HELP: Of Thor and Loki

[simplygnome]

I have a Thor like player in a supers game in a non Chapions world of my own design....

 

Thanks to all of you guys, I have a good background and set up for the world and what not, with all the plot and villian groups I need, however, Im missing deep storyline with any god based character.

 

Individually, shes has a decent plotline, but I'm having problems finding the exact origin of gods and dieties in my game. Shes a nature goddess that right now has her power in a gem in a tiara that the "human" character wears to transform. I just really dont know what Im doing about gods in my game in general, and I hadnt really made ANY plot for them, until one player wanted to play one....I have several ideas, but Im wanting to see what you, Herodom, have to say about it....

So basically, Herodom, Im asking: What are various god Origin stories you have seen in comic worlds and/or made up for a comic setting....?

[Blue]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

"The Gods" (at least the Greek ones) in my game are essentially high-powered supers. Due to the era in which they were born and the lack of sophistication and the prevalence of superstition, they were elevated to "God" status by the locals. Each did tend to focus on a particular area, and a a result the normals began to worship them for this trait.

 

I have six greek gods that have basically been around since ancient greece. The reason they are not mega-powerful superheroes by now has to do with the death of one of the muses. When she was killed by a god, the muses went into revolt and the gods could never again learn and grow. Heapheastus is an architect and construction worker, Ares travels around the world appearing in wars and often stirring things up (Currently stationed in Iraq), Aphrodite is in seclusion because after centuries of sentient beings constantly doting on her, chasing her, being obsessed with her, she will not show her face in public, Artemis is a bounty hunter who specializes in criminal supers, Hades owns several goth clubs and lives a hedonistic lifestyle (Since slaying and stealing the sphere of influence controlled by Dionysus), and Calliope (The greek Muse) actually was a superhero under the name "Muse" until her superteam crumbled just before the start of the campaign. After a brief stint under the control of an evil madman, she is in seclusion in Minos, at the heart of the labarynthe.

[CBikle]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

Maybe the god form is the real form and the human form is one she was "cursed" with for some previous transgression ?

[simplygnome]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

Thanks for the ideas so far....Keep them comming...

 

Actually CBikle, I already have a bit of plot fot that. The human form was actually a different person (very Pheonix esk) who worked as a curator at a museum. In an attempted to break in, she accidentially got knocked back into a historical dispay, where she touched the tiara (she happens to be a blood descenant of the original wearer) and then the transformation into the nature goddess (more like goddess of the elements and such) occured for the first time. Thats the partial run down.

 

The problem Im having is just determining WHERE the gods came from, their origins, goals, why they dont appear often, etc....Her plotline is that since shes been "sleeping" for several years, her powers are not as prominent as what a true god would have (300 to say 700-900ish???).

[OddHat]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

1) Ignore the problem until you feel like coming up with an answer.

 

2) Let the player give you an answer.

 

3) Gods are powerful spirits that feed on Human belief, now off in the Astral Planes but able to manifest their power on Earth through worship or artifacts.

 

4) Gods are faint memories of long dead Supers, worshipped by humans who didn't know what they were seeing.

 

5) The gods were aliens.

 

6) Pick something from your favorite fiction.

 

7) The gods were gods. Christianity is a myth.

 

8) The gods were Angels; primitive humans worshipped them instead of G_d.

 

9) The gods were Demons.

 

10) Some combination of the above.

 

In my own default campaign setting, I use a combination of 3 and 4. The gods were Supers in life; after death, ancestor and hero worship (part of almost every ancient culture) allowed some of them to remain active and self aware on the Astral plane, even as it slowly distorted their personalities and memories. Now many of them have vast stored magial power, and rule jointly over pocket worlds carved out of the Astral. They rarely act directly on Earth, as without true worship such activity has too high an Energy cost. However, they sometimes allow humans to call on their powers, or even act as priests and Avatars, in the hope of generating worship and thus prolonging their existence. Most of the Gods have only the faintest memories of their Human lives, instead believing the myths that grew up around them to be factual accounts.

[Mike W]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

Drawing on actual mythology:

 

1. In Norse mythology, when Ragnarok occurs, only a couple of the Norse gods survive(the Aesir) to start over. So...maybe they didn't quite get destroyed. Or maybe the few remaining aesir were not capable of defending Asgard and lost. But since the aesir are virtually true immortals...they could only be contained, not killed(kind of like a genie in a bottle, or in this case, a goddess in a tiara).

 

2. Most mythologies(comic or otherwise) require worshippers for the gods to maintain power or possibly even survive. They could have just lost too many followers and "disappeared".

 

 

3. The planes have realigned or it has somehow become more difficult for immortals to visit the mortal realm(possibly see 2 above for part of the reason). So the deities still exist, but the lines of communication have been broken.

[simplygnome]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

Thanks for the large selection Oddhat

 

*I must spread some rep around before giving it to OddHat again

 

I have had a few ideas of my own, some from that list, some not...Im still kicking everything around in my head. Thanks for more thinking material

 

- now to go back to my habitual pre-game PACING ceremony-

[MitchellS]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

I actually like the HU idea of how gods are formed in the astral plane due to the psychic energy of the worshippers projected into that plane. This easy answer explains why some gods are weaker than others, allowing you to have PC gods in the game without them being 2,000 points.

[simplygnome]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

I actually like the HU idea of how gods are formed in the astral plane due to the psychic energy of the worshippers projected into that plane. This easy answer explains why some gods are weaker than others' date=' allowing you to have PC gods in the game without them being 2,000 points.[/quote']

 

I enjoy that idea too, however my PC god is going to be different anyhow, with a slightly different plot to them...But I like the astral concept...

[Hermit]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

To be fair, the Mystic World had some good ideas on the interaction of Gods and the Ban, and reasons why a god might be 'depowered' so if you have it, I recommend a peek. Of course, I may just like it because it matched things in my own campaign nicely.

 

I try to leave things vague myself for my own campaign. The gods CLAIM they are Gods... period. They call the monotheistic being that has displaced their worship "The Hidden One" and speak of him with great annoyance. They can not, without some finagling, really affect the world any more. They draw strength from worship, so it is hinted that they may not be true gods so much as jungian archetypes in familar form fueled by a universial subconcious. They still plot and manipulate, as they always have, for good or ill in the lives of mortals... and supers intrigue them to the point of fascination.

[JmOz]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

In my world the "gods" are extra dimensional aliens who feed off faith and adoration. As such most gods are considerably depowered. They are still very powerful, and sometimes they find worshipers in the oddest places (The greek Demi-god Hercules is responsible for said TV show, as he was able to be empowered by the fans of it...no he did not star in it)

[simplygnome]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

In my world the "gods" are extra dimensional aliens who feed off faith and adoration. As such most gods are considerably depowered. They are still very powerful' date=' and sometimes they find worshipers in the oddest places (The greek Demi-god Hercules is responsible for said TV show, as he was able to be empowered by the fans of it...no he did not star in it)[/quote']

 

OOHHH...So THATS why my script: Loki - Man of Mystery keeps getting turned down! Makes sense now..

[Lightray]

In my own campaign, gods are the creations of powerful, Archetypical beings who are so profoundly beyond the material realm that they cannot interact with it in any meaningful way -- even though their existence defines the metaphysics of the material realm. So they create gods to communicate with/interact with civilizations.

 

A few thousand years ago the Magi - archimages of my campaign world - realized some gods were assisting their enemies. So the Magi contacted the Archetypical beings on their own, convincing them that the need for their gods was done with. That caused the end of the mythic era, and coincidentally depowered most of the godly pantheons.

 

Currently, some of the godly pantheons are missing or gone, a few are lurking around (afraid of the Magi's notice), and at least some of the Aztec gods followed Quetzalcouatl into the galaxy, where they've essentially become an alien race there.

[simplygnome]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

Thanks all for the ideas and replys....I appreciate the help a LOT!

 

Using an amalgamation on my own ideas and what Ive found on the boards, here's what I've come up with....Enjoy. Im very happy with how it turned out.

The gods are astral spirits, creatures made of thought and idea. They carried immense power in their own astral dimensions and were masters of idea and creation. The plight of power, however, is that it always has a cost. No matter what they created, and no matter how hard they tried, the gods themselves could never feel anything for their creations. From lumps of rock to artistic sculptures, it was all the same to them. Being forces of power rather than actual creatures, they lacked the ability to retain emotion, either good or bad. Every color to them was grey, all food tasteless, and even if they could soar thousands of miles of aether in mere seconds, they could never delight in the wind on their face or the sun at their back. They simply were, and nothing could set them apart....

 

As these beings of the other-realms found the earthly dimension, they began to delight when they saw the green trees, the hot sun, and the variants of life and movement. Those gods that chose to cross over into the mortal realm found that foods all tasted different, pain could make you cry, and laughter could light up a room brighter than any star they could ever create. The cornicopia of intense emotions and feelings caused these entities to flock to earth and claim it as their own, ruling over it as dieties and

 

These new sensations, however, caused the gods themselves to change. With the influx of every emotion, the gods turned from grey, objective creatures to titans of raw unbridled joy, happiness, contentment, and pride. With these also came hate, greed, jealousy and fear. The beings began to take on qualities of the world around them, usually aspecting themselves with the things or concepts that gave them the most pleasure or interest...Many became champions of the mortal races, while others just became gluttons of power.

 

Through the ages, more and more astral beings flocked to this beacon of light. This caused great turmoil, conflict, and strife throughout both mortal and god alike. Alliances were made...and broken. Creatures of near limitless power fought each other for centuries, despite the consequenses it had on the landscape.

 

In one of the last conflicts of the war, an astral hole was torn into the dimensional fabric and slowly, the power of these astral giants were siphoned away, till it took great amounts of effort to affect the physical world. Some of these astral entities were said to have found a way around this, but still the fact reamins that the contact to the gods have almost all been forgotten.

 

When the gods powers began to leave the world, so did the very memories of them. Text began to dissapear, stories were forgotten, and great buildings and relics of their power merely dissapeared....The world of today hardly even remembers their existance.

 

Now, the gods have been stuck back in their astral prisons, once again unable to taste, to feel, or to even cry. Whats worse is that unlike before, now they have had a glimpse of what its like to be human. Many will no longer sit back and stay in their lifeless grey limbo....Many want back, and will do anything they can to accomplish their goals....

[red_eagle123]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

It's funny, I'm in a similar bind. One of my PC's is the unknowing son of a god. He's thinking he's of Norse origin, but I'd really like to pull a fast one on him and make him the son of a god from another pantheon. What he doesn't realize yet is that he's about to be tapped to lead the other dieties into combat.

 

Specifically, in the far past, a 'God war' is forming, with a group of aliens showing up and taking human hosts. The PC has to form the other disparate dieties together to fend off these would-be Gods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Before anyone asks, My players are also in another game based on Stargate SG-1. And yes, that is exactly where I got the idea. They were joking about doing a cross-over. So I decided to give them one. They just don't know it yet.

[simplygnome]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

- bump, just to see if anyone has any comments about my finalized product...!!!

[Wanderer]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

1) Ignore the problem until you feel like coming up with an answer.

 

2) Let the player give you an answer.

 

3) Gods are powerful spirits that feed on Human belief, now off in the Astral Planes but able to manifest their power on Earth through worship or artifacts.

 

4) Gods are faint memories of long dead Supers, worshipped by humans who didn't know what they were seeing.

 

5) The gods were aliens.

 

6) Pick something from your favorite fiction.

 

7) The gods were gods. Christianity is a myth.

 

8) The gods were Angels; primitive humans worshipped them instead of G_d.

 

9) The gods were Demons.

 

10) Some combination of the above.

 

 

Further elaborating 2, 3 & 5: the gods were the first (very powerful) manifestations of whatever origin caused modren superhumans to appear: the first mutants, psis, mages, alien-human hybrids, human subrace with reality alteration powers. They dominated the Earth millennia ago, but went into hiding/hibernation because a) they nearly exterminated themselves in a civil war were few in number and got bored of lording over ignorant, weak mortals and not having any real peers c) had to hide from a racial enemy (demons, aliens, corrupted supers, Things Mankind Should Not Know). Now the appearance of modern superhumans is causing them to stir... Oh, and all religions were myths in the start, distorted and faint cultural reflections of the deeds of the first supers. But the impact of the faith of millions caused powerful spirits to be born with the attributes and the self-image of the mythic gods, and the racial psychic shock of superhumans apprearing is feeding them new power...

 

However, a heartfelt suggestion: whatever explanation you use for introducing religion-based superhuman figures in your setting, keep the playing field leveled among ancient and modern religions: if Apollo and Thor were distorted memories of X, so were Archangels, Saints and Bodhisattvas (depending on the sensibilities of your group, this may or may not also include founders of modern religions like Moses, Jesus and Buddha, or their true nature may be purposefully left vague); if the latter were the real thing, so were ancient gods.

[Ghost who Walks]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

*Bump*

 

Because several of my players are interested in mythology, I made up my own versions of the pantheons and gods. This was primarily to give them a sense of mystery.

 

IMC, magic is a form of misunderstood science and technology.

 

IMC:

~The Greek gods were started by a PC time traveller and a ancient, immortal metahuman. Their high point was the Roman Empire, they have mostly had secret identities since the rise of christianity.

 

~Norse gods are all bricks, every one. Odin is a human who was abducted by aliens milenia ago, and made into a cyborg (the whole one-eyed and wisdom thing. Ragnarok still hasn't come, but the signs point to it happening soon.

 

~Persian gods made alliances with powerful extradimensional alien forces, recieving power in return for servitude.

 

~Indian gods: India has a Stargate like device in it, which various aliens have come through and been worshipped as gods. Mixed in, are a number of spell casters and metahumans

 

~Aztec gods: Descendents of a group of aliens, fallen into barbarism. Most were killed by other gods or christian types.

 

~Babylonian gods: A alien peacekeeper/Peace Corps type formed a grouping of superpowered people to battle an invading alien army 8,000 years ago.

 

~Egyptian Gods: Secretly based upon the Thundercats cartoon, a group of aliens and locals banding together to fight "evil".

 

The key to a godly character is to have something to ground them in the "real world". Give them a job, parents, a history.

 

If psionics exist, they can provide a method for "worshippers" to give a god power, otherwise it may be a protection like system.

 

Most of the gods went underground in my campaign because the time traveller who started the Greek pantheon warned them to do so (he has been shaping history for his own purposes). They have appeared many times in history, using aliases. Most of those who wouldn't were jailed in extradimensional prisons, where they occasionally escape.

 

The Sorceror Supreme type is the chief jailor of those prisons, sanctioned by the remaining gods.

 

Christianity/Judaism/Islam remain mysteries as they do in real life.

 

Specifically, Thor and Loki were handled as:

~Thor: A brick who has been punched one to many times, Thor was frozen in ice for the past 1700 years (like Captain America). Reappearing in the modern world, he promptly took over another planet, married the queen, built himself a harem, and now plans to raid nearby worlds. A super brick with a hammer, with a personality out of a Rocky movie.

 

~Loki: Fell unconcious when his by chemical weapons during WWI, and only recently reawoke. Has set himself up on Wall Street as a strockbroker and is quickly gaining financial influence. Spreads rumors about the atrocities Thor does on his planet. The ultimate manipulator, caused major problems for the norse gods in the past, mostly because of his lack of LS: extreme cold. Very friendly with surviving gods of other Pantheons, who generally dislike his somewhat barbaric relatives.

[Steve]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

This post caught my attention because I am currently GMing a solo campaign for a friend, whose character is the last surviving valkyrie and who came to inhabit a human host (sort of like Donald Blake/Thor worked). In my world, the gods currently dwell in the Land of Legends, but they are returning to Earth in dribs and drabs now that the Ban has fallen. It actually fell when the Age of Superhumans began in 1938 (I use roughly Champions Universe history), but not all the gods came back immediately. I have been treating the various pantheons sort of like fantasy superhero and supervillain teams, since they are, in a sense, the first superhumans.

 

Currently, the character is investigating why she is the last surviving Asgardian, since she was held in suspended animation within Yggdrasil a short time before something (or someone) triggered Ragnarok early, and Asgard was destroyed. This is actually her second revival in the modern era, her first time taking place during the Golden Age when the valkyrie's spirit used a different host to manifest on Midgard.

 

Along the path, she has run into old friends like Hercules and Bast, who are old adventuring buddies from back in the day, when they romped around the domains of various pantheons together. The valkyrie character in question is actually the child of some inter-pantheon fraternizing herself, being the child of Thor and Aphrodite. When the thunder god was off a viking ages ago, he wandered south to the realms of Olympus and was seduced by the goddess of love. He brought the girl child back with him to be raised in the halls of Asgard as am adopted daughter of Odin due to Thor not wanting to get his wife upset. So she is a mixture of the physical strength, power and warlike nature of the thunder god, with the passions and beauty of the goddess of love.

 

Personally, I find mythology makes for a wonderful backstory for a character.

[simplygnome]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

Personally' date=' I find mythology makes for a wonderful backstory for a character.[/quote']

 

I'd agree with you there....There are just SOOO many ways you can take them though. I mean, I can deal with nuclear weapons of mass destruction and plots of technologically advanced civilizations attempting to take over the galaxy, but gods can just throw me for a look sometimes =P

[simplygnome]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

GHOST WHO WALKS:

 

This is not the way I'm taking my campaign, but you know, that is VERY well done and thought out. I'm tying all mine together as one background, but that shows a LOT of work on your part, and a very nice feel to it...

[Ghost who Walks]

Re: HELP: Of Thor and Loki

 

This is not the way I'm taking my campaign, but you know, that is VERY well done and thought out. I'm tying all mine together as one background, but that shows a LOT of work on your part, and a very nice feel to it...

No problem, I didn't think it was very compatible with the structure you were doing. Its been developed over the last 10 years, and is mostly based around ideas and concepts that worked with different players.

 

I posted it mostly for the sake of completeness, os that anyone doing searches in the future could find it.

 

The godly campaign plots I have been giving my players actually do tie together, in the form of a Ragnarok/Armageddon like event that is coming in the future. Most ar involved in trying to stop it.

 

Another thought to keep in mind when doing godly types is to give them a purpose. In mythology, most gods/saints/avatars are very goal orientated, there to perform a specific function of purpose.

 

It usually wasn't there to serve worshippers...thats something that comes out of modern religion and fantasy literature.

 

Anyway, good luck!