First Round TKO

[Super Squirrel]

Any advice both for the Player and the GM side for dealing with a player being taken out very early in combat.

 

Here is a good, example situation. We have been having a very prolonged battle in our campaign. In the first session my character was taken out about fifteen minute into it by an attack that I was vulnerable to. I was out until tommorrow. Then next game session we played for 15 minutes before it was called due to ice. Then on the next game session my newly introduced character dropped his invisibility and was struck unconcsious by a "surprise" attack. It was about 45 minutes into that game.

 

As a GM I have been occasionally pulling punches because knocking out a player that early into it sucks.

 

So does anyone have any advice on what to do in a situation where the player's character is knocked out unnaturally early in the game session?

[Mike W]

Re: First Round TKO

 

From the sounds of things this guy is either very unlucky or is seriously lacking defenses. I can't remember ever knocking out a the same character that quickly 3 or 4 fights in a row like that.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: First Round TKO

 

Well this is two SEPERATE characters. One got hit by her vulnerability. The other one got hit by a 4d6 RKA.

[Trebuchet]

Re: First Round TKO

 

Although the situation has never come up in my current campaign, in the past I've had unconscious PC's players run villains, NPCs or agents for me. You can bribe them to play aggressively against their fellow players by offering a bonus XP.

 

If nothing else, assign them to keep track of the Phase and Dex ranks during the combat.

[Mike W]

Re: First Round TKO

 

Ah, well, you might consider "fudging" the REC rules a little to let them get up about midway through. Or just rule that they automatically get their post 12, regardless of the chart and then when their first regular action comes up, you can apply the normal rules. This should mean that any character not put to -20 should be able to get back in the fight before it's over.

[TheEmerged]

Re: First Round TKO

 

Okay, from the top

 

#1> Exam the campaign standards of your campaign, in particular the area of minimum defenses. If you're throwing around 12DC attacks (average result 42 STUN) and characters are running around with less than 15-20 DEF and/or less than 30 STUN, one-hit KOs are going to happen. Yes, it's annoying and a little anal but if you want people still standing after a few blows they need to be designed to still be standing after a few blows

 

#2> Seriously reconsider vulnerabilities. Yes, they're very genre-correct for campaigns with a Golden or Silver Age feel. However in my experience PC's simply should not take more than a x1 1/2 vulnerability unless said vulnerability is fairly uncommon. Otherwise they're going to get hosed, and their options are changing their mind or learning to live with it.

 

#3> Reexamine how much REC the character buys. In my experience many players under-purchase REC, especially if they're used to battles that end in under a Turn. Of course this only matters if they don't get stunned into "recover whenever the GM feels like it" territory...

 

#3a> It's not appropriate for all genres, but in some cases it might be appropriate to "pro-rate" the post-12 recovery. Again, this only matters etc etc...

 

#4> Consider either going with an automatic xSTUN mod (like x3 for powers and x2 for "real" weapons), or using the HitLocation chart. I've used the later for my campaigns almost from the beginning and I have only a portion of the Stun Lotto problems many GM's complain about.

 

#5> When in doubt, fudge like heck. I can't recommend strongly enough that you get in the habit of making all your dice rolls as GM behind a screen. Some players won't like it, you'll have to find your own solution to that. One example wouble be to let only enough STUN through to CON-stun

[Barton]

Re: First Round TKO

 

My GM does something I love (and use in my game). When you are -20 and -30 stun you can still get a REC roll if you make a CON roll (with a -1 penality for every 10 STUN you are under 0). Helps get players back in play. I love it as a house rule!

 

I also would advise the GM to allow a healing 1/day focus based power that only works when at -10 STUN or lower power. This would help get characters back in play and would not be too expensive.

[zornwil]

Re: First Round TKO

 

Although the situation has never come up in my current campaign, in the past I've had unconscious PC's players run villains, NPCs or agents for me. You can bribe them to play aggressively against their fellow players by offering a bonus XP.

 

If nothing else, assign them to keep track of the Phase and Dex ranks during the combat.

As noted in my rep to you, this is an excellent idea, never thought about it, will have to think of good ways to hand that opportunity over. My group is certainly mature enough to do it well, the only stumbling block is in some combats the villains are not really known to them well enough to be played. Then again, sometimes I have villains I don't have a good/well-defined personality for (particularly mercenary hires) and so they can just inject what they want into them. Nice idea!

[Doppler]

Re: First Round TKO

 

Hot oral is always nice.

[Hermit]

Re: First Round TKO

 

At times, particularly when it is very appropriate for dramatic purposes, I've allowed other PCs helping the character to recover to work even better than in the official book. Instead of simply going up a level in recovery rate, I sometimes allow an automatic REC right then and there... especially if the PC trying to wake the KOed guy out has paramedics.

 

One good example of when this worked as it should was when only one PC was up after a HELLUVA a battle, and the villain was defeated, but the doomsday clock was still ticking and he had no real mechanical/science skills. He began to shake the gadgeteer of the group (Who wouldn't have normally revived in time) "Come on, come on... wake up! I need you to handle this? What am I saying? EVERYONE Needs you to handle this...puppies, kids... that cute redhead you're hoping to score with..C'mon!" Shake shake

 

At least that's how I recall it, it was some time ago for that particular situation, but it turned out dramaticly enough.

 

Also, it encourages Players to have their characters watch each others backs even more, because the guy you help recover today, maybe the one who helps YOU out of the coma next weekend

[lemming]

Re: First Round TKO

 

This was one reason we went to the x3 mod for Killing attacks. Too many times of an opening round in combat taking out a PC. Though that's what the comics were for...

[Northstar]

Re: First Round TKO

 

This was one reason we went to the x3 mod for Killing attacks. Too many times of an opening round in combat taking out a PC. Though that's what the comics were for...

 

I lean towards the x3 rule as well. To be honest, I don't back off on modifying dice rolls occasionaly. While I realize the dice serve to emulate the randomness and variability of RL situations, these games are based on comics, not RL. Story integrity always outranks dice throws to me.

[zornwil]

Re: First Round TKO

 

As a more general note, I don't have an intrinsic issue with quick KOs happening. The problem, to me, is where somebody's character gets screwed "too" often. To some degree, sudden early KOs add drama and interest along with (to me anyway) reality IF they aren't happening too much. But if one character gets pounded too often, I usually explore "fixing" the character rather than the combat rules/process. That's a more subjective thing of course and according to what a GM and the players like.

 

PS - I would also add that I don't mind if some character who draws fire goes down earlier if the "schtick" is there's a healer to bring him up before long. Of course this also depends on the players.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: First Round TKO

 

Not something to use too often, but can be fun, is to quickly ret-con in an impostor.

 

"Ooo...that blast flings Hawkeye back against the wall, where he slumps down unconscious. As his form stills, it morphs into the distinctive green-skin and purple suit of a Skrull warrior!"

 

And a few phases later the real Hawkeye shows up, just in the nick of time.

 

Robot doubles, etc. of course can also be used. If it's a villain you need replaced, easy enough. If it's a PC, figure out briefly when the switch could have been made. Maybe even offer an XP for the best explanation.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: First Round TKO

 

Another option for dealing with this problem as a GM is to use a pro-rated variation of the "Hero points" idea that has been discussed in an earlier thread. Very similar to the other forms of GM fudge, but perhaps a bit more "fair" to the characters who didn't get layed out. I'm thinking something like giving a free recovery at the expence of 1 "pip" worth of unluck that will come back to haunt the player later in the same session (or game). One or two such recoveries should bump the character to a point where they can eventually get back to their feet, if not exactly back in full combat condition.

And of course, you can always try and structure your fights so that they aren't all knock down drag out full session affairs... it is possible to have running skirmishs and the like as well, which can decrease the problem some.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: First Round TKO

 

In my campaign, we have an NPC. He has two character sheets, one the full version which I use and the second is a "combat sheet" which an early KO'd player can take over using.

 

It does happen, however, generally spread amongst the group. It was my character a few weeks ago, and very nearly this week (the attack missed, but I think he'd have been gone for the duration - it was the first action by any of the villains).

 

There is some onus on the players here - if you take "2x STUN" vulnerabilities, or defenses that will sometimes not work (whether due to Activation, other limitations, or reliance on, say, high DCV), you'll get one punched on some unlicky occasions

[zornwil]

Re: First Round TKO

 

Another smart idea!

 

PS - posted too quickly.

 

We have some NPCs this could work with, and would work well as now the PCs have raised up in power enough that many have Followers, Summons, or NPCs who might otherwise join in.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: First Round TKO

 

After it happened, we had a discussion with the GM because it happened to two characters in the party. The characters both had upper end defenses. And what we determined is that the problem is the "Wes Factor". I'm not going to get too much into the issue of the "Wes Factor" but the GM knew that these particular villains were built far too powerful. It shouldn't be much of a problem in the future because the GM know realizes he was building villains because of the "Wes Factor".