Herogames: The Sportscar Product

[Storn]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

I have a setting that is Pulp Noir Sci Fi called Grunge World. It sounds kinda like what Neil is purposing in that Flying Cars (but with fins! dammit), Dicks (the private kind) and Dames (okay, they might be androids) etc.

 

But I also would like to suggest a "FantasY--but..." game. Shadowrun is the perfect example... Fantasy races & magic... but it is modern day (or cyberpunk slightly in the future.) Spelljammer is another example. The new Fireborn game is similar to Shadow run.

 

Could there be another "Fantasy--- but" game that could be the new sportscar?

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a Tekken/Street Fighter world that supported that concept. THAT is the key. The world structure makes these duels reasonable. Feng Shui had a world that did that... not that I cared for their world much. ... and the powers that some of those folks use definitely fall into "Fantasy-- but.." But I'm not sure if that has enough legs to appeal to the masses.

 

Maybe a fantasy world that borders on Sci fi... no real magic, but plenty of psionics to fufill the same world. Cities in the sky. FTL through mental teleport, Psi-sword duels on flying cars... etc, etc.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

I've seen this theory pop up a few times now. My only problem with it is that the "print a setting and only those rules/constructs which apply idea is that it harkens back to pre-4th edition reprints of basic game rules. For example' date=' the basic character creation and combat rules would be reprinted in every "sportscar game". Which means that if a prospective gamer were to buy "Necessary Evil, The Horror that ate Sheboygan, and "Minnesota Cooper vs the Legion of the Damned", they would get the same sets of rules 3X over, which if the books were 256 pages or there-bouts would be roughly 1/3 of each book.[/quote']

 

Not necessarily. The point here is that the Character Creation bits would actually be unique to each Game... though based on the same core Mechanics. Necessary Evil would have only the Powers, Skills, Talents etc. expected to be used in that game... while Minnesota Cooper may have some of the same skills and talents, but actually a very limited selection of powers constructs, each already tailored for the setting... because that is what the setting requires. The Sheboygan Horror game may have even less available, as charcters are all supposed to be "survive by the skin of my teeth" characters who will never have enough power to fight the great Shibboleth.

 

In fact, three games that have powers based on Energy Blast (the mechanic) may have three very different power constructs, depending on the genre setting. Chi Fist... for Asian Knights... Heat Vision for Necessary Evil and Pulse Wave for Star Warriors.

 

A behind the scenes look would show that all were based on EB with different advantages and limitations applied... but those construction details are well hidden and separate from the core setting and Game Rules.

 

 

As further example... have any of you heard about the new game Fireborn? A game designed to do one thing, and one thing only... create a world of wild martial arts actions, with a system of combat rules that are designed to specifically generate a the feel of balletic, choreographed action scenes. Unlike Feng Shui and others, where a complete lack of mechanics was done on purpose to make it all "player description"... Fireborn brings the mechanics to the foreground, as they are specifically designed to make you play the game in a specific, dramatic, cinematic, choreographed way.

 

Hero could do Fireborn but the key factor the GM would have to spend a great deal of work on would be trimming away the infinite possibilities to structure what was left in the specific way needed to achieve the desired outcome.

 

IOW... we already have Ninja Hero which talks about all the different ways to run a martial arts game... but now we need a game called Five Fingers of Death! that defines one specific way of running the game, in depth and with a complete world and beautiful, evocative art... type set and layout and page design that evokes wuxia oozing from every paper fiber.

[Storn]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

I like 5 Fingers of death as a title... or "Enter the Hero".

 

Then, when it is amazing, wildly more sucessful than we ever dreamed, its sequel could be "You Killed My Master, Prepare to Die'. Followed by "Revenge of the Hero" and "Legendary SFXs of the Hero".

 

Anyway, just kidding.

 

but seriously, I think 30 variations of EB & HtH attacks could easily be done in a martial arts Sportscar. Just think of Mortal Kombat's Sub Zero and compare that to Chi build up of Ken or Ryu of Street Fighter. And a world of almost super heroes keeps it close to Champions, keeps it flashy for the sportscar and taps that whole Wuxia/anime/Exhalted thang.

 

Then, for those who want to tinker, they can always buy 5 ER or Sidekick and tinker away. Sportscar is a gateway product. I like the overall idea quite a bit.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

That's interesting but let me respond with by saying that over the next few months DoJ will be publishing the Hero System Equipment Guide and the Hero System Combat Handbook. Both of these books will be essentially nothing more than reprints of material in already existing books. Will you purchase one or both of them? How man existing Hero fans do you think will purchase them, if for no other reason than to support the company? I think 95+% of these books will be sold to existing fans. Do you think these reprints will bring in new gamers to the system?

 

The same amount of time that has gone into making these two reprints could have gone into making Champions Sidekick, which has a greater potential to bring in new gamers. I also believe a great many existing fans would buy the book if for no other reason than to see what Champions could look like with slightly flashier presentation. I'll bet you'd even be willing to buy it if it looked good.

 

FWIW I intend to purchase both of the abovementioned "reprints," not because I buy everything HERO (I have to support myself ahead of DoJ ), but because they will concentrate and organize material that is now scattered among several other books, not all of which I own or intend to, which will make them a very useful reference for me in running my own games. I also suspect (although I can't back it up objectively) that they will also appeal to newer HERO gamers. The Combat Handbook should clarify one of the more complex elements of the system, and introduce newcomers to all the options open to them. The Equipment Guide should appeal to the segment of the gaming population that likes and wants lists of prebuilds to choose from... which has proven to be a not-insignificant number.

[Katherine]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

I think you are approaching this with a typical new HERO player mentality. You have seen the light, you appreciate the complexity as an advantage rather than a hindrance and you can't understand why anyone would appreciate hiding all of that crunchy goodness.

 

The main advantage of a HERO 'game' (to use RDU Neil's terminology) is that behind the screen it is still all HERO. If someone likes the game enough to decide that there're bits they want to change or modify, then they'll have the option of getting the Toolkit and fiddling under the bonnet of the sportscar to make it what they want.

 

With the toolkit the options of the players increase as if they'd simply been playing vanilla HERO all along but they have the cool concept of the game to guide them.

 

Doc

 

I can see the advantage of slipping some of the flexibility in threw the back door. Some gamers, maybe the majority are kind of mentally lazy in that respect. It worked for White Wolf and their mechanics aren't nearly as solid as Hero System (IMO).

 

But I think this product shouldn't sweep it completely under the rug if possible. Give hints and peeks behind the curtain. Make the audience curious enough to maybe pick up Sidekick and see what they can do. Maybe the genre and resource guides as well. Don't make the required. That's annoying, but make them interesting. Let the reader know this is more than another point allocation system that used d6s and there's a coherent system behind this great set of mechanics. The numbers aren't arbitrary.

 

If I had brought Champions when I first came into the system and been presented with Champions Universe and a list of premade powers taken the USPD I don't think I would have gotten as much into the system as I have. But of course, that's the problem with these types of discussions. We tend to get tied up in our own perspectives and opinions as reflecting the gamer market as a whole.

[Constantine]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

I can see the advantage of slipping some of the flexibility in threw the back door. Some gamers, maybe the majority are kind of mentally lazy in that respect. It worked for White Wolf and their mechanics aren't nearly as solid as Hero System (IMO).

 

But I think this product shouldn't sweep it completely under the rug if possible. Give hints and peeks behind the curtain. Make the audience curious enough to maybe pick up Sidekick and see what they can do. Maybe the genre and resource guides as well. Don't make the required. That's annoying, but make them interesting. Let the reader know this is more than another point allocation system that used d6s and there's a coherent system behind this great set of mechanics. The numbers aren't arbitrary.

 

If I had brought Champions when I first came into the system and been presented with Champions Universe and a list of premade powers taken the USPD I don't think I would have gotten as much into the system as I have. But of course, that's the problem with these types of discussions. We tend to get tied up in our own perspectives and opinions as reflecting the gamer market as a whole.

 

What, you mean I'm not the entire gaming market?

 

Seriously, though, I know what you mean. I think the way we would need to go would be to have a basic description of the general power (ie Forcefield), then have a genre specific examples (Force Field belt, provides +5 yadda, yadda, yadda).

[Katherine]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

I've seen this theory pop up a few times now. My only problem with it is that the "print a setting and only those rules/constructs which apply idea is that it harkens back to pre-4th edition reprints of basic game rules. For example' date=' the basic character creation and combat rules would be reprinted in every "sportscar game". Which means that if a prospective gamer were to buy "Necessary Evil, The Horror that ate Sheboygan, and "Minnesota Cooper vs the Legion of the Damned", they would get the same sets of rules 3X over, which if the books were 256 pages or there-bouts would be roughly 1/3 of each book.[/quote']

 

Yeah, the Old World of Darkness effect. "I'm paying for the same damn rules again!?" That could be a sticking point.

 

I'll say what about this idea worries me is I don't want to see what I felt was Hero's core idea (A coherent systems for building what I could imagine in any genre), what dragged my group in in the first place, swept aside for a series of pre packaged worlds with all the options statted out for you. I'd like see Hero System popular and respected among gamers, but I'm not sure I'd like to see, for lack of a better term, made generic (once more I guess since apparently the original game was purely Champions). I don't want to see the Toolkit gathering dust while the Sportscars pushed to the front of the store. I know RDU Neil and those that agree with him don't "like" the Toolkit and this idea seems to be very popular on these boards and those people could give less than a damn if another flat out genre book was printed or not, but some of us do like it. I'd like to at least see the sportcars be "easily costumizable" models. You can use the Toolkit if you want, or not. I don't think that would send too many new players screaming into night. I don't think it would wreck the play experience.

 

Well, this is a buiness and I guess majority rules.

[Katherine]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

What, you mean I'm not the entire gaming market?

 

Seriously, though, I know what you mean. I think the way we would need to go would be to have a basic description of the general power (ie Forcefield), then have a genre specific examples (Force Field belt, provides +5 yadda, yadda, yadda).

 

Yeah, that's along the lines of what I was thinking.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

Well' date=' this is a buiness and I guess majority rules.[/quote']

 

Well, technically, whatever the owners of Hero Games decide to do rules.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

I know RDU Neil and those that agree with him don't "like" the Toolkit

 

Now now... don't put words in my mouth.

 

Seriously... I LOVE the toolkit.

 

But it's done. The generic genre books are done.

 

What we don't have is really high class product BUILT with the toolkit.

 

We have the means... but we really haven't seen a end product that knocks it out of the park.

 

We haven't seen the sportscar, yet. This is a thread to talk about creating a truly "finished" product... one that appeals to those who want a finished product... but is still Hero under the hood... so those that want to can change whatever they want in a relatively balanced way.

 

I know what you mean... about keeping the lack of arbitrary rules... the fact that it is customizable... flexible... keeping that at least PART of the game.

 

I'd just say that it needs to be done in a way that doesn't detract from the immersion/WOW factor/genre grab that the game needs. Talking to a friend of mine at lunch, his description of Terran Empire was a perfect example of what NOT to do. He said he was reading it... hoping for inspiration and a cool "universe"... and he kept getting tripped up by the constant "... but you can change it however you like..." comments and the "this is only one way to do it" comments. There was no sense of "this is the world... this is what it is like in the Terran Empire" as that was lost in all the disclaimers about customizing. He was left feeling that it wasn't a game with a world as much as a generic systems product. THAT is what I want to avoid... what I think we HAVE to avoid to create a Sportscar game.

 

Finally... the Sportscar game might be a "flagship" game... or might not. It doesn't have to be... it just has to be a game that makes people say, "Wow... I want to play that!"

 

We know the core is solid. We know Hero as a system stands the test of time. This doesn't need any more nuance and baroque layering. What is needed now is some clear evidence... a solid end product... that proves that the system can create a great game.

 

YMMV, as always.

[Katherine]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

Now now... don't put words in my mouth.

 

Seriously... I LOVE the toolkit.

 

But it's done. The generic genre books are done.

 

What we don't have is really high class product BUILT with the toolkit.

 

We have the means... but we really haven't seen a end product that knocks it out of the park.

 

We haven't seen the sportscar, yet. This is a thread to talk about creating a truly "finished" product... one that appeals to those who want a finished product... but is still Hero under the hood... so those that want to can change whatever they want in a relatively balanced way.

 

I know what you mean... about keeping the lack of arbitrary rules... the fact that it is customizable... flexible... keeping that at least PART of the game.

 

I'd just say that it needs to be done in a way that doesn't detract from the immersion/WOW factor/genre grab that the game needs. Talking to a friend of mine at lunch, his description of Terran Empire was a perfect example of what NOT to do. He said he was reading it... hoping for inspiration and a cool "universe"... and he kept getting tripped up by the constant "... but you can change it however you like..." comments and the "this is only one way to do it" comments. There was no sense of "this is the world... this is what it is like in the Terran Empire" as that was lost in all the disclaimers about customizing. He was left feeling that it wasn't a game with a world as much as a generic systems product. THAT is what I want to avoid... what I think we HAVE to avoid to create a Sportscar game.

 

Finally... the Sportscar game might be a "flagship" game... or might not. It doesn't have to be... it just has to be a game that makes people say, "Wow... I want to play that!"

 

We know the core is solid. We know Hero as a system stands the test of time. This doesn't need any more nuance and baroque layering. What is needed now is some clear evidence... a solid end product... that proves that the system can create a great game.

 

YMMV, as always.

 

The thing is, I've heard many people complain about some products, lets take White Wolf in that they drip with "Oh you can change, but you'd be stupid too." and "This is the way it HAS to be." I don't get what you mean when say commments like "You can do this another way" spoil the "immersion" experience or "Wow!" factor. If a setting blows my socks off, its blows my socks my off regardless of whether they say you can change things or not. I thought Terran Empire was pretty cool for what it was, but Space Opera isn't really my thing. I don't get people who are scared off by options.

 

Thats the problem. There's different people that want different things out of games. You can't just say one thing is going to please us all. We're a finicky contrary lot on the whole. And we ALL think our particular style/preference is the best one and the most popular.

 

I don't like to think that an idea like this, which is good for the line as a whole has to be zero sum game though. But OTOH, its been side you can't please all of them people all of the time.

 

And I don't feel the genre books are done. I'm very excited about Horror Hero and Pulp Hero. But that's probably not what you meant.

[Katherine]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

Well' date=' technically, whatever the owners of Hero Games decide to do rules. [/quote']

 

True, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes to tell the truth. Dealing with gamers can be a bitch.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

I know RDU Neil and those that agree with him don't "like" the Toolkit

 

I'd just like to repeat the don't put words into my mouth. I am a HERO freak. I LOVE the system and I love the complexity but I am painfully aware that I'm in a minority among most of the gamers I know.

 

I want them to understand what HERO has to offer but they don't see beyond the multitude of numbers and speed charts to the underlying beauty of it all. I want to be able to show them a beautiful game that they'd want to play and hopefully bring them into the inner circle once they've decided that they want to go beyond the limits presented in the game.

 

Like Storn said - its a getway product - the sugar coated pill that helps you swallow the difficult parts of the system.

 

 

Doc

[Katherine]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

OK, before we start getting out the torches and pitchforks, let me say I'm sorry if my comment offended anyone. I got the impression that Toolkit wasn't well liked. Apparently, I was wrong. Secondly, I'm not against the idea of gateway product. I think we're just quibbling over implementation.

[atlascott]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

Neil, while I agree that HERO could use a "Sportscar Product," I grossly disagree with you on several points.

 

You write:

"While I'd like to think that Champions could again be the "sportscar" of the line... I don't think so anymore. It was cutting edge in it's inception, and stayed ahead of the pack for over a decade... but these days, the "generic supers" game doesn't really cut the mustard."

 

But name me a single superhero game that IS a substantial rule system that ISN'T universal? HERO is MADE for Champions! It is the best system for running supers, bar none.

 

You write:

"So why not a NON-generic supers game? I was thinking about the maybe-someday to be released product by PEG using the Savage Worlds system."

 

Savage Worlds is a generic system. A vague, imprecise generic system. Which would require alot of addition to get close to being able to handle a superoic game. Any superheroic game based on Savage Worlds would be a generic, kludgy frankenstein.

 

"...it is very, VERY difficult... even for experienced GMs... to make the call on balance issues"

 

Huh? HERO is the easiest game EVER to balance things, because everything is built according to balanced and precisely-defined rules.

 

As to the rest, we agree that gripping genre with only those rules necessary to play in that genre would be a good idea.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

OK' date=' before we start getting out the torches and pitchforks, let me say I'm sorry if my comment offended anyone. I got the impression that Toolkit wasn't well liked. Apparently, I was wrong. Secondly, I'm not against the idea of gateway product. I think we're just quibbling over implementation.[/quote']

 

:)

 

But we LIKE getting the pitchforks out....it gives us something to do other than making sportscars with toolkits.

[Katherine]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

:)

 

But we LIKE getting the pitchforks out....it gives us something to do other than making sportscars with toolkits.

 

Meh, that's nothing. Try making a sportcar with a PITCHFORK!

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

But name me a single superhero game that IS a substantial rule system that ISN'T universal? HERO is MADE for Champions! It is the best system for running supers' date=' bar none.[/quote']

 

I agree with RDU (surprise surprise huh?)

 

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen would be a superhero game but the toolkit doesn't give any guidance on what should be allowed or disallowed in such a game.

 

A good gateway product would guide the players and the GM in providing a structure for the creation of characters that are not only balanced but firmly within the genre strictures of the game.

 

I think that HERO might be challenged in some aspects by Savage Worlds and in many others by Questworlds.

 

Doc

[MitchellS]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

FWIW I intend to purchase both of the abovementioned "reprints' date='" not because I buy everything HERO (I have to support myself ahead of DoJ ), but because they will concentrate and organize material that is now scattered among several other books, not all of which I own or intend to, which will make them a very useful reference for me in running my own games. I also suspect (although I can't back it up objectively) that they will also appeal to newer HERO gamers. The Combat Handbook should clarify one of the more complex elements of the system, and introduce newcomers to all the options open to them. The Equipment Guide should appeal to the segment of the gaming population that likes and wants lists of prebuilds to choose from... which has proven to be a not-insignificant number. [/quote']

How many people who have never played Hero do you think those two books will bring it?

 

And really my comments were more directed toward Blue's statement that he had no desire to repurchase material he already owned. I think a lot of people say they won't busy something they already own but turn around and buy a new copy anyway [like 5E and the FAQ and then buying 5Er].

[RDU Neil]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

I agree with RDU (surprise surprise huh?)

 

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen would be a superhero game but the toolkit doesn't give any guidance on what should be allowed or disallowed in such a game.

 

A good gateway product would guide the players and the GM in providing a structure for the creation of characters that are not only balanced but firmly within the genre strictures of the game.

 

I think that HERO might be challenged in some aspects by Savage Worlds and in many others by Questworlds.

 

Doc

 

 

Yes... exactly. (Welcome to the Doc Democracy/RDU Neil Self-Congragulatory Society! )

 

I wasn't speaking of balance in terms of power effectiveness... but genre balance. What powers and power constructs reinforce the genre... and which ones break the verisimilitude and change the feel of the game. Not every Hero mechanic fits every genre... the toolkit itself expresses this... but figuring out which ones are correct, and which arent'... that is VERY difficult at times.

 

Sorry if my use of the term balance wasn't as clear as it should have been.

[atlascott]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

"And I don't feel the genre books are done. I'm very excited about Horror Hero and Pulp Hero. But that's probably not what you meant."

 

Here's a likely preview of Horror Hero:

 

"The Horror genre encompasses many sub-genres, all of which contain elements of fear, the bizzare, and confronting the unknown. Suspense is a key element to any Horror game...In the Horror genre, the supernatural may play a large part. The supernatural may include ghosts, devils, demons, spirits, and other forces beyond the ken of traditional human knowlege...for a complete listing of approved Horror Hero entites, see "Entities and Enemies Compendium"....Many different character types are appropriate for the Horror Hero genre: The Professor: This character type is learned, generally having many INT based skills, while sacrificing combat ability. The Detective/'Police Officer: This type of character generally is competent with firearms and in hand to hand combat, abilities sure to have some use. But this character type is truly defined by its ability to use inductive and deductive reasoning to solve mysteries. The Dilettante: Ranging from the studious benefactor of a wealthy family, with an interest in the occult, to the drunken ner-do-well, the Dilettante is defined by his eclectic mix of abilties and skills, and excellent access to cash.... Weapons may or may not harm entities encoutered as antagonists...When designing Horror scenarios, it is useful to determine what average outcome is to be expected in your Horror campaign. These may be categorized as follows: Optimistic Outcome: Heroes triumph over the supernatural antagonist(s); Pessimistic Outcome: Heroes are overcome by the Supernatural antagonist(s)"

 

Multiply this times about 500, and you'll have your Horror Hero...

[Katherine]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

"And I don't feel the genre books are done. I'm very excited about Horror Hero and Pulp Hero. But that's probably not what you meant."

 

Here's a likely preview of Horror Hero:

 

"The Horror genre encompasses many sub-genres, all of which contain elements of fear, the bizzare, and confronting the unknown. Suspense is a key element to any Horror game...In the Horror genre, the supernatural may play a large part. The supernatural may include ghosts, devils, demand, spirits, and other forces beyond the ken of traditional human knowlege....Many different character types are appropriate for the Horror Hero genre: The Professor: This character type is learned, generally having many INT based skills, while sacrificing combat ability. The Detective/'Police Officer: This type of character generally is competent with firearms and in hand to hand combat, abilities sure to have some use. But this character type is truly defined by its ability to use inductive and deductive reasoning to solve mysteries. The Dilettante: Ranging from the studious benefactor of a wealthy family, with an interest in the occult, to the drunken ner-do-well, the Dilettante is defined by his eclectic mix of abilties and skills, and excellent access to cash.... Weapons may or may not harm entities encoutered as antagonists...When designing Horror scenarios, it is useful to determine what average outcome is to be expected in your Horror campaign. These may be categorized as follows: Optimistic Outcome: Heroes triumph over the supernatural antagonist(s); Pessimistic Outcome: Heroes are overcome by the Supernatural antagonist(s)"

 

Multiply this times about 500, and you'll have your Horror Hero...

 

Gee. I get the impression you don't like genre books. I do. I'm glad you know everything there is to know about creating Horror/Pulp/Victorian/etc stories in rpgs and how to so with Hero rules. You don't need them. Can the rest of poor idiots have our book, please?

 

God Forbid someone like and find useful something you don't.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

"And I don't feel the genre books are done. I'm very excited about Horror Hero and Pulp Hero. But that's probably not what you meant."

 

Here's a likely preview of Horror Hero:

 

"The Horror genre encompasses many sub-genres, all of which contain elements of fear, the bizzare, and confronting the unknown. Suspense is a key element to any Horror game...In the Horror genre, the supernatural may play a large part. The supernatural may include ghosts, devils, demons, spirits, and other forces beyond the ken of traditional human knowlege...for a complete listing of approved Horror Hero entites, see "Entities and Enemies Compendium"....Many different character types are appropriate for the Horror Hero genre: The Professor: This character type is learned, generally having many INT based skills, while sacrificing combat ability. The Detective/'Police Officer: This type of character generally is competent with firearms and in hand to hand combat, abilities sure to have some use. But this character type is truly defined by its ability to use inductive and deductive reasoning to solve mysteries. The Dilettante: Ranging from the studious benefactor of a wealthy family, with an interest in the occult, to the drunken ner-do-well, the Dilettante is defined by his eclectic mix of abilties and skills, and excellent access to cash.... Weapons may or may not harm entities encoutered as antagonists...When designing Horror scenarios, it is useful to determine what average outcome is to be expected in your Horror campaign. These may be categorized as follows: Optimistic Outcome: Heroes triumph over the supernatural antagonist(s); Pessimistic Outcome: Heroes are overcome by the Supernatural antagonist(s)"

 

Multiply this times about 500, and you'll have your Horror Hero...

 

 

 

SNORT! This was a little rude in tone... but damn, that is PERFECT. I'll rep you when I can.

[atlascott]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

Im sorry, Katherine, I was just joking around! I own AW and TE and Fantasy HERO and STAR HERO!!! Im just being a rotten snot!

[Katherine]

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

 

That was uncalled for cheap shot. So I was "putting words in people's mouths"?