugs drove them off. My own answer to that problem was to assume that governments would have to recruit and train a many metahumans as they possibly could, and to concede that some of these metahumans would have great influence in governmental circles themelves. However, that's just my take. If there's a storyline that makes more sense to you, well, your campaign, your rules as well.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

Remember that Hot Sleep prisons need less constrictive restraints - when you want to interrogate the villain, you need a way to restrain them even while they're conscious. It may not be cost effective (having 20 UNTIL Agents sitting around while they're conscious), but it should work just as well as the cheaper, unconscious method.

[Mike W]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

To me, superprisons are more plot devices. They are places where supervillains go away for a while to remove them from the game. When I need them, I just stage a breakout or, in some cases, have the charges dropped because evidence has mysteriously disappeared. It's a comic book staple and my players don't really care, so long as I don't over do it. I might have to run one actual adventure at Stronghold or some place similar in an entire campaign. So writing up before that isn't worth it IMO.

[Iuz the Evil]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

I can't see how you could have Super Villains overwhelmingly more powerful than the best the government has and still have a government at all; at best you'd have a barely stable state where corrupt villain appointed officials stole what they could before another group of thugs drove them off. My own answer to that problem was to assume that governments would have to recruit and train a many metahumans as they possibly could' date=' and to concede that some of these metahumans would have great influence in governmental circle themelves. However, that's just my take. If there's a storyline that makes more sense to you, well, your campaign, your rules as well. [/quote']

 

I think the difference here is how we are defining "supervillain". I'm pretty much of a mindset that government sanction does not a superhero make in and of itself. Lately I'd be more inclined to go with the opposite, 'cause I'm in a "Lex Luthor in the White House" mindset.

 

Dark times my friend, dark times... obviously you have the reverse polarity on the issue, and that's a beautiful thing. But I'm not going to run a campaign based on that... heck someone recently posted their "Machiavellian evil murderers" were Bill & Hillary Clinton during the '90s. It should hardly be surprising that political mirrorverses spring up based on GM (and player) viewpoints.

 

In fact, even when I'm more approving of a given administration, I tend to prefer independent superhumans. I like the Superman types, who are motivated by concern for the "little guy" and are looking out for the human race as opposed to a single country ("Truth, Justice, and Hope" vs. "Truth, Justice, and the American Way"), I'm not as big a fan of the Authority types with ultra-violence as their primary mode of communication, but I can get where they come from easily enough. Superpatriots make me uneasy - that's probably why I flinch at the "government sanctioned supers" more than any other reason.

 

Now in regard to Superprisons, which was the original thread and one I found very interesting...

 

I continue to see Stronghold as one of the better write-ups I've seen (that'd be the 4th Ed. version in Classic Enemies). A couple waves of robots are pretty brutal, and some of those cells can hold anyone under 450 points pretty easily once they're custom fitted. Breaking out isn't a cake-walk, and if you had "panic buttons" to alert major hero teams (like the ones with mega-scale teleportation or whatever so they could respond quickly enough), it becomes a whole 'nother problem (unless of course the villain can mega-scale "get the hell out of dodge", it's all relative).

 

Still a good thread, wish I could give Wanderer rep but I still gotta "spread some around".

[OddHat]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

I think the difference here is how we are defining "supervillain". I'm pretty much of a mindset that government sanction does not a superhero make in and of itself. Lately I'd be more inclined to go with the opposite, 'cause I'm in a "Lex Luthor in the White House" mindset.

 

Dark times my friend, dark times... obviously you have the reverse polarity on the issue, and that's a beautiful thing. But I'm not going to run a campaign based on that... heck someone recently posted their "Machiavellian evil murderers" were Bill & Hillary Clinton during the '90s. It should hardly be surprising that political mirrorverses spring up based on GM (and player) viewpoints.

 

In fact, even when I'm more approving of a given administration, I tend to prefer independent superhumans. I like the Superman types, who are motivated by concern for the "little guy" and are looking out for the human race as opposed to a single country ("Truth, Justice, and Hope" vs. "Truth, Justice, and the American Way"), I'm not as big a fan of the Authority types with ultra-violence as their primary mode of communication, but I can get where they come from easily enough. Superpatriots make me uneasy - that's probably why I flinch at the "government sanctioned supers" more than any other reason.

 

It all depends on where you come from, and a difference of opinion is alright by me.

 

Personally, I've lived in and worked in countries with weak or non-existant governmental institutions, corrupt officials who conider a "polite" bribe part of doing business, cops so compromised and poorly armed that paying extortion to thugs was the only way to do business ... I'm amazed at how pro strong government I've become. From mypoint of view, the worst administration in a democracy with strong institutions is better than anything possible in a country where institutions are weak. However, always, it is your game.

 

Now in regard to Superprisons, which was the original thread and one I found very interesting...

 

I continue to see Stronghold as one of the better write-ups I've seen (that'd be the 4th Ed. version in Classic Enemies). A couple waves of robots are pretty brutal, and some of those cells can hold anyone under 450 points pretty easily once they're custom fitted. Breaking out isn't a cake-walk, and if you had "panic buttons" to alert major hero teams (like the ones with mega-scale teleportation or whatever so they could respond quickly enough), it becomes a whole 'nother problem (unless of course the villain can mega-scale "get the hell out of dodge", it's all relative).

 

Still a good thread, wish I could give Wanderer rep but I still gotta "spread some around".

 

For a four color prison, Stronghold wasn't bad. It held together well enough to serve as it needed to in the plot without inulting the player or GM, and there were always bits of tech or NPCs in each version of Stronghold that were worth re-using. To get something very like it from a mechanics point of view in 5th, I'd use VIPER robots and equipment (the Viper book is a great value), plus a simple modular cell design heavy on power dampers.

 

Something like this works well enough:

Power Suppressor: Suppress All Powers of One Special Effect 1d6, Penetrating (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Area Of Effect (3" Radius; +1), Continuous (+1), Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages; Only for All Powers of Given Special Effect; +1 3/4) (31 Active Points); IIF Bulky Fragile (-1)

 

Drop one or two in each cell, set to the SFX of the inmate, leave him getting blasted for an hour or so (Suppress is cumulative) and you can talk to him face to face with no fear of him being able to use his powers. Take him out of the cell or sabotage the device and his powers pop back. In a four color world, you can now put Firewing in a cell, watch him lose his Fire powers, talk to him, and then when it's time for the breakout have him ready to go.

 

I wouldn't do this more than once though, even in a four color game.

[David Blue]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

I set up a super-prison in my modern Pulp/dark-supers game set in Sydney, and I got good value out of it, first in having a place that could and did hold villains, and then with one (1) big break-in scenario.

 

The physical arrangements were elaborate and well-thought-out but mostly mundane. (No wonder materials were available at any sane cost.) Bank vault security was going to be enough for almost everybody without desolidification or teleportation, and super vigilantes (who had sent the majority of supers to the slammer) hadn't happened to have handed anyone like that in alive. A couple of the prisoners were restrained not by the immediate physical barriers but by desire to serve their time and become members of society again (they had jobs that would use their super-powers to make money legitimately waiting for them outside), and a couple of others were restrained again not by the immediate barriers but by a wise fear of the consequence (singular) of trying to break out. One of the prisoners was also restrained, in effect (though the authorities did not know this) only by concern for a loved one in another cell.

 

One of the features of the prison was a panic mode. In the event of a break-in, or general or spectacular breakout, all the prisoners in the super wing would be lethally gassed or otherwise killed very, very dead. There had never been a break-out since this system was instituted. Hero vigilantes had come to rely on this.

 

This gave rise to some problems.

 

How do you know what will cetainly kill a given superhuman till you try it? (In this low powered game, it was very easy to tell what would kill most-if-not-all supers.)

 

I didn't have high-powered invulnerable characters, but I did have some prisoners with sneaky and hitherto un-revealed powers. They were ... displeased when they handed themselves in or were arrested for relatively minor crimes, expecting decent treatment, then had the rules changed on them, then years later were in effect "executed" by the state for somebody else's actions, while having remained model prisoners themselves. There's not a whole lot of incentive to play nice after that happens, is there?

 

The incentive for prisoners and their friends to sabotage the panic-kill system as it applied to them was of course maximal. You want to do it as subtly as possible, so that nothing but an actual attempt to kill would reveal the difference. Most prisoners couldn't achieve anything like that. One could.

 

With this system, a break-in is (or seems to be) a great way for super-criminals on the loose to kill their potential rivals or old enemies inside, particularly those near release. (Of course, if you can arrange a really good break-in, you will want to rescue and release your own allies and lackeys at the same time.)

 

Heroes who object to state-assisted mass slaughter (and may have friends of their own inside, as with Nite-Owl and Rorsharch) may want to consider responding to a break-in, if they get to it in time (which would require a start of some kind), by crippling the prison's panic system and thus in effect releasing many of the prisoners who are still alive, from serial killers to compulsive car thieves. It's your moral choice, hero!

 

There's huge value in putting together a villain team that can crack a super-prison. That may not be an issue in a campaign with effectively unlimited supers of all types, but it was an issue in my game. If only Magnetic Woman can do what it takes to get the right people out and let the prison's panic mode kill everyone else, then she has to be part of your team, even if she would never want to work with you because she has a code against killing and the rest of you are cold-blooded killers. I had a break-in-team with wildly divergent attitudes and agendas, which the heroes were able to exploit.

[David Blue]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

After thought:

 

If you like the kind of death-trap prison I built for my super-powered dark Pulps game, you might want to make all the modes of execution as visual and nasty as possible consonant with cost-efficiency and common sense, and have a big monitor wall in the control room, so that electricity-controlling man or your appropriate hero can see exactly what's happening to dozens of prisoners by way of electrocution, flooding napalm, exploding slave collars, automated gunfire or other continuous killing attacks, or what's about to happen as soon as prisoners stop holding their breaths against the clouds of gas surrounding them and so on. Lots of silent screaming and clawing at walls. The prisoners should be aware of the locations of the monitors too. Let's not make "death" an invisible abstraction. Your choice, hero - so let's make it an informed choice. That's what I did.

 

"Thou shalt not kill; but need not strive officiously to keep alive?"

 

Also, if the heroes somehow see the prison records, there should be plans for the imprisonment and panic-mode execution of all known supers in the city, especially the heroes - just in case they get caught if they are vigilantes, or in case they go bad, or in case somebody changes a law or a less sympathetic government gets in and starts enforcing old laws in a different spirit, or whatever. This will let them know what the prison system thinks their vulnerabilities or susceptibilities might be.

[Lightray]

Since my own campaign is essentially progressing from the first (public) appearance of superhumans, identifying the need for a Super-Prison actually became one of the campaign plot points.

 

It's easier to design your Super-Prison when you do it a little bit at a time. The first captured prisoners had relatively straightforward powers - cells with higher DEF and some additional security precautions were all that were needed.

 

There were some upgrades when the Elementals were captured - because a few of them (Mercury, Chlorine) were liquid or gaseous beings.

 

Then I ran the first prison-break scenario. I've intentionally taken out the revolving door on the Super-Prison, because of how much we used to ridicule Stronghold for the same thing back in the day in our old campaign. But after the Elementals' prison-break* the PCs went into upgrading the Super-Prison with a vengeance. The PCs able to adapt their powers/magic/technology to improve the Super-Prison did so. They revamped the security, in particular removing the flaws in the system the Elementals had exploited.

 

The Super-Prison keeps coming up as a plot-point. The latest crisis was when they captured the first mentalist. After his lawyer found out they'd basically inflicted sensory deprivation on Mindshadow, the PCs started developing some anti-psi tech to install.

 

Which I will, of course, use against the PCs eventually.

 

I'm not sure how I'd go about designing a Super-Prison for a campaign where supervillains have existed for some time. Probably, I would give high DEF, good security, and then build cells on a case-by-case basis. It'd be too expensive to design every cell to hold Firewing, but one you've got Firewing in custody you'll need something to keep him there.

 

I should also note that by removing the revolving-door problem, my PCs are much less inclined to Draconian measures upon capturing supervillains. Even though they've been annoyed when certain supervillains continue to plague them from jail. They've actually "exiled" one particularly annoying teleporter - they sent him to another dimension, where he's not actually under any punishment, but they didn't ask permission nor tell the government what they were doing. I still haven't decided if that little bit of vigilantism is going to bite them in the butt eventually...

 

 

* Actually, a team of new Elementals ended up half imprisoned after freeing half their imprisoned compatriots, for no net change!

[Wanderer]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

Some further thoughts on methods for neutralizing criminal supers: it is plain that the crux of the issue lies with the high-end (800+) supers, since it may be assumed that sufficiently advanced technology should be avialable to contain in prison (and/or allow execution of) most typical low-end or standard superhumans.

 

For the latter, Availability of super-tech and advanced insight on the origin(s) of superpowers would probably allow less brutal methods: power negators, customized prison cells, dimensional exile, and psychic restructuring. Lacking these, they would probably rely on more "aboslute systems": animated suspension (and its realistic equivalent, drug-induced heavy sedation), matrix-like virtual wiretapping, and death sentencing.

 

What would be actually used lies on the balance between various factors: budgetary considerations, practicality, the possibility to keep a precious resource like superhumans around for possible re-use, political considerations, reactions of the superpowered community at large, and least of all, civil/human rights. budetary considerations might mean customized prisons structures would be limited in use, except as a temporary solutions. Where avialable, dimensional exile, power negators, sedation, might or might not be less expensive and more practical, depending on SFX. Death might be cheap for low-power supers, definitely less so for more powerful ones (where you would need military stuff). Turning reformed or captive criminal supers to community service, military or intelligence missions would be an incredibly precious resource, so it would be a mighty incentive not to use solutions like death or lobotomy. Similarly, using too harsh solutions (such as death for all criminal supers) would be heavily discouraged from the significant risk of alienating the majority of supers from the government and normals (no society might survive turning the majority of the super population hostile to it). OTOH, there would be the usual "tough on crime" political issues. As regards civil rights issues, I'd say that the first spell of heavy loss of life from supervillain ramapges would bring emergency legislations that would severely restrict them.

 

Keeping all factors in consideration, I'd say that psychic restructuring (aka brainwashing), followed by parole compulsory community service or enrollment in the armed forces, would be the optimal solution. In order, dimensional exile, then incarceration and neutralizing with personal power negators (or power-suppressing drugs), or animated suspension, artificial coma, matrix-like virtual prison. In the most extreme (or politically-laden) cases, death.

 

For the cosmic-power ones, due to the extreme difficulty of building a structure ensuring effective incarceration, even with super-tech, and of carrying a death sentence (nuclear weapons or their conventional near-equivalent, such as FAE, are extremely expensive and messy), the best options would be again, dimensional exile, brainwashing, animated suspension, or virtual prison. Incapacitang the mind or exile. Death, besides quite difficult (except for recruiting other cosmic supers as executioners, which would have its rather significant difficulties: while it is possible that some might volunteer for the most extreme cases, such as mass murderers, it is quite probable that most would find quite disagreeable to be executioners of their fellows for less blatant crimes). Besides, being too large with death sentences for powerful supers has a serious side effect: you turn supers that might not be antisocial to extreme levels into implacable and absolute, no-holds-barred, nothing-to-lose, enemies of society. And the more powerful the super, the more likely it gets he will manage to escape incarceration, overturn conditioning, or survive execution. Turning even an handful of powerful supers from say "ethical" criminals to hardened killers and terrorists would be a huge mistake.

 

Therefore, I think that instead of super-tech prisons, the most likely and effective means for dealing with criminal supers (and this gets the more likely the more powerful the super in question is) would be: "Clockwork Orange"-like psychological brainwashing and recycling into community service or the military, "Phantom Zone"-like dimensional exile, (probably only effective for standard supers, not cosmic ones, except where the tech in question is really effective) power negator tech or drug-induced power suppression, keeping the super inconscious by whatever means: "russian sleep"-like induced coma, drugging into heavy sedation, Matrix-like imprsinment of consciousness into virtual reality, animated suspension with super-tech.

[Funksaw]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

Hmm.

 

"The Island" was a pretty effective way to hold at least one superspy...

 

I'm wondering what would happen if a supervillian escaped - and was followed endlessly by one of the rovers... I mean, even the most powerful supervillian has to sleep eventually. Unless they have life-support sleep... but... you get what I mean.

[MitchellS]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

This book will be out soon for M&M and is the main reason I didn't want to see DoJ wasting time on Stronghold [in-part due to being a year behind Lockdown]. I'm sure it will be able to give you many ideas on how to handle a super-prison. Then you just need to do some converting.

 

Lockdown is a sourcebook on the Buckner Ridge Superhuman Penitentiary, commonly known as "Lockdown," a private contract prison for super-powered criminals. It gives you everything you need to place Lockdown in your campaign and customize it to suit.

 

Chapter One of the book is a history of the prison system in the United States and the challenges faced by modern prisons, including overcrowding, gangs, executions, bribery, and an increasing trend towards privatization, which leads to the world's first privately-run prison for the most dangerous criminals in the world, those with super-powers.

 

Chapter Two looks at Lockdown in detail: the layout and structure of the prison, classification of prisoners (based on their powers), security systems (and the ways around them), the layout of the cell blocks, and the various systems used to restrain prisoners' powers.

 

Chapter Three is all about life behind bars. What is it like to be a prisoner in Lockdown? This chapter describes a prisoner's daily routine, the rules they must follow, and the realities of prison life. It also describes the administration and staff of the prison.

 

Chapter Four looks at the inhabitants of Lockdown, both inmates and the people who guard them. It describes the powered members of the Special Operations Unit, charged with keeping prisoners in line. It also looks at numerous inmates, from hardened criminals like Skab to masterminds like Duke Nefarious, fallen heroes like the Golden Marvel, criminals on the road to reform like the Hexorcist, and cases like Blackcroft and the Wight Bishop, where even Lockdown may not be enough to contain them and the powers they wield. This chapter also includes an overview of some villains from Freedom City and Crooks! and how you can put them in Lockdown.

 

Chapter Five is all about gamemastering Lockdown, from using the prison as a place for the heroes to put captured criminals to the centerpiece of a campaign where the players take the roles of imprisoned super-villains or heroes working under-cover to find out more about the prison. This chapter is filled with campaign and adventure ideas for Lockdown and incorporating it into your campaign.

 

Chapter Six contains the real secret of Lockdown, which could literally blow the prison wide open if and when it's uncovered. What is it? Just wait and see...

 

Chapter Seven looks at the town of Buckner Ridge, located in the mountains close to the prison. The construction and opening of Lockdown saved the former mining-town's economy. Its continued operation provides jobs and income, but is it worth the price of having the world's most dangerous convicts in your backyard? Buckner Ridge is detailed as a location for off-duty prison officials, as well as the first place that will be in danger is something should go wrong in the prison.

 

We'll have more previews of Lockdown as things progress. For now, villains beware! There's a new prison open for business, and it's not a place you want to visit.

[sinanju]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

If I were running a Champions game, I expect that my approach to imprisoning supervillains would be exile.

 

Captured supervillains are marched in immense shackles into a facility that very strongly resembles Stargate Command, escorted under heavy guard. The stargate (or dimensional portal or whatever) is activated and the prisoner goes thru, voluntarily or otherwise. Then the gateway is shut down and the prisoner is now either many lightyears away or trapped in some alien dimension somewhere.

 

Where he goes and what he does in exile is not our concern (though ideally we won't be inflicting him on any other hapless civilizations). If he should ever return, he is officially an outlaw, subject to execution by anyone who can carry it off.

 

Hmmm. Plot Seed: Powerful supervillains start appearing in the campaign world. How? They're prisoners being dumped into a supposedly uninhabited alternate dimension/world by the citizens of another culture dealing with the supervillain prison problem.

[OddHat]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

If I were running a Champions game, I expect that my approach to imprisoning supervillains would be exile.

 

Captured supervillains are marched in immense shackles into a facility that very strongly resembles Stargate Command, escorted under heavy guard. The stargate (or dimensional portal or whatever) is activated and the prisoner goes thru, voluntarily or otherwise. Then the gateway is shut down and the prisoner is now either many lightyears away or trapped in some alien dimension somewhere.

 

Where he goes and what he does in exile is not our concern (though ideally we won't be inflicting him on any other hapless civilizations). If he should ever return, he is officially an outlaw, subject to execution by anyone who can carry it off.

 

Hmmm. Plot Seed: Powerful supervillains start appearing in the campaign world. How? They're prisoners being dumped into a supposedly uninhabited alternate dimension/world by the citizens of another culture dealing with the supervillain prison problem.

 

I like the plot seed.

[Supreme]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

Ridiculously high defenses and heavily armed guards can't stop most shape-shifters or mentalists. The only super-prison I ever did was a converted missile silo. Individual cells could be prepped to block various powers that were good for escaping. The big, nasty shape-shifter, Anarchy (think Odo's powers with the Joker's insanity) was kept in an air-tight cell. Cells also had various "kill-switches" meaning that as soon as something went south, someone would hit a switch and the cell would be flood with nerve-toxins or claymores would be set off or whatever was sufficient to instantly kill the villain. None of my villains were ever powerful enough to totally unkillable by some existing ordnance.

[Lightray]

If I were running a Champions game' date=' I expect that my approach to imprisoning supervillains would be exile.[/quote']

Well, I'm the one running the game, but it was the players who tried that one.

 

They'd finally gotten their hands on Warp, the teleporter who'd been remotely teleporting out all of PSI before the heroes could get their hands on them. So, since they had no way to hold him, they decided to take the law into their own hands - and sent him into exile in another dimension.

 

It was a relatively innocuous exile, since the dimension is essentially populated by superhero and supervillain refugees from yet another dimension (long story). Warp was essentially free to do as he wanted there; no punishment or imprisonment, only exile.

 

And yet, the players still seem to think this won't come back to bite them in the hiney...

[lemming]

Re: Setting up super-prisons

 

And yet' date=' the players still seem to think this won't come back to bite them in the hiney...[/quote']

All things come back to bite.